Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13

[Mindless]

Are dodge/evasion builds still viable at dominating difficulty at version 1.0.3.x? Yes. Did it also received a noticeable nerf? Also yes.

That was the reason I have played with 0 dodge/evasion char on DOMINATING difficulty...

[hilf]

Last time i played Deep Caverns threw ~160 quality components at me.

Yeah but DC is just strange and offputting.  You get all the best quality gear there, but you can't access your housing where your +skill buff is so you probably can't make use of that really high-end stuff.  Basically everything about the design of Deep Caverns sabotages your character build, unless you know in advance what to expect and build to it.  That's Bad Design 101.

You're absolutely right that there's high-quality stuff all over DC.  I just feel like it's not reasonable to expect to rely on that stuff for crafting since only very few builds will have the skill to hit those thresholds without the housing bonus, so ultimately you just end up with a bunch of stuff to play with when you get back from visiting Tchort.  If you do

Builds that are serious about crafting will be craft in DC from DC componenets. If players can raise their combat abilities to 200 or 300 then why not rise crafting to 150? Or even 135 as some items can be crafted with only that much skill using q165 components.

My problem with DC is that components can roll very low quality, like 10. This is useless and decreases chance to get something you would actually use for crafting.

More things:
- Super steel itself can still be rolled with 160 so items that need it directly or SS sheets are ahead of others (before DC).
- Infused leather needs not only SS but also a skin.
- As Styg said expansion will need higher skill checks, particularly for crafting. Does it mean infused leather quality will be reverted or will there be Super Duper Infused Leather to craft instead?

[destroyor]

Well just did the elevator fight, at evasion 181 (Level 25, 7 AGI, max evasion skill, wearing infused pig leather tabi, padded infused rathound leather armor, 15% armor penalty) I can say dodge/evasion build received a slight but noticeable nerf at dominating difficulty. Previously on hard, version 1.0.2.x, with a very similar setup (higher dodge/evasion bonus from infused leather) I'm pretty much safe from almost all ranged attack. This time around I would get hit occasionally. One thing of note is my char was killed at full health by a burst (shield was down from other damage) from Faceless which never happened before.

Wow, that sounds impressive. Were you targeted with many missed ranged attacks or were the faceless just focusing on other targets?

You see, I thought this dominating & defense skills situation would be at its absolute worst with faceless ever since they got battle trance. Instead of 130%, they basically have 260% of their normal offensive skills. This is far greater hit to defense skills than anything else on dominating, especially if someone wants to fight them in DC.

Faceless were focusing on other targets. However I did stick around 2 ~ 3 turns after all Tchortists died (because of greed, been looting Faceless corpses in an attempt to farm oddity) and I evaded most of the ranged attacks. I did died a couple times due to burst (once)/psi. Keep in mind I was using jumping bean and most likely staying well outside their weapons' optimal range (hit and run ftw).

@epeli - been reading the threads on RPG codex, just to be clear I'm at DC dominating difficulty but I haven't finish the game yet. The reason I said "dodge/evasion builds are still viable but received a slight but noticeable nerf" was because my char been successful evading most of the aimed shot from npc snipers/shock bolt from npc xbowers throughout the game so far. However you can't just blindly quote me on this and deem dodge/evasion builds are viable at dominating difficulty. I do plan on testing dodge/evasion extensively at dominating difficulty later w/ a psi monk build after I finish this energy weapon char. Until then, please take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, ok maybe a bag of salt would be better.

[Mindless]

BTW, I've killed a bit of faceless in the Blockade(oddity farming) and Elevator fight and couldn't pass the Mindreading procedure in DC with new changes =(

[Hazard]

Elevator fight shouldn't affect the mindreading outcome, but killing Faceless at the blockade and other avoidable places does.

Epeli, do you happen to have any info regarding Expedition difficulty if it's played after returning from DC?

[hilf]

On hard difficulty EMP will drain energy (and subsequently deal damage to the holder) from all items in the inventory (not just equipped ones)

This calls for old Power Management - 35% less energy usage or 35% more energy, if lesser cost is not possible.
Or maybe it is possible to give energy shields reduced cost as well? Something like Damage Reduction mechanism that is currently protecting health bar, but for energy shield.
I want Power Management, not Die Faster To EMP Nades Management


Does anyone know if killing Faceless in a cave near CC makes mindreader in DC angry?
It should not because they are attacking you on sight unlike group near Foundry so you are just self-defending.

[destroyor]

Spoiler alert! Do not read if you never made it past the elevator fight.










Guys I need a confirmation here: Does creeping dread/Eye of Tchort debuff seems to stack faster on dominating difficulty for you?

This is either my memory playing trick on me or the debuff stack speed was increased in this patch. I remember being able to explore a couple blocks before having to hide in a safe spot before. Right now I can barely walk one block before creeping dread turns into Eye of Tchort. Yes, I'm using Cheat Engine speed hack. Yes, I tested and re-tested this with and without Cheat Engine and it has nothing to do with the rate debuff stacks. I don't remember being this annoyed by this in my previous DC runs. This is not even hard or difficult, just pure annoyance - Tchortlings would constantly show up, kill them in 1 ~ 3 shots from my laser and their reinforcements would lock me into a 10 min mini battle which is neither difficult nor resource draining (you waste a couple of my batteries and stims, gold star for you Tchort).

