Someone have a crit psi build after nerf?

[Frank Horrigan]

I want back to play the game, and i wish play with psi crit build

[TheAverageGortsby]

You don't really need to change much, if anything.  You can use an old SI Psychosis build, completely unchanged, and do fine with the New Psi.  Chances are, with crit builds, you only used two or three abilities anyway since you killed everything with your opening alpha strikes.  So you won't really be bothered by the innervation slot limit, and you probably already used grenades to supplement your spiky damage just in case an enemy got a lucky evasion or your fireball/iceball threw two tiles off of the aimed tile.

Not much changed for crit psi, really.  Maybe expect to use a few more grenades, so pick up enough Chemistry or Mercantile to ensure a good supply of Mk IV frags and HEs.  That's probably it.

[destroyor]

Used the following build and finished a dominating game post psi-nerf patch:

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMIAwkDDAgAwqAAAAAAQgAALUFaalBDZsKgAMKgRiMASitiXywWKmUuwr0-IWZRBTB6csK34qOJCuKrpQXfvw

couple comments:
1) skill points in pickpocketing, traps and persuasion are absolutely optional, they can be allocated else where.

2) Temporal Manipulation cannot crit, period. 70 base TM is a must for Stasis. You *CAN* increase TM to decrease the debuff chance for PTC to a minimum of 30% but it's wasteful. As a crit psi build you should finish majority of the fight before PTC buff ran out so you shouldn't care about PTC debuff chance.

3) Due to the new innervation mechanic, you already taken 1 psi school TM for PTC and Stasis. You are strongly advised to pick a maximum of two (2) additional psi school, which two is up to you. I opt for TC and Meta. Keep in mind only the following psi abilities can crit:
Thought: Neural Overload, Psi-Cognitive Interruption
Psychokinesis: Telekinetic Punch, Electrokinesis
Meta: Cryokinesis, Pyrokinesis, Cryokinetic Orb
Time: NONE

Neural Overload started out weak but can be disgustingly powerful mid ~ late game with the right setup even on dominating. Psychokinesis lacks spammable crowd control as Electrokinesis is both Action Point intensive and unpredictable. Cryokinetic Orb is a perfectly fit for a crit psi but Meta is very weak against robot. My build use quick tinkering + EMP MKIII mines + EMP MKIII grenade against robots. A crit cryokinetic orb will still do some damage against even Naga Protector on dominating; it's just not very effective.

If you are playing legacy branch you should get all four school for maximum utility.

[Goromorg]

Psionic Juggernaut

Level 16: https://underrail.info/build/?EAgDAwcDDAgAUAAAAAAAPEsAAFoACihGWloAAC0ARitQDlUUKixlwr0hZ-KitQHfvw

Level 30: https://underrail.info/build/?HggDAwcDDggAwocAAAAAAEtQAABkZApLUMKgwqAARi0ARitQDlUUKixlwr0hZ8KEwofCiGbCucK3wqfCneKitQLio4kK4qyDAuKslwHfvw

It's tried and tested and IMO it's more fun than typical stealth psi builds.
My usual psi power loadout at lategame: Electrokinesis (main AoE spell), Neural overload, Force Field, Increment, Contraction, Stasis.

Gear:
Uni-psi headband with mufflers and neuroscopic filter for Electrokinesis.
Super steel armor with 3 extra plates and regenerative vest (avoid getting EMP'd).
Infused pig leather boots, reinforced by SS plate.

[Frank Horrigan]

Thank u guys, i will try all this builds in same time. I finish the game with some builds but never with psi builds, IT'S TIME! hahaha

[Sykar]

I am pondering a 3 con crit build. Dancing on a knives edge might be fun.

[LordGorchnik]

Used the following build and finished a dominating game post psi-nerf patch:

https://underrail.info/build/?HgMIAwkDDAgAwqAAAAAAQgAALUFaalBDZsKgAMKgRiMASitiXywWKmUuwr0-IWZRBTB6csK34qOJCuKrpQXfvw

couple comments:
1) skill points in pickpocketing, traps and persuasion are absolutely optional, they can be allocated else where.

