Are energy pistols as gimp as I think they are?

[Hal900x]

Is it just me? I should qualify that being a masochist, and always wanting a challenge, in addition to trying a pure throwing build I also started up an energy pistol character that can't craft, lol. But that said, it does seem to be a hobbled weapon. Laser pistols have low damage, are resisted by shields, and a relatively high AP cost. Plasma have decent damage, but extremely high AP cost (I haven't tried electric weapons as yet). On top of that, several key pistol feats are restricted to firearms only. These guns are exceedingly expensive, especially if you aren't crafting, and many enemies in this game wear armor resistant to heat/cold/electricity, something that is irrelevant to a majority of builds, but not to energy wielders.

The real kicker is the feat limitation. Steadfast Aim seems tailor made for Plasma pistols, but it's quite costly to put 6 strength into a pistol build, and you have to make some hard choices if you want this feat, such as forgoing Practical Physicist or Stealth+Interloper, and losing out on Perception points to get your AP cost low enough to fire more than once per turn.  Steadfast Aim is the only reason to tolerate the very high AP cost of Plasma; other than that, with it's secondary damage types it seems pretty "meh".

[Tygrende]

Energy weapons are pretty decent overall. That said you absolutely need crafting to get the most out of them.

Plasma pistols play very similarly to sniper rifles in that you can stack their critical damage to ridiculously high numbers with an amplifier, practical physicist and critical power. It's entirely possible to one-shot the final boss with a crit execute, or 2-shot him with 2 standard crits.

Electroshock pistols have decent AoE damage and stun to the primary target on top of that. Their critical damage can reach very high numbers as well. That said they work much better as a secondary weapon than a primary.

Sadly laser pistols are unimpressive. They are very comparable to 9mm Neo Luger pistols but simply worse, yes they can stack critical damage high, but plasma pistols are much better for that.

The real kicker is the feat limitation. Steadfast Aim seems tailor made for Plasma pistols, but it's quite costly to put 6 strength into a pistol build, and you have to make some hard choices if you want this feat, such as forgoing Practical Physicist or Stealth+Interloper, and losing out on Perception points to get your AP cost low enough to fire more than once per turn.  Steadfast Aim is the only reason to tolerate the very high AP cost of Plasma; other than that, with it's secondary damage types it seems pretty "meh".

Steadfast Aim is a strange feat. I feel it is intended to be used for high AP pistols (be it .44 hammerer or plasma) but only together with riot gear with a shield. Since riot gear with shield requires 4-6 STR to be used without penalties, the synergy is pretty obvious.

The problem is riot gear is lackluster compared to other options. I can't think of any situation where I wouldn't rather be using infused pig leather armor that is actually a better anti-melee armor than riot gear is, except maybe if I wanted bio protection from the vest, but that's stretching it.

That said 3 point into STR is not that much of a big deal for plasma builds. You only need 11 DEX to shoot twice with point shot, or 13 DEX if you want to shoot 3 times with point shot and adrenaline, that's not too bad. You would need 17 DEX to reduce their AP cost to 25 and shoot twice with regular attacks. While possible, it's hardly worth it. Steadfast Aim is not an absolute must for plasma anyways.

Not getting Interloper is hardly a big deal. The feat is little more than a convenience. Practical Physicist  is almost mandatory for plasma though.

[MirddinEmris]

Laser pistols can have decent overall damage output when you pump your crit chance and crit damage. They also have innate accuracy bonus which is nice, even if small. On the possible damage from one shot plasma pistol is close to sniper rifle. Alpha strike with Aimed Shot form Electroshock pistol against a group of enemies is very powerful also.

Shields are not as big of a problem for an energy weapon user, as it seems to be - due to insane possible crit damage (about 600-700% on the high end) Aimed shot can burn through shield and enemy health like lava through paper bag.

The point about resistances seems strange since electricity, heat and energy are much rarer (and lower) than simple mechanical resistance that is used for other weapons.

[hilf]

The real kicker is the feat limitation.

Yeah. Even if you take Power Management energimps are still way behind firearms in terms of reloading. It's not like there's a belt that lets you insert batteries faster.
I'm not saying PM should not be taken with EWs - you want to suck less, don't you?


Gunslinger used to work with EWs but does no longer for reasons not connected to balance. I'm gonna use this thread for shameless self promotion and link my thread that tries to bring energims/chegimpals back to their former glory*. I hope you don't mind, OP.


* to their post 'pistol overnerf' glory that happened right before game was released. Don't worry i'm not asking for making pistols OP again.

[Hal900x]

Yeah store-bought weapons are just absolute garbage compared to crafted items. I've never had a non-crafting playthrough so I thought I'd give it a shot. But now I'm remembering that each and every ranged weapon in stores has been laughable compared to my crafted weapon in every one of my playthroughs (and there have been many). Mercantile really has no use in the game, nor do weapons on vendors. It's a shame that balance isn't ever going to change in this game. All it really needs in this regard is a slight buff to store-bought, or a slight nerf to crafted items. The gap between the two is so huge that the vendor items are little more than window dressing.

So, what was the reason for energy weapons being removed from Gunslinger, if not balance? It seems to be direly needed. And Steadfast Aim sounded great on paper, and was the reason I wanted to try Plasma. But in practice it's just too much of an outlier in any build. Is Trygrende suggesting to abandon Perception in an energy weapon build that includes it? Where else would it come from in a 13 Dex build?

[Bruno]

When I made a thread and inquired about how the Mercantile skill worked not too long ago, Styg made a promising reply.

Something like:
"Are there any unique special shop items that one can only get by having high Mercantile skill?"
Styg: "Not yet..."

[Hal900x]

I don't think we can expect any balancing until the expansion is finished, but who knows?

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, the addon will likely bring a new economic situation, so it makes sense to balance new feats, items, etc. around it.
Might be more months until then, but it's something to look forward to, no less.

[Styg]

I'm aware that the energy pistols are somewhat lackluster both in efficiency and the fun-factor and I intend to address this at some point. Hopefully I can do this before(/with) the expansion release, but don't hold me to it.