Please take a look at the rate creeping dread/Eye of Tchort stacks and slow it down a bit. Thank you.

[Mindless]

Guys I need a confirmation here: Does creeping dread/Eye of Tchort debuff seems to stack faster on dominating difficulty for you?

Faster from my observations or mb Styg changed debuff rate on all difficulties.

[hilf]

edit:

Does anyone know if killing Faceless in a cave near CC makes mindreader in DC angry?
It should not because they are attacking you on sight unlike group near Foundry so you are just self-defending.

Would you get angry if someone killed your family--in self-defense? I am not a faceless lawyer, but all kills (except during the invasion) count for something.

Tough question as i don't have anyone in military.

Spoilers ahead!






I just wanted to inform group near CC they can go home, just like i did with Foundry group. If mindreaded is worthy of his name he should know this. I don't know why Faceless would get angry about killing them (unprovoked) near CC but not during elevator fight, not counting gameplay reasons.
Actually they have more reasons to be mad at you for fighting them near elevator.
Are they mad for killing them at West Wing?

BTW what's the deal with this absurdly strong bias towards Faceless? It was already strong before 1.0.3 but now it's just... i don't know. It manifests itself in so many ways i can't be bothered to list them all so i'll just mention infinite respawns and Bakers quest. I guess they must be the good guys.

[Hazard]

Why would any of the Faceless surrounding Core City want to leave? They're looking for the cube after all, and all leads point to it being in Core City, especially if the player talks to them in Rail Crossing and near Foundry.

You could argue that in all other possible battles with the Faceless except the elevator one, the player character can run away instead of fighting in order to survive. That's probably why the Mindreader in DC doesn't consider that particular engagement as a hostile act. It's a shaky argument, but there's hardly anything else apart from gameplay reasons, so...

[hilf]

Spoilers time!





After you witness Tchortists stealing cube you know it's no longer in Core City.
"Hi guys, you can move on since item you're looking for is no longer... what the heck?! You wanna fight? Great choice as i am the Invictus and Invictus never runs away!"

My interpretation of conversation with Faceless in West Wing and elevator fight:
Faceless: "Hi player. We're going to kill everyone in this place including you if you won't leave."
Player: "Why, thanks for the warning, man. But i'd rather stay here to fight hand in hand with your archenemy and kill as many of you as i can before proceeding with my business in Deep Caverns."

[Tygrende]

I wouldn't mind if the kills during the elevator fight counted as well, it's rather easy to just stay out of the fight and wait until the elevator comes, even if tchortists are hostile.

[Hazard]

Spoilers time!





After you witness Tchortists stealing cube you know it's no longer in Core City.
"Hi guys, you can move on since item you're looking for is no longer... what the heck?! You wanna fight? Great choice as i am the Invictus and Invictus never runs away!"

My interpretation of conversation with Faceless in West Wing and elevator fight:
Faceless: "Hi player. We're going to kill everyone in this place including you if you won't leave."
Player: "Why, thanks for the warning, man. But i'd rather stay here to fight hand in hand with your archenemy and kill as many of you as i can before proceeding with my business in Deep Caverns."

The Faceless shooting on sight is a different issue, though. AFAIK, lore-wise the Faceless are supposed to be somewhat unpredictable: I think it's Old Jonas who advises the player to steer clear of small bands of Faceless, since those tend to be more dangerous/prone to attacking than larger groups. That said, if you go through the Oligarchy questline and only after that speak with the Mindreader in Rail Crossing... That should probably have a pretty big impact on the Faceless, and I'm not sure if the game recognizes this possibility at all.

As for the friendly Faceless... well, yeah. You won't encounter him if you didn't help him in Core City, but if you did do that, it does make the whole Institute assault and elevator fight pretty weird. Giving the player a choice to temporarily side with the Faceless, or leave and either hide during the battle or fight alongside the Tchortists (hostile Faceless, but if you don't attack them you don't get any penalty to your reputation) would probably make more sense.

This choice could even be the fourth main deciding factor in whether or not the Faceless in DC decide to ally with the player. If you screwed up in Rail Crossing, but helped the Faceless near Foundry and in Core City and then fought the Tchortists, the Mindreader would still consider you as a friend. You could even go back to the Tchortists in DC, since as far as I remember, nobody actually made it down from the Institute apart from the player, and thus the Cytosine Outpost garrison wouldn't have any idea you betrayed them before.

[Hal900x]

Wow! Time for my ~100th playthrough! I was waiting for the expansion but looks like I will finally have to try chem pistols. I agree about the uniques nerfs though...why nerf power fist/jawbone? These become disposable quite early, for a crafter. Speaking of which, this game really needs some tweaks to allow for a non-crafter game. I suggest a major change to Mercantile skill. Not just more random items selection (mainly components) on merchants, but more powerful completed gear.

[Fenix]

Chem pistols are good - playing now with 3 Con build on DOMINATION, can confirm.
Also, tips - acid don't hurt big mutants in Deport A, but do hurt mutated dogs - it help to conserve ammo.