Author Topic: Make detection a skill  (Read 3133 times)

blaa

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Make detection a skill
« on: August 13, 2018, 03:48:22 pm »
I really dislike that you need to have high perception to find secrets, it

blaa

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 03:52:16 pm »
WTF is wrong with this forum? Two captchas to open a thread and then it simply cuts the text mid sentence!  >:(

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Its a huge disadvantage to non-gun users that perception is used to find secrets, not only because of the loot, but also because finding secrets is fun!
It would be much better if there was a detection skill that is influenced by perception.

Options:

- New skill for secret detection
- Bundle trap detection and secret detection and make it have really high synergy with trap laying
- Other variation
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:55:30 pm by blaa »

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2018, 01:26:08 am »
You can find *most* of the secrets in the game with 4 Perception, Snooping feat, and goggles.  That's not too high a price to pay.  The way it is now, you can get 80% of the secrets in the game with nearly no investment in Perception; then, on another play-through, you can find them all with a ranged character.  Like many things about UnderRail, you need to really min/max if you want to optimize what you get out of it; however, you can still just play the way you like.  The game is permissive enough to let you win almost no matter how you like to play.

The forum cuts off lines when you use certain break characters.

LJ40

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 02:01:02 am »
The very concept of perception ties directly into the ability to detect things. Having really low perception should *ABSOLUTELY* stop you from detecting things, barring additional help (Snooping and goggles, as TheAverageGortsby said).

blaa

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 10:49:47 am »
The very concept of perception ties directly into the ability to detect things. Having really low perception should *ABSOLUTELY* stop you from detecting things, barring additional help (Snooping and goggles, as TheAverageGortsby said).

The same could be said about *any* attribute relating to a skill. A dumbass should not be able to figure out chemistry, yet even with int 3 you can invest points if you want. A clumsy person without agility should not be able to sneak, yet you can still invest in that skill. So it is not as *ABSOLUTE* as you claim.

@Gortsby: I would be fine with it if you could get 100% of secrets without per investment. Maybe detection goggles could count higher for the purpose of secret detection, just like snoop?
What about this:

3 base PER
+ 4 PER by snooping (instead of 3)
+ 1 PER by goggles as usual, but +4 for the purpose of secret detection

Then you could arrive at the needed +11 without any investment in PER. Investing in a perk and sacrificing the head gear slot(or switch all the time) seems like a fair trade-off.

Personally, I still think a skill would be better though.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 11:03:04 am by blaa »

Fenix

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2018, 01:28:24 am »
Quote
strength checks for moving heavy stuff

Whaaaaaat? There is such check in game?

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2018, 02:58:28 am »
The detection benefits against both stealthed enemies and traps are very good. Might even save a feat point, if you would otherwise take Paranoia.
:o Take Paranoia for the detection benefits? What madness is this?!?  ;)

MirddinEmris

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2018, 05:53:47 pm »
Generally i'm against nerfs. And removing checks from Perception to skills is a nerf, since it's much easier to make room for a skill than for generous amount of attribute points.

Besides, making something available to almost any char makes that something much less rare or precious, meaning your experience will vary less between different character builds. And finding secrets will be less enjoyable. That is usually a bad thing, from my perspective.

Instead i believe that other attributes should be buffed in that regard. More checks of Agility to get in some places, more checks for Strength to move something out of the way or break it, more Int checks to figure how to get in somewhere or something like that. Some of those should be accessible  through that attribute check only. That would make the game more unique in each run and still give you fun of finding secrets.

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Make detection a skill
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2018, 05:11:35 am »
Instead i believe that other attributes should be buffed in that regard. More checks of Agility to get in some places, more checks for Strength to move something out of the way or break it, more Int checks to figure how to get in somewhere or something like that.
Instead of lowering the threshold to find solutions to environmental obstacles, it could be neat to expand the solution set.  For example, that Agility check really early on in the caves outside SGS, you know?  Instead of needing 7 AGI(was it 8?) or else you fail, for that one, where the rocks are loose, a check against, say, 5AGI(or 6, whatever) plus 6DEX to see if your hands are dexterous enough to grab handholds, could also allow success.

Of course, that would just mean more work for the dev team, and the payoff might not be all that high.  But there's a middle ground between keeping things as they are and removing the bar entirely.  Still plenty of opportunities to fail a challenge, but expanding the solution set does increase the odds that a random player gets to see some stuff in a single playthrough.  Those of us who've played it six, eight, ten times - well, we're way out on the edge of the distribution curve, so probably don't balance things for us :P

The expansion will probably expand the options for secret discovery, but a perceptive character will always be the most convenient option
Truthfully, I'd be surprised if Specialization: Snooping isn't a thing.  We've already seen that specializations will modify our existing feats.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 06:52:34 pm by TheAverageGortsby »