What will be your first build in Expedition and why?

[Tamior]

[can you deal 70% of HP via implosion, and then buff it to 200%+ of that via Entropic Recurrence on the spot? So basically anything with mech resistance <60% will just insta-die no-matter-what?

No. ER is an end-of-turn DoT, and the damage is smeared pretty wide (it was originally far too powerful and was brought back into the realm of reason - it *used to be possible* to do as you describe, but no longer).  Still, if you ER a good heavy Implosion/TK Punch you certainly can put a lethal DoT on the target, then just go run away and let them die off on their own.  For one-turn kills, you're still probably better off with a Proxied Implosion on your main target, then maybe a ThermoD from a secondary target or if your main target is alone, use that Proxy again for a TK Punch.

EDIT: Let me make an amendment, here, but leave the original post since I don't hide my mistakes   If you can get a *single* Implosion to do over 50% (second edit: not 40, 50 - typo) of the target health, and you proxy the Implosion, and ER that, then the target should die at the end of their following turn, so if you would call that insta-die then absolutely yes, and I was wrong to say no.

OK, I'm tired enough that I'm confusing myself.  Basically, ER will kill an enemy after they've taken their turn.  It will not apply damage at the end of the turn when you apply it, so if ER is going to kill an enemy they will always get a turn before they die, no matter what.  I'm going to take a nap before I confuse anyone else - myself included - any further 

You are being pretty clear, don't worry.

Anyway, as far as I understand, if you have fully specced cryogenic induction, target will shatter if you deal 30%+ of remaining health. So a 70% implosion will shatter anyone with mech resistance <58%. Is that correct, or is there anything I'm missing here?

[TheAverageGortsby]

Anyway, as far as I understand, if you have fully specced cryogenic induction, target will shatter if you deal 30%+ of remaining health. So a 70% implosion will shatter anyone with mech resistance <58%. Is that correct, or is there anything I'm missing here?

Seems to be the case. Hopped in the game and checked it out; since i don't use CE or any file mods I can't tightly control things but post-DR hits around 33-35% of total target health were shattering the heavily armored Praetorian Enforcers in Core City.  Seems reliable.

I'm not confident it's a trick I'd use all that terribly often. On lower difficulty levels, direct damage will kill most anything; on higher difficulty levels, I suspect I'll continue to find real value in AoE like LoC+ability or fireball/iceball/ThermoD.  But, especially for psi builds that also pick up Expose Weakness, you may have a highly reliable way to handle like Industrial Bots (edit: if they can be cryostasis'ed with CI; I really don't remember) and Balor very quickly, with a 4/4 CI spec.  I don't normally use CI; thanks for making me think about it =)

[Tamior]

Anyway, as far as I understand, if you have fully specced cryogenic induction, target will shatter if you deal 30%+ of remaining health. So a 70% implosion will shatter anyone with mech resistance <58%. Is that correct, or is there anything I'm missing here?

Seems to be the case. Hopped in the game and checked it out; since i don't use CE or any file mods I can't tightly control things but post-DR hits around 33-35% of total target health were shattering the heavily armored Praetorian Enforcers in Core City.  Seems reliable.

I'm not confident it's a trick I'd use all that terribly often. On lower difficulty levels, direct damage will kill most anything; on higher difficulty levels, I suspect I'll continue to find real value in AoE like LoC+ability or fireball/iceball/ThermoD.  But, especially for psi builds that also pick up Expose Weakness, you may have a highly reliable way to handle like Industrial Bots (edit: if they can be cryostasis'ed with CI; I really don't remember) and Balor very quickly, with a 4/4 CI spec.  I don't normally use CI; thanks for making me think about it =)

But wait, there's  more!
Namely: does Entropic Recurrence deal the same TYPE of damage as original damage?
If it does, would it be possible to go implosion-> Entropic Recurrence for 200%+-> Cryostasis with 4/4 CI?
And thus shatter anything with mech resistance of <82%?

[TheAverageGortsby]

But wait, there's  more!
Namely: does Entropic Recurrence deal the same TYPE of damage as original damage?
If it does, would it be possible to go implosion-> Entropic Recurrence for 200%+-> Cryostasis with 4/4 CI?
And thus shatter anything with mech resistance of <82%?

Yes, it deals the same damage type.  Yes, if you proxy a capped Implosion you can shatter an opponent with the ER echo, but it will only be doing ~50% of the damage that the *second* Implosion did (per tick), so it doesn't work quite as astoundingly as you seem to be describing if I get your drift.

So, you've got 82% DR and I hit you with a proxied Implosion.
Implosion #1 does (0.75x0.18) or 13.5% of your max health
Implosion #2 does ((0.75.x0.18)x0.865) or ~11.7% of your max health.
If I then place an ER on you it will do ~6.8% of your max health per turn; in terms of current health, that would be roughly (100/(100-13.5-11.7))x0.068 or 9% of your current health with its first tick, breaking Cryostasis with no additional effect.  Clearly the vastly superior course of action here is to ER a proxied (and hopefully crit) TK Punch after the proxied Implosion.

Now, if I also have Expose Weakness, Implosion starts to shine again.
Now you have either 41% DR or, with 5/5 EW spec, 32.8% DR when I land the proxied Implosion.
Implosion #1 does (0.75x0.59) or (0.75x0.672) which is 44% or ~50% of your max health (assuming EWs hit was so paltry that we can for arguments sake round its damage to 0)
Implosion #2 does (0.44x0.56) or (.5x.5) which is  ~24.6% or ~25% of your max health.
ER then does 12.3-12.5% of your max health per tick, but that represents nearly half of your current health in either case, breaking Cryostasis and shattering you.

