Author Topic: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check  (Read 6536 times)

zzt

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« on: August 29, 2020, 03:07:05 am »
As I was looking up the wiki I was excited to realize I can make a "proper" Naruto anime-like ninja, with all sorts of mind-affecting "ninjutsu", "shadow clones", throwing knives, etc.
Here's what I've come up with so far: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMQAwMDCggAJQDCoAAAwqA8JgA3WHoXU3XCoAAARg4AXSYxKylCBlwLKkshwoc8EADCs13ChcKt4p2NCuKijAPio7oC378

Features: Strong CC with AoE, 14 Knife attacks per turn for 3 turns, takes full advantage of serrated knives. 53% Crit. Chance (75% with consumables).

I'm considering replacing
Eviscerate, Taste for Blood, Vile Weaponry and Skinner
with:
Expertise, Expose Weakness, Three-Pointer and Fatal Throw

In which case the build would look like this: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMQAwMDCggAwqAAwqAAAMKgPCYAL1h6RE8AwqAAAEYAAEQmMStPAAZcCz5LIRIqwocpwrNRwoXinY0K4qKMA-KjugLfvw

Compared to the previous one it has higher base damage, lower crit. chance at 38% (60% with consumables), nice AoE damage from grenades (55% crit. chance unbuffed), extra AP from Fatal Throw.

Would either of these builds be viable at DOMINATING? Which one is better and what would you improve?

Edit:

Updated build: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMQAwMDCggAJADCoAAALTwmAC9YekRPdcKgAABGF0tcJjErKQAGXAsSSyEqwoddwoHCs8KII-KdjQXip74K378

As for Cut-Throat and Brutality I realize they aren't particularly necessary in my case, besides, I have poor stealth and plenty of CC. I rather want those perks for RP reasons.

However, I'm not sure about the last 2 perks: Future Orientation and Mental Subversion. They seem to be rather useful in prolonged fights, but I'm not certain if I need them.

Is there any room for improvement?


Edit 2:

Updated build: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMQAwMDCggAIwDCoAAAwqA8JgA3WHpET3XCoAAARgAARCYxKykABipcPEshC8KHwohdwrMjwoXinY0F4qe-Ct-_
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 12:56:06 am by zzt »

HulkOSaurus

  • Tchortist
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +47/-32
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2020, 09:44:08 am »
What difficulty you want to play this at?

zzt

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2020, 10:10:10 am »
What difficulty you want to play this at?

DOMINATING, oddity.

HulkOSaurus

  • Tchortist
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +47/-32
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2020, 01:48:50 pm »
I wouldn't take that build on DOMINATING.

DerivativeZero

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: +12/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2020, 05:16:35 pm »
I've played a knife build on DOMINATING and can confirm that -at least with survival instincts and CON 9- it really works well and is a lot of fun to play. I'm not sure how reliable the knife will be without a high critical chance, though, but I guess that's what OP has thought control for.

Serrated knife with energy edge is excellent, obviously Taste for Blood, and didn't even need Expose Weakness. Would also take Premeditation way earlier for the free stun.

Have fun with the stabbing

zzt

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2020, 11:49:41 pm »
HulkOSaurus
Thanks for the feedback.

DerivativeZero
Good points. I expect only about 50% Crit. chance unbuffed: dex (13), recklessness (7) crafted serrated (13), infused rathound (15), death's grin (2). 75% Total, if we count body horror (3), SSD (2), focus stim (15), hardcore chips (5) as well. I suppose I could crank it up further with 10 points in reckless specialization, but that would probably cripple the damage output instead: 10 Crit. Chance increase at the expense of 125% Crit. Dmg. decrease (350% vs. 475% before ripper multiplier).

I didn't take Taste for Blood because my initial plan was to skip time a lot using Stasis, which would reduce the perk's effectiveness. But upon taking a closer look at the psi costs of Thought Control and Temporal Manipulation I'm not sure if it's going to work, not with increased psi costs and such limited psi pool. So, it's probably best to drop Future Orientation and replace it with Taste for Blood. Vile Weaponry looks great too, and I'm considering replacing Expose Weakness with it,  but I'll probably regret it once I encounter armored enemies that don't bleed. Also, I'm going to follow your advice and move Premeditation higher on the list. Cheers!