2) Temporal Manipulation cannot crit, period. 70 base TM is a must for Stasis. You *CAN* increase TM to decrease the debuff chance for PTC to a minimum of 30% but it's wasteful. As a crit psi build you should finish majority of the fight before PTC buff ran out so you shouldn't care about PTC debuff chance.

3) Due to the new innervation mechanic, you already taken 1 psi school TM for PTC and Stasis. You are strongly advised to pick a maximum of two (2) additional psi school, which two is up to you. I opt for TC and Meta. Keep in mind only the following psi abilities can crit:
Thought: Neural Overload, Psi-Cognitive Interruption
Psychokinesis: Telekinetic Punch, Electrokinesis
Meta: Cryokinesis, Pyrokinesis, Cryokinetic Orb
Time: NONE

Neural Overload started out weak but can be disgustingly powerful mid ~ late game with the right setup even on dominating. Psychokinesis lacks spammable crowd control as Electrokinesis is both Action Point intensive and unpredictable. Cryokinetic Orb is a perfectly fit for a crit psi but Meta is very weak against robot. My build use quick tinkering + EMP MKIII mines + EMP MKIII grenade against robots. A crit cryokinetic orb will still do some damage against even Naga Protector on dominating; it's just not very effective.

If you are playing legacy branch you should get all four school for maximum utility.

What kind of armor/headband/boots you rock for this type of Psi build?

[destroyor]

Get Sturdy psionic overcoat (tac vest made using sturdy vest, psi beetle carapace, black cloth) asap. The key part is the psi beetle carapace which grants -10% psi cost. You can and should rush-craft any tac vest using psi beetle carapace as early as possible.

Weapons: try to get Sørmirbæren Spirit Staff asap. Sørmirbæren Spirit Staff > Høddurform for this build even when using Neural Overload. Damage over time is moot with your 1hitko Neural Overload.

For boots wear ninja tabi majority of the time for stealth and MP bonus. Switch to other resistance specific tabi when situation calls for it: infused mutant dog tabi for acid resistance, infused heart breaker serpent tabi for bio resist and so on ...

Psi headband: This is the most important crafting aspect of the build.
For legacy branch you want Universal Psionic Modulator, Proximal Neuroscopic Filter and Stable Neural Amplifier

For post psi nerf game you want school specific psi headband - initially you will only be using two psi school: Meta + TM, so you should be wearing psi headband crafted using: Metathermic Modulator, Proximal Neuroscopic Filter, Stable Neural Amplifier. You should have a secondary Meta psi headband crafted using: Metathermic Modulator, Magnifying Neuroscopic Filter: Cryokinetic Orb, Psionic Mufflers for locus hive bombing.

You need 75 base thought control to get Locus of control at level 16 but you won't be using TC at all until you have a Scanning Thought Control amplifier psi headband crafted using Thought Control Modulator, Magnifying Neuroscopic Filter: Neural Overload, Stable Neural Amplifier. You should just leave Thought Control at 75 base until mid game around level 16 ~ 20 ish or so and starting maxing Thought Control every level. Because Neural Overload is silent you can switch to a TC load out to quietly assassinate/thin out npc crowd. Make sure to activate a cloaking device, wear Scanning Thought Control amplifier psi headband, ninja tabi + infused cave hopper leather armor with black cloth as stealth is on the low side.

My psi abilities loadouts are as follow:
Meta + TM frontal assault mode
Stasis, Psycho-temporal Contraction, Limited Temporal Increment, Cryokinesis, Cryokinetic Orb
Pyrokinesis OR Thermodynamic Destabilization, usually pyrokinesis as thermoD can only be triggered using grenades.

