SMG Bleeder Build - A horrible or a great idea?

[Bjorn]

I am getting more and more familiar with the game mechanics, and had an idea.

Idea:
What about making a build, that uses SMG loaded with Micro-Schrapnel Rounds, to make all the bleeding-counters. Then utilizing feats like "Taste for Blood" and "Eviscerate" to end them rightly.


As far as I can figure, a good SMG-build would need high Dex, which synergizes well with a knife-melee build.
With a Dex in the 14-16 range, one should be able to make SMG Bursts at 12-14 AP per burst. And since each Micro-Schrapnel bullet hitting has a 50% chance of inlficting a bleeding wound, it should be possible to quickly stack up A LOT of bleeding wounds on your targets.

A bit of guessing numbers:
Taste for Blood is a nice feat, but the overkill is Eviscerate, which gives a 50% damage bonus per bleeding wound on target.
Lets say you fire 3 bursts with each 7 bullets, 21 Bullets total. If we assume that around 14 of them hits. That would then in average inflict 7 bleeding wounds. Ending that off with an eviscerate, you would get a 350% Bonus Damage, which is not too shabby.
Plus... keep in mind that other enemies might get hit in the cone of fire as well, also receiving bleeding wounds.

I havent figured out the whole build yet, but what do you guys think. Is it a great idea? Or a Horrible Idea?
(And if it is a horrible idea, then why? What have I missed?)

[Megaost]

Horrible? Great? I don't know about that.

Tell you what though, the idea is cool, and that, to me, is all that matters.

I'm already finished with work for the week, so I'm going to start a new character with this build and see how it goes!

[Bjorn]

Thats cool 
I am happy to hear, that my idea inspired you.

I am curious, how are you planning your build? (Especially on the stat distribution.)
10 +lvl ups Dex is obvious, as it heavily affects the amount of attacks you can do.
at least 6 Agility is vital for the Spec Ops feat, also increasing amount of bursts you can do in a round.
Perception for the gun skill (though since it is a melee hybrid you can get pretty close to enemies, which will make them easier to hit, so exactly how high, I dont know)
But the rest... talk about tough choices.
Should you go 7 strength for the Full Auto feat (going from 7 bullets per burst to 9 bullets per burst). It is neat, but is it worth 4 stat points?
How much Constitution can you squeeze out? should you get a bit, or go full-on glass canon.
Ooooh the choices.

I finally found the Micro-shrapnel Bullet blueprint on my Super-tank Assault rifle build, so I think I am going to try it out a bit with the assault rifle, to see how the bullets actually behaves practically. Probably I am going to finish the game with this build, before playing around with a bleeder build though, I am curious to see the end game area, and what challenges lies ahead.

Also... let me know, how the build works out.

And now we are at it, does anyone know a vendor, or a place where you can for sure get the micro shrapnel bullet blueprint?
(Quite important, since the whole build depends on it)

And does anyone know if the end boss can get bleeding wounds?
(Because if it can... then think 2-3 rounds worth of bleeds-stacking with the SMG, and then ending off with an eviscerate )

[Tygrende]

Jut to help you guys out, the Protectorate trader from Fort Apogee always sells micro-shrapnel bullets blueprint, so it would be a good idea to join them as soon as possible.

[Bjorn]

Hi Tygrende

Cool 
Thanks for the tip!

I guess this means it is most practical to join the protectorate for this build then.

[Megaost]

Bjorn!
I'll admit I got a little sidetracked. I have never gone a dex+knife build, so while you seem a bit more focused on the SMG side of things, I am busy stabbing things for now. Currently level 6 right before Old Junkyard, with this stat allocation:

Str: 3(Dump stat)
Dex: 11(self explanatory)
Agi 8(wanted to buff dodge/evasion, seem to recall some traits requiring 8, might be wrong, wasn't meticulous with this build)
Con: 5(I just feel uneasy with too low constitution)
Per: 4(just to avoid skill penalty on guns)
Will: 3(dump stat)
Int: 7(crafting)

Current feats:

Nimble
Recklessness(I can't remember why I started turning this into a crit build, but I did)
Skinner
Weaponsmith (those knives)
Uncanny Dodge

Even though this build went a bit all over the place from the original idea, I will still go down the bleed route, as I have wanted to try that kind of build for long. So far though I very much enjoy stabbing things, and this is my first high-agi build without stealth. I chose to cut stealth because I end up getting it on everything most of the time. I just wanted a break and to try a more straight up combat oriented non con/str based character.

My plan forward is really just to dump every stat into dex, and pick up all bleeding related talents, with a focus on melee (again because I havent played with knives all that much and it is a refreshing change.)

I'll say this though: If there's one annoying thing so far it's robots. They seem to hit most of the time despite of my high evasion (possibly due to me being in melee range often) and both knife and SMG struggle with penetrating their armor. All in all this build so far reminds me a bit of full-psiker (my first build). Strong against everything but robots.

Alternate route to make robots less annoying is to skip Nimble and go for heavier armor. Especially with meager constitution and no stealth this might have been the right thing to do from the get-go, but I am not a patient man, so I scrambled together my idea of a knife/smg char and ran with it. 

[Bjorn]

Well, I am wondering wether you actually need a high Perception for the SMG anyways. When it is done as a melee/SMG combo I guess you should be able to get pretty damn close to the enemies, and thus making it easier to hit.

I have been looking through some of the feats in regards to your stat allocation, and as I can see there is:
Uncanny Dodge, requires 8 Agility. (VERY, VERY useful against sledgehammer opponents.) which you did take.
Hit and Run, requires 7 Agility, which SEEMS very useful for a fast-attack melee build.
Aimed Shot requires 6 Perception (which you dont have), but seems quite unnecesary for this build anyways.
Suppresive Fire also requires 6 Perception, this could be useful, but not vital. So I guess not so important.
Kneepcap Shot requires 7 Perception. It gives a bleeding wound on the target, but then again, it is just 1! bleeding wound, compared to the Burst fire giving potentially A LOT more. Not worth 3 stat points.
Cheap Shots, 6 Dex and 5 Int, giving Melee +50% crit damage, and 15% chance to incapacitate, very useful for this.
Expose Weakness, 5 Int, VERY usefull actually for a tough enemy. Build a ton of bleed stacks, then use Expose Weakness to lower their mechanical resistance, and then WHAM it with the Eviscerate!
Spec Ops, requires 6 agility, and cuts 1/3 of AP cost from SMG burst, so vital.

Soe... as far as I can see, you dont loose much but only having 4 Perception. The only thing I am curious about, which will only really show up as you start playing the build, is if the 4 Perception gives enough %to hit with the SMG. If it does, it makes sense only keeping it at 4. Since we mostly use the SMG to apply Bleeding Stacks, the actual damage done by the SMG is not so important. So as long as we can hit stuff, we are good.

I agree with keeping the Con on at least 5, so you dont end up with a glass cannon.

On the Robots, what I usually do with the early, bullet-shooting robots, is to craft a good Tactical Vest, with a nice Damage Threshold against bullets, making me immune to their attack. Then I can take my sweet time in slowly chipping away their HP. Sometimes horribly slowly, but it gets the job done. Also I like Expose Weakness against robots, makes it possible to suddenly hurt them with melee.