DerivativeZero

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: +12/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2020, 12:29:26 am »
Yeah that sounds more pragmatic than Stasis.

Expose Weakness doesn't hurt, but it's more helpful in the beginning, as Energy Edges usually are only really coming to play at the CoreTech Faction shop. It's a bit counterintuitive but that's the best faction for you because of those edges, I'd say.

Vile Weaponry was a bit a disappointment when I tried it, as it is limited to the person you got the bleeding wound on. Compared to Taste for Blood it's really shitty and you could easily do without, I think. But flavor-wise, yes, it sounds like it should be in the build.

I agree on the crit-damage over crit-chance. I just wanted to point out that my experience is with the +30% chance from Survival Instincts build, so a non-SI build might not be as easy-peasy as one with it on DOMINATING. I still think it would be viable.

zzt

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2020, 11:49:15 pm »
DerivativeZero
That's good to know! Thanks for your help.

As it turns out, I based the build off the wrong data. To my surprise, the wiki and the builder refer to the experimental branch, but not the stable one. On the latest stable version my build should actually work and be dramatically better than I initially anticipated.

HulkOSaurus

  • Tchortist
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +47/-32
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2020, 12:42:50 pm »
Do you want to do a small experiment? Run a death log and write down all your deaths into a txt file for future referencing.

mcdanben

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2020, 12:17:50 pm »
what equipment do you use early/mid/late??

zzt

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2020, 01:33:01 pm »
what equipment do you use early/mid/late??

Early: Shiv (excellent during early game!) + Combat/Serrated Knife (preferably TiChrome one), Balaclava, Padded Siphoner/Cave Hopper Leather Overcoat, Ninja/Siphoner Tabi Boots.
Mid: Tungsten Steel/TiChrome Serrated Knife + Shock/Energy Tungsten Steel/TiChrome Serrated Knife, Muffled Uni-Psi/Thought Control Headband, Rathound Regalia, Trapper's Belt, Ninja/Siphoner Tabi Boots, HF Shield Emitter.
Late: TiChrome Serrated Knife (for easy fights. 5AP cost with 18 Dex + Tabi Boots) + Energy Tungsten Steel Serrated Knife (for hard ones. Consume Eel Sandwich beforehand for reduced AP cost. 5 AP per stab with 19 Dex + Tabi Boots). Muffled Uni-Psi/Thought Control Headband or Pacifier, Padded Infused Rathound Leather Overcoat, Trapper's Belt + Lifting Belt, Ninja Tabi Boots, HF + LF Shield Emitter.

Equipment and consumables for passing skill checks:
Hacking: Lemurian Engineer Suit + Huxkey + Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (130)
Lockpicking: Lemurian Engineer Suit + Jackknife + Huxkey +  Eel Sandwich/Underpie = (131)
Traps: Lemurian Engineer Suit + Trapper's Belt + Jackknife  + Eel Sandwich/Underpie = (185-187)
Mechanics: Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (135)
Electronics: Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (187)
Chemistry: Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (112)
Biology: Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (132); (151 with workbench)
Tailoring: Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (179)
Mercantile: Hypercerebrix + Underpie = (105)

mcdanben

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2020, 11:32:41 am »
how can you deal with early game money/killing couple of mobs witout good defence or good material to craft somthing that help your dmg .. ?
i mean like till junkyard how you deal with no lockpick/hack/barly defance and no money..?

zzt

  • Probably not a Spambot
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Psy Assassin (aka Shinobi) viability check
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2020, 08:34:26 pm »
how can you deal with early game money/killing couple of mobs witout good defence or good material to craft somthing that help your dmg .. ?
i mean like till junkyard how you deal with no lockpick/hack/barly defance and no money..?

