Chemical suggestions

[hilf]

My chemical belts observations:
1. Pyro and acid pistols benefit from chem belts more than cryo because they have DOTs. Additionally, acidgun produces puddles.
2. Cryo pistol has dual damage type but belt only applies debuff for cold. Because of this not all of cryogun damage benefits from debuff.
3. Cryo debuff synergizes less than others. The only other reasonable cold dmg source is Metathermics. For acid there are 9mm pistols, ARs and xbow bolts, and don't get me started on sources of fire damage. There are also traps but cold damage on them is lowest. Unique chemgun is of acid type.
4. Damage amplification is applied before DOT so it also gets removed before DOT ticks for second time.

I think cold pistol could use some love. Some options:
a) Make belt amplify mechanical damage as well. This is pretty risky so i'd rather avoid.
b) Turn all of cryogun damage to cold. Not much but always something. It would explain why belt does not amplify mechanical damage.
c) Add some kind of a cold DOT. This DOT could be used in other cold damage sources as well.

I was surprised when second tick of fire DOT was not amplified by debuff. Is it possible to apply debuff after DOT? It should solve this problem. Other option is to extend belt debuff duration to 3 turns but this could affect balance unnecessarily.

Chemical ammo is damn heavy, 2.5 times heavier than biggest bullets. Some weight reduction, perhaps?

Other observations:
Chemgun damage feels serious now, at least on Hard.
I like Cooked Shot. Good for spawn killing (pun intended).
Using Kneecap Shot with cryo pistol will not apply Vile Weaponry debuff. If cryogun is not a cold weapon, i don't know what is :p

[Hazard]

If cryogun is not a cold weapon, i don't know what is :p

Cold weapon essentially means melee weapon. "Cold" as in not a firearm or an explosive. Which, if taken literally, could obviously also denote things like bows and chemical throwers.

[Mindless]

My ranking of chemical weapon based on it's usefulness: Acid > Cryo > Pyro.
Regardless your observations about cryo pistol, it's more useful than pyro(from my testing, i usually shuffle all 3 depending on situation). Many human enemies immune to burning effect(Aluminized Cloth) making it utterly useless. Cryo have best AOE that usually freezes half of enemies and highest base damage(even with dual damage type it's doing pretty well).

Some points you may consider:
Rooting and Freezing enemies therefore making them unable to evade attacks, panic from burning don't have this one advantage and can even do some "tactical" harm.
Acid and Cold damage usually less resistant than fire. Acid is your only way to deal with robots/turrets from your chemical arsenal =]
Pyro have very little base damage without it's burning effect
Pyro Catalyzing Belt effect have great synergy with grenades(HE and Incendiary)
Cold stacking debuff is very efficient weapon against melee boss enemies on DOMINATING difficulty, you don't need to "pray random Godness" for % based debuffs.

So, In my opinion cryo pistol is already nice weapon, which I use constantly.
P.S. Sadly Acid damage will lose it's 1st place in the Endgame(DC).

[hilf]

Tchort is evolution, Mindless.

I'm aware cryogun is nice, i was using it alongside other chem pistols before they were buffed. In fact, Arena spectators named me Mr Freeze
I was focusing specifically on how belts affect different chemical pistols and cryo got short end of the stick here. But thanks for input, broader perspective is always good.

There is one more problem:
5. with Mad Chemist iceblock lasts 2 turns and belt debuff will wear off together with CC. You often don't want to attack CCed enemies so cold damage amplification will be wasted.
Increasing debuff duration to 3 turns would solve it as well as DOT problem described in my first post.

Tchort guide You.

