Sorry (negative post)

[Omegakill]

Hi there,

Sorry but I'm playing through the latest version of the game (I believe it's 0.1.9.1) and the combat is ridiculously hard to a point where the game isn't even fun anymore, I played through the demo and it was perfect, there were times when I had to reload my game and try different tactics (even cheap tactics sometimes) but it was great, battles were hard fought and you got decent loot, but this is silly, my weapon degrades so fast and I get so little loot there isn't any possible way I can keep up, you normally get taken on by a minimum of 4 other animals/people all armed better than you are AND they start combat first if you enter the area.

I shouldn't have to have a specific build as the whole point in an RPG is that *I* get to choose what build I have, i've tried melee only and that failed harder than this one did (ranged) I've got to the point where I'm exploiting the gate trick where rats can't get through and I can shoot them, but as my weapon degrades SO quickly my accuracy drops to 40% and lower and it again becomes pointless and frustrating, I realise that this is still an alpha build and there is more balancing to be done but it isn't fun at the moment which is such a shame because whole concept and gameplay is AMAZING but the fighting and combat side is impossible.

I don't know if you're planning on putting a difficulty level in similar to a D&D type system where you can pick easy and the enemies only do 50% damage or cheats for the players that are having a hard time can use when they need to (people shouldn't complain about this as no one is FORCED to use them, they are there for those of us who just can't win). Again I know this is alpha build so a lot will change but I'm hoping that you keep the power of control with us and be able to either choose the difficulty or add some cheats in for those really hard battles (at the moment anything with more than 1 person is just silly..) for example the package mission, you are up against 3 other people, 1 sledge hammer guy who gets to hit you twice for around 30-40 damage, and two guys with guns.. I start with really shit basic armor so am I missing a really basic yet amazing armor set that everyone else has?

This is turning out to be the son of the Fallout game's that i've always wanted but please do something about the hard battles..

[Elhazzared]

People are not forced into specific builds in order to win, but people are forced to actually make decent builds. think of it like this. If someone gives you 10000 dollars or whatever equivalent for you country to prepare for a battle and you spend it all in bubblegum, you don't get to complain that the opponent brings up an armor suit and an assault rifle. Similarly in any game you have to make decent builds which will take a little bit of time for most people as well as learn how enemies works and learn to counter them.

The rathounds you should aggro them in small packs, if you use stealth you will be able to do so more successfully as you'll be able to scout the number of enemies before engaging and of course engage in an optimal fashion. You should probably buy a grenade or two at the start if you find the going getting tough, a grenade will kill any rathounds in the beggining of the game and they do are cheap... Myself I don't need them or just use them for the guy with the rathounds in the house north of the generator. Just try to manage your aggro and remember you can go back for free healing.

As for the package delivery mission you are not supposed to do that as a first mission. You should do the first main mission first and then do the package deliveryas the second main mission takes you to the GMS compound anyway. By then you are slightly better equipped and you have a few more hit points from level ups. The fight is still hard and Styg already said that he was going to nerf those 3 guys but here's the way you do that fight easly.

There is a barrel on the right side of the screen. Wait next to it until those guys start fighting off some rathounds that will eventually aggro them as they patrol the road above. When they do this move closer to those guys and throw a grenade. Try to hit all 3 of them and if possible not any rathounds so they will wast time killing the rathounds. Once the grenades hits all 3 of them (you might need to savescum until you get a throw which hits all 3 of them) they are left at half health. From there on you should be able to win the fight easly.

[Aria]

The game was hard for me also at first, but then I started planning ahead should I get attacked etc that has made a huge difference. The games difficulty is spot on and should not be changed as right now it forces the player to play smart and careful.

Just be little patient with the game and take your time ...you will get the hang of it and while it will still be hard, it will also be much more fun!