Some tips on money management early game:
it's probably obvious, but try to avoid spending on things you don't immediately need, unless you have a somewhat decent effective mercantile skill, like at least 50+. Leveling it up ASAP helps a lot. If some trader offers you a significant discount make them your sole supplier of the wares they offer (like Old Jonas, if you let him have his watch for free). Due to the limited demand sell as many things you don't need as possible before the next restock. Compare the prices to learn which items are cheaper to buy or to craft (for example, it cheaper to buy flashbangs, but craft the other grenades yourself). It might be worth to keep on crafting components of any kind though, since a complete item is usually worth more, than the sum of it's components' price. Save on repair kits by using lower quality weapons in easy fights, recycle cheap equipment and craft your own kits, fix expensive damaged equipment with repair kits before selling it. You should have a practically unlimited supply of Cave Hopper, Rathound, Pig and Siphoner leather early game, if you farm those critters regularly. Instead of selling the leathers in bulk it's best to use them to craft leather armors, which can be sold for better price or recycled into advanced fabric repair kits. Also, there's fishing. It might net you some valuables or high quality crafting components (like 70+Q Steel Plates or Black Cloth early game if you're lucky).

My early game spending priorities list goes as follows:
A Knife (Lucas)
Fishing Rod, Bear Traps, Lockpicks and Haxxor with a couple of e-cells (Old Jonas; if you have a discount always buy all of his Bear Traps whenever he restocks)
Taser blueprint and components (Erza, Katherine; Colton might have one of the components)
Tabi Boots. This piece of equipment is vital for the build, the earlier you get it the better. Look out for it; any quality/material will do, or better yet get the blueprint. Blaine sells the latter, but he's inaccessible early game (hacking 80+ check). I was lucky enough to find Lucas selling the blueprint before I headed for the GMS Compound.
Grenades.
High Q Black Cloth and Soft Foam Padding for armor.
Psi Headband and/or Balaclava

As for combat this build relies on strong CC and single-target DPS.  Early game, however, it has limited means of CC, and, as you pointed out, no defense and practically non-existent damage output.
It sure is challenging, but I'm making up for it by taking every bit of advantage I can get. In particular, that involves making use of stealth, terrain and combat utilities. A couple of general early game combat tips:
Recon the area, see if the critters stray away from each other far enough to break line of sight. If they do, and you're patient enough to wait for it you can silently take them out one by one, or at least reduce their numbers before fighting the rest. Works for human groups too, since they often have someone patrolling the perimeter. If your traps skill is low you can use it to your advantage: you can lure human opponents by placing easily detectable traps within their line of sight, which, if spotted, they'll approach in order to disable, providing you with an opportunity to silently take them out one by one.

Make use of chokepoints. Sometimes the terrain allows you to hold off a whole horde or melee enemies with a single Bear Trap. Once it's effect has expired you can retreat behind the next trap you placed beforehand. With careful planning you can make you can make full use of traps, even without Quick Tinkering perk. Alternatively, you can take Quick Tinkering for a significantly easier early game at the expense of some other less useful perk. I find Mind Subversion to be the most expendable perk in my build. Chokepoints can be used against ranged enemies as well, but you'll also need some cover nearby. As for dealing with human groups frag 'nade mk3+ followed by a flashbang seems like the best opener. Use taser if you're having trouble landing a hit. Aside from lone targets it's probably best to avoid fighting human groups at least until you get Crippling Strikes at lvl6.

Combat utilities. Get ready to spend most of your cash early on those. Combat utilities in order or importance early game: Bear Traps>Taser>Molotovs>Flashbangs>Frag and HE nades>flares>nets
Bear Traps. The most cost-efficient and reliable combat utility you get. Particularly useful early game. Aside from it's stated effects it allows you to land your hits efficiently even on highly agile targets. It allows you to reliably farm far superior targets (like warthogs and siphoners) very early.
Taser. Your only means of CC against robots aside from EMPs. A lifesaver early game since since it's cost-efficient and works on anything.
Mollies. Cheap and versatile, great CC, efficient against armored targets. Works wonders paired with Bear Traps: the immobilized targets patiently sit on their backsides as they're being slowly cooked into a crisp.

My build makes use of strong CC and crits, but doesn't fully invest in either, which (maybe) makes it good enough to make it through DOMINATING, but certainly not reliable. There's another psi assassin build on this forum https://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=5458.0 that focuses on stable damage output instead, while also taking full advantage of crits. I think it should be more suitable for beginners. And, unlike mine, it's a complete guide. Also, it has a link to a really helpful guide for surviving early game on DOMINATING.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 08:36:15 pm by zzt »