I tried to sanity check that arithmetic but if it seems incredibly wrong, it could be.

Last edit: I suspect you see it just fine, but I should point out that with Expose Weakness at 5/5, you no longer need the TK Proxy to get ER kills from Implosion on a cryostasised target at <82% mech resist.  In fact, with both EW 5/5 and CI 4/4, it looks like you can get kills on any enemy in the game that can be frozen in the ice, as even at the DR cap of 95% your ER will still do more than 30% of the targets current health.
(0.95x0.4) = 38% effective mech resist.
(0.75x0.62) = 46.5% total health; (.465x.535) = 24.8775% total health.
ER totals for 240% (at ~360 effective TM skill, which is easily attainable even at 16 Will much less 18) will do .248775x.6 or 14.9265% total life per tick which would be just over half of the total life remaining after the second Implosion.

If my napkin math is correct, this means you could with 5/5 and 4/4 even manage a ER shatter on an enemy with as much health as Carnifex and 95% mech resist while also on Morphine if you followed the Implosion with a Punch and ER'ed that.

[Esgaro]

Well, since the new character builder is up, I can post my full build.

But instead, I'll post the ultimate "kill shit with swords" set-up. 

Any tips for skills/equipment on your build, for somebody who doesn't know much about the game?  Go for dodge?  Crafting types?

[harperfan7]

Any tips for skills/equipment on your build, for somebody who doesn't know much about the game?  Go for dodge?  Crafting types?

The "kill shit with swords" one?  It can dish out damage like crazy once it gets going, but until then (and even then, if you miss an attack and ruin your flurry and onslaught) you're fragile and need backup plans and get-out-of-trouble cards.  It's not as fast as my actual build, so in a sense it's even more fragile, since you often end up relying on doors and corners so much in this game to break line of sight.  Also you really dont want to get hit at higher levels with this build; focus hard on killing your enemies quickly or otherwise not letting them attack you.

I want to suggest that you figure things out yourself and make your own build on your first run, but it's up to you.  I wish I had played blind on my first run. 

If you want to see it anyway, here's the full build.  Be aware there are some teeny spoilers in this image.  A lot of these numbers are very specific, but some are just "good enough" like stealth and traps; if you end up needing extra points somewhere, draw from them.  I'm not even sure what level of traps skill is optimal; you're mainly taking it for trap detection and I don't know what kind of upper numbers you want on that. 



At the beginning, I'd get cave hopper armor and boots (tabis are better if you see any) for the extra speed, then move to a kevlar balaclava and tabis and a sturdy laminated riot gear with a psi shield (but you might find that this makes you too slow; by then you'll have a better idea of what works for you).  When you get super steel, switch to infused rathound leather armor and whichever tabis make the most sense to you (but you could also use boots with boot springs instead at that point when you're not trying to be stealthy; they're faster and dont have a crit penalty), and start using a muffled temp psi headband.  You should have a set of stealth gear on you at all times (black balaclava, soft padded/black cloth leather armor, ninja tabis, and an optional cloaking device); it's up to you if you want to make your main armor/footwear your stealth gear as well.  I think I would, but you might find the other paddings/overcoats to be more generally useful. 

For swords, with a crit chance as high as yours, I'd stick to a curved tungsten for flurries and a curved tichrome for everything else; your choice on generators/emitters; use them if they make sense for you.

I would make root soda and hardcore chips my main food, depending on which makes more sense at the time.  I'd wear a vigorous belt at the beginning and a doctors belt later one, like when you switch to infused leather.  You can make whatever grenades, caltrops, traps, throwing knives, tasers, etc that you need with your crafting skills (depends on how soon you level them).  I relied very heavily on grenades and grenadier on my actual character, but this one doesn't have that and you may not need them like I did.  I also made all my own drugs and heavily used them.   

This might be too much for a new player, but it's the best machete build I can think of. 

[newageofpower]

This might be too much for a new player, but it's the best machete build I can think of.

3 CON on a melee psi build *cringes at the times he died in Dominating* you must be hardcore with the Forcefield/Stasis abuse...

[harperfan7]

This might be too much for a new player, but it's the best machete build I can think of.

3 CON on a melee psi build *cringes at the times he died in Dominating* you must be hardcore with the Forcefield/Stasis abuse...

I haven't actually played this build.  My own doesnt have forcefield and Ive only used stasis a few times.  What I do "abuse" (often rely on) is medications, speed, corners, and grenades.  This build I just posted needs to worry more about move points than con; with a vigorous belt and sturdy riot gear, it's plenty survivable, as long as it can get to where it needs to go most of the time.  It also doesn't have blitz, which mine did.  I use blitz all the damn time. 

Have you tried temp psi yet?  It's great at controlling fights so you don't get hit much.

[Infiltrator]

Im thinking of doing a stealth run, but Im not sure what new toys support it. Knives are better than swords for it. Can you put suppressors on shotguns?

[bati]

No, 5mm only.

[chimaera]

Thanks everyone for the mage advice, lots of interesting info here!
Ended up going with a stealthy cave wizard minus metathermics; maybe it will be a showstopper, but for now he's managing through diplomacy, sneaking, and if all else fails, running away.

[bati]

Why no metathermics? It's the most potent direct damaging aoe skill line the cave wizards have.

[chimaera]

Because I've already played a mage with metathermics. This character is about trying to avoid fighting, so he needs high thief skills including pickpocketing on top of diplomacy. I just wanted something for the times you absolutely need to fight, and from what I remember thought control is a good choice against the final boss. I'm alright with not being able to finish every quest / defeat every baddie in the game.

On a side note, my previous run was just blasting through the opposition, it's kind of funny how you notice more details when stealthing by. Those zerglings burrowers have some mad detection skills, for example.