[Benjibibi]

I particularly agree with your fourth point, I would argue that it's almost a bug since the DOT and the damage buff are said to be applied for 2 turns, and you don't benefit it during the second turn. (just changing the order of application of the status effect would do the trick)

Pyro gun without burning effect is not very good, but with it the synergy with the new belt is almost too good IMO

base damage : 100 et proc burning
without belt:
100 damage + burning effect for 300% more over 2 turns =400 dmg

with the 2 stack of belt debuff:
150 damage + burning effect for 300% more over 2 turns = 712.5 total dmg without refreshing the debuff, 825dmg if you refresh the debuff
Because the base damage of the burning effect is calculated form the damage the ennemy actually suffer (with the buff) and when it is applied at the end of the char turn, the buff is applied on top of that buffed value (1.5*1.5=2.25)
And if you add just 5 stacks of contaminated debuff then it's up to 1750 total dmg just from the same 100 base dmg. A 4x multiplier become a 17x multiplier with two 0,5x dmg buff.

also work with acid gun but not as good since DOT is less frequent and less damaging.

I definitely need to try a chemical pistol (cooked shot)/thermo psi build, this game is so cool with all those synergy and viable build ! quick question : For Cryogenic Induction, do you think the freezing status from cryo gun should count as "caught in your cryostasis" ?

[hilf]

I definitely need to try a chemical pistol (cooked shot)/thermo psi build, this game is so cool with all those synergy and viable build ! quick question : For Cryogenic Induction, do you think the freezing status from cryo gun should count as "caught in your cryostasis" ?

I'm usually for making things more general so i'd say it should.
Sure, adding synergies has no small potential for breaking games but in this case i'd give it a try since doing chem pistols + metathermics, or PSI in general, is problematic:
- PSIker wants WIL while chem pistols want PER and especially DEX. Fortunately both builds want some INT but attribute requirements are still pretty harsh. Not to mention AGI and CON.
- Fire and ice don't mix well.

Lore is another consideration but i can't help here. You need to bug Styg.

Pyro pistol is all or nothing - if enemy is immune to burn he also sports good fire resistance so pyrogun does nothing. Many human enemies wear fireproof armors.

[Benjibibi]

Pyro pistol is all or nothing - if enemy is immune to burn he also sports good fire resistance so pyrogun does nothing. Many human enemies wear fireproof armors.

Definitely, but in a game that is mostly about ambushing (IMO) and with the visual cue of fireproof armor, you can choose your weapon accordingly. Most critters aren't fireproof and in my first "dominating" run, i'm a lot more killed by groups of titan azuridae or death stalker than by humans (might be because i'm not used to figthing them) The boulder throwing mutant got me a few time too (they are immune to the fear of burning)

- PSIker wants WIL while chem pistols want PER and especially DEX. Fortunately both builds want some INT but attribute requirements are still pretty harsh. Not to mention AGI and CON.

You're probably right, spreading too much won't work (at least in dominating)
I said cooked shot in particular because I expect to use mostly it, with low perception, hitting a target with a direct shot is unlikely, but cooked shot seems to behave like a grenade throw, enemies are always hit in the area, so it's an easy Aoe CC (root or fear)and dmg buff more than a source of direct damage.
Now that I think about it, does cooked shot depend on your throwing skill for the accuracy of the shot or your Gun skill ?

- Fire and ice don't mix well.

It's a shame, in my opinion robotic enemies and metal armor should be more susceptible to extreme thermal gradient, cold makes metal more brittle (lower mechanical threshold/resistance) and extreme heat cause thermal dilation or overheating (a science-lore friendly debuff is less obvious in this case, let's say it lower action points a bit)

[hilf]

I want to burn spider webs with fire!

[LightningMonk]

I'll agree and add that it would be neat if flames(including psi and incendiary bolt secondary hits) and explosives could destroy web traps.

[hilf]

Because the base damage of the burning effect is calculated form the damage the ennemy actually suffer (with the buff) and when it is applied at the end of the char turn, the buff is applied on top of that buffed value (1.5*1.5=2.25)

The problem is your target is very likely to catch fire on first hit, before he gains belt debuff. DOT from this hit will be calculated from damage unbuffed by belt (it's still amplified by debuff tho).

Stronger DOTs do not replace weaker ones. If 2 first hits do not apply burning and third does then burning DOT will indeed be multiplied by 1.5 twice. But chance for this to happen is minimal.

[Benjibibi]

"Stronger DOTs do not replace weaker ones."

It would make sense that it would, bleeding wounds stack, poisons stack, burning maybe should not stack but at least, it should always consider the strongest burning effect applied.