TC + TM silent assassination mode
Stasis, Psycho-temporal Contraction, Limited Temporal Increment, Neural Overload, Mental Breakdown, *any TC abilities, usually Pseudo-spatial Projection

Towards the end game once I have everything setup I just used the following loadout and didn't bother to change it:
Stasis, Psycho-temporal Contraction, Limited Temporal Increment, Cryokinesis, Cryokinetic Orb, Neural Overload


Lastly make sure to visit food vendors often and buy up all available Pickled Mindshroom and Psi Beetle Brain Soup.

[destroyor]

Hmm re-reading what I wrote made me realized I undersold Psychokinesis school, so I'm just going to add this comment:

The three psi schools (TM is excluded as 70 base is good enough for a crit psi) have the pros and cons:

Thought Control
Pros: silent, Neural Overload is deadly mid~late game and bypass resistance
Cons: does not work on non-organic, at all

Psychokinesis    
Pros: works on everything, arguably the strongest school against a single target. Telekinetic Proxy + Implosion/Telekinetic Punch is just deadly. Force field. Electrokinesis = force lightning. Only school that is effective against robots.
Cons: lacks spammable and AOE psi abilities.

Metathermics
Pros: Fire proc fear. Long range and AOE psi abilites.
Cons: very ineffective against robots, loud (see noise: https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Noise)

[Goromorg]

Psychokinesis    
Pros: works on everything, arguably the strongest school against a single target. Telekinetic Proxy + Implosion/Telekinetic Punch is just deadly. Force field. Electrokinesis = force lightning. Only school that is effective against robots.
Cons: lacks spammable and AOE psi abilities.

Electrokinesis is spammable and is pretty good as an AoE ability because it ignores enemy evasion.

[destroyor]

You could treat it as such but there are situations where using Electrokinesis is problematic:

Your TK punch + implosion are on cooldown. 1 enemy remain, use of Electrokinesis is just ... wasteful. Here the best choice is the spammable Cryokinesis or Neural overload.

You can more or less "focus fire" cryokinetic orb because you know it will spread out evenly as a circle and closer to landing point = usually more damage. You can't do that with Electrokinesis.

When using cryo orb against a crowd you often don't know who will or will not get hit but the damage is usually still more or less evenly spreadout among them, or just use Pyrokinesis/Thermodynamic Destabilization for true AOE (everyone take the same damage before evasion damage reduction), so you should use cryo orb and followup with a grenade to finish everyone off. More targets = more chance for cryo orb to do its magic. If you use a grenade first and than cryo orb it might results in enemies standing.
Facing the exact situation Electrokinesis will jump randomly - if you use Electrokinesis first the damage might get very unevenly spread so grenade won't finish off the crowd. If you use grenade first it could result in enemies having a gap that is too wide for Electrokinesis to jump. Electrokinesis could also jump to a "dead zone" where it killed a target, jump to the next and now the gap is too wide for it to jump back and continue.

Still Electrokinesis is a very good psi ability but its use requires a certain amount of luck and finesse to it.


Oh and lastly outside of Locus of Control TC does not have AOE attack, but when it does ... enjoy it my friends.

[Fins]

Excellent thread, which i think deserves further discussion.

Two points to add to the above.

Electrokinesis vs Pyro/Cryo as AOE: it's true EK is often tactically inferior choice, but then Cryo Orb does seriously reduced damage vs all the "near campfire" packs (due to Warmed Up buff on 'em) and also struggles vs any foes with high mechanical and/or cold damage treshold. Plus both Orb and Pyrokinesis are not spammable due to 3 turns cooldown.

