Underrail > General

Bleed based unarmed build viable for dominating?

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MirddinEmris:

--- Quote from: jubisloviu on January 27, 2018, 02:18:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Twiglard on January 27, 2018, 02:00:04 am ---Stupid question -- how is bleed viable if in most cases you have to ice the guy right in front of you in one turn?

--- End quote ---
That's a good question, bleed is great not just because of the DoT you'll be applying to enemies, but because the more DoT's you apply the more buffs you get out of it, stuff like vile weaponry and taste for blood are great to amplify your damage per turn, and with fists you'll have plenty of ways to stun/incapacitate/lock peoples in place while snowballing out of the debuffs/buffs.

--- End quote ---

For Taste for Blood unarmed character you don't really need anything over simple glove with serrated blade. And not even high quality serrated blade, any one will do since you'll only care about chance of bleed, not the damage, and the chance doesn't change. With just that (and maybe Ripper Glove to start your buff quicker) you already set up to have your maximum buff of 50% damage to be in effect in almost every combat. Same with Vile Weaponry. Also Vile Weaponry is way worse than Taste for Blood, since it applies debuff to an enemy rather than buff to you, so the only thing that you will have "snowballing" is the Taste for Blood and you can get that pretty quickly anyway.

Bleed is bad because it requires you to keep enemies alive for the damage to apply. Incapacitate from Cheap Shots is good, but too inconsistent to make it as a part of planned tactics. Stun from taser is once per 3 turns and cost 10 AP which is about 2.5 times AP you spend per attack on high end, so it is a bit costly, and often easier to just spend those AP to finish the guy.

Overall bleed is not something you should rely on to kill your enemies, it's too suboptimal.

Fenix:
Yeah, bleed can only serve as an auxiliary source of damage, not mine.
It is still minory useful, if you got bleed on pneumatic strike - you likely will get ~30 bleed per turn, and with incapacitation it allow to just forget about those who have ~100 hp left.
But not more.

Twiglard:
May it be the case that there are very few Melee weapon types and none are too useful? Just asking.
I'd rather avoid bleed-causing melee unless it's changing things enough.
With robots, why not have an electricity melee weapon in one hand for those filthy creatures? It won't stun, but the armor resist question becomes pretty moot.


--- Quote from: Fenix on January 27, 2018, 04:16:46 pm ---Yeah, bleed can only serve as an auxiliary source of damage, not mine.
It is still minory useful, if you got bleed on pneumatic strike - you likely will get ~30 bleed per turn, and with incapacitation it allow to just forget about those who have ~100 hp left.

--- End quote ---
Now that'd make Eviscerate deal some serious damage with the right weapon, right? Is Eviscerate a game-changer? The one-turn cooldown looks tasty. What's the typical damage for optimal 120-130+ pneumatic gloves?

Too bad bladed armor doesn't proc on sledgehammers, ha.
Ranged builds have a single-target murder by means of plasma pistol with amplifier. But that depends on crit (either heavy crit build or simply Aimed Shot), and can't be shot twice a turn anyway without Amphetamine Shot...

MirddinEmris:

--- Quote ---Now that'd make Eviscerate deal some serious damage with the right weapon, right? Is Eviscerate a game-changer? The one-turn cooldown looks tasty. What's the typical damage for optimal 120-130+ pneumatic gloves?
--- End quote ---

Eviscerate is not a game changer. First of all, knives have it worse in terms of creating bleeding wounds on an enemy than do combat gloves. First of all, they have require 2-3 AP more per strike, and second, they have 25% chance per strike instead of 35% of bladed glove. Meaning that you create bleeding wounds slower. Also it means that by the time you have enough wounds on an enemy to make Eviscerate do good damage, he is already pretty close to death. Maybe some bosses are exception to this, but it is true in 95% of your playtime. It's not bad, but on my knife user that i finished the game with i skipped it entirely and didn't regret for a moment.


--- Quote ---With robots, why not have an electricity melee weapon in one hand for those filthy creatures? It won't stun, but the armor resist question becomes pretty moot.
--- End quote ---

Electrical damage is very small part of your total damage. It deals relatively small amount of damage in the first place and doesn't get increases from your skills, strength and buffs like Taste for Blood. So electrical damage on your knife/glove is not a good solution for robots (Expose Weakness is).


--- Quote ---Too bad bladed armor doesn't proc on sledgehammers, ha.
--- End quote ---

If you are talking about bleed damage than it would be useless anyway since sledg user spends usually 1-2 strikes on a single target anyway. If you are talking about getting Taste for Blood buff than you can get it anyway since you get 1 stack from killing someone with melee attack. I usually take it for all my sledg builds.


--- Quote ---May it be the case that there are very few Melee weapon types and none are too useful? Just asking.
--- End quote ---

Properly built unarmed character is in the top tier along with smg and sniper rifle. Sledgehammer is a solid weapon, on par with things like assault rifles. Knives do struggle compared to the rest of the melee, since they are watered down version of unarmed in a lot of ways.

Hazard:

--- Quote from: MirddinEmris on January 28, 2018, 08:12:33 am ---Properly built unarmed character is in the top tier along with smg and sniper rifle. Sledgehammer is a solid weapon, on par with things like assault rifles.
--- End quote ---
Offtopic, but care to elaborate why you consider ARs worse than SMGs and SRs?

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