Thus, i wonder that perhaps Telekinetic Pxoxy could be used instead, as an AoE damage dealer? Never tried to make a dedicated TP AoE damage dealer myself, but seeing its 1 turn cooldown and 3 tile radius, i can see how pre-fight TP cast, then followed by two casts (2nd after using cooldown-reducing ability) during 1st turn of a fight - could easily dish out several hundreds points of mechanical damage (late-game with gear bonuses and 300+ skill) in a 5-tile-wide corridor of player's choice, which seems to be quite potent. And TP is really low cost ability in both APs and Psi, too. Yes, TP does not crit - but then, does it need to, assuming it's just a bunch of regular goons with a few hundred points of health being majority of the crowd we're thinning out? As a bonus, after 2nd in-combat TP cast we may well place it near some high-health fella and follow with double Imlosion hit on that "main guy", without having to cast a dedicated TP for it.

And 2nd point: few posts prior, one of Thought Control pros listed - was: "silent". Yet the same wasn't listed for Metathermics. This is practically incorrect: Cryokinesis is not completely silent, but it does merely 5 noise (both at the caster and at impact point), which is practically nothing. Because it's either open space, in which case enemies would see further than such a low-volume noise would reach, meaning they'd spot you casting anything anyway; or, there are some walls breaking their line of sight - but then, walls also muffle sounds, at least a bit, but for 5-pt sounds even a bit is already enough. For example, in Junkyard there are a few goons who demand 5 coin tall 1st time we arrive there, and there's a building directly to the north from this thugs - with one of theirs standing inside. Killing that guy inside the building (sneaking into it without alerting ones outside) with Cryokinesis - does not alert anyone, even while they're really close and the building is as shaky and thin-walled as it can visually be.

[Fins]

...
Psychokinesis    
Pros: works on everything, arguably the strongest school against a single target. Telekinetic Proxy + Implosion/Telekinetic Punch is just deadly. Force field. Electrokinesis = force lightning. Only school that is effective against robots.
Cons: lacks spammable and AOE psi abilities.

Metathermics
Pros: Fire proc fear. Long range and AOE psi abilites.
Cons: very ineffective against robots, loud (see noise: https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Noise)

Yeah, let's argue about "strongest school against a single target", too!

Metathermics "arguably" is the strongest vs single target, because it allows to kill extremely high-health enemies (read - 400% health bosses in Domination) by a certain, rather simple, tactic. Better yet, it allows to do it while preventing 'em using _any_ drugs (which bosses oh so often have in lavish supply)!

Here's how:

- have the boss isolated (by removing any minions if any are present nearby, or waiting for him to be far from any if he/they patrol);

- place a single bear trap near some corner at a spot the boss will be able to run to in a single turn, after you start the combat and hide behind that corner;

- start combat, hide behind the corner, end turn. The boss approaches the corner, but fails to do anything to you, 'cause he triggers your bear trap and stops. If the corner is at just right distance from the boss' initial position, then can do without bear trap at all, too;

- 2nd turn: with 60 AP to spend, use MPs to run right next to the boss, then drop a Toxic Gas grenade (15 AP) at his feet (100% chance, can't miss); then do 2x Cryokinesis (40 AP); then cast Premeditation (if you have it), and then Cryostasis the boss (0...5 AP);

- 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th turns: observe the boss taking increasingly large amounts of damage from Toxic Gas (which does not break Cryostasis because it's not _direct_ damage), while getting extra damage taken debuff ticking up to +200%;

- 7th turn: finish the boss with a few casts of any damaging ability. Cryokinesis will do if there's nothing better. Each hit doing 3x damage (due to full, 20x stack of Toxic Gas debuff), it likely won't require to burn any cooldowns or consumables to finish the boss. Who still did not use any of his own, too - everything he had we can now loot!

One extra benefit of this technique - it's available very earily in the game. Both abilities are learnable in SGS, and very 1st "proper" (400% health) Dominating boss - which is one in the Water Treatment Plant, - is already doable this way. Just did it with a level 8 Psi (12 Will, max hard-pt Metathermics, +10 Metathermics headband, no other bonuses) - and it took just two Cryokinesis casts to finish the boss. Total psi points spent - 90, which is quite cheap for a boss fight, too.