[Omegakill]

People are not forced into specific builds in order to win, but people are forced to actually make decent builds. think of it like this. If someone gives you 10000 dollars or whatever equivalent for you country to prepare for a battle and you spend it all in bubblegum, you don't get to complain that the opponent brings up an armor suit and an assault rifle. Similarly in any game you have to make decent builds which will take a little bit of time for most people as well as learn how enemies works and learn to counter them.

There is only so many points you can put into weapon skills and stealth skills so at the point I was writing this post I was level 3 with max possible points into guns and stealth.

The rathounds you should aggro them in small packs, if you use stealth you will be able to do so more successfully as you'll be able to scout the number of enemies before engaging and of course engage in an optimal fashion. You should probably buy a grenade or two at the start if you find the going getting tough, a grenade will kill any rathounds in the beginning of the game and they do are cheap... Myself I don't need them or just use them for the guy with the rathounds in the house north of the generator. Just try to manage your aggro and remember you can go back for free healing.

I was trying to agro them in small packs but they came in 4 at that particular time, I've since reloaded and skipped that part and now much further and currently holding 7 grenades Also if I remember rightly healing occurred over time in the demo? I would like that put back in even if it is slow or some sort of first aid skill that can heal small amounts of damage just to ease the combat a little bit.

As for the package delivery mission you are not supposed to do that as a first mission. You should do the first main mission first and then do the package deliveryas the second main mission takes you to the GMS compound anyway. By then you are slightly better equipped and you have a few more hit points from level ups. The fight is still hard and Styg already said that he was going to nerf those 3 guys but here's the way you do that fight easly.

Wasn't exactly my first but I probably tackled it a little too soon, got a 7.62 pistol and a grenade and made short work of them after reassessing my options and choosing to do another quest before taking that on.

There is a barrel on the right side of the screen. Wait next to it until those guys start fighting off some rathounds that will eventually aggro them as they patrol the road above. When they do this move closer to those guys and throw a grenade. Try to hit all 3 of them and if possible not any rathounds so they will wast time killing the rathounds. Once the grenades hits all 3 of them (you might need to savescum until you get a throw which hits all 3 of them) they are left at half health. From there on you should be able to win the fight easly.

Thanks for the advice but I got there in the end just using a well placed grenade and a high cal pistol, although I'm past the hard bit I still think combat could use some refining (still stick to my difficulty slider or cheats) but AGAIN I state I know it's alpha and things will change.

[Eliasfrost]

I think the problem lies not in the players themselves, but that the game as it is right now doesn't do its best to introduce the players to the various tactics available and the weapon types and how they are properly used within the mechanics of the game. I hope for a tutorial/better starting area to better prepare the player for the huge difficulty that the game presents. Right now, it's doesn't matter if you plan ahead your first time through, you won't know what is good against what, what types of enemies to expect, the range of different resistances and how frequent they are, stuff like that.

Having said that, I don't think the combat need any nerfing, I just think that the game need to prepare the player better with information whenever [insert mechanic] is introduced, right now the game doesn't do a good job of doing just that, it just drop the player in and most of the time (as evident to the frequent posts about difficulty) you need to reroll at least twice to even have a chance. It's about information, not the difficulty in itself.

[Styg]

Hi,

I'm aware that the early game can be a bit rough (especially that bandit encounter you mentioned) and players sometimes get starved for resources and this is something that I plan to remedy.

I think most builds are currently viable, but getting them going can be tricky at times and also some damage mitigation mechanics are not implemented yet (energy shields) which makes it hard to sustain enemy burst damage in certain fights (e.g. melee vs multiple ranged opponents).

In my opinion, the main problem with the early game though is not that it's so hard (experienced players can blast through it no problem), but that you need certain know-how on how to approach different encounters and because the game is so unforgiving you often have to learn this the hard way (die and reload). I'm planning to slowly tweak this in the future updates so that the player will have more room for error at the start and be able to learn the game without dying too often.

I'm not big on tutorials as I don't believe players should be hand-held too much and while I might improve this aspect a bit, I really think it's more fun and ultimately more rewarding to find these things out yourself (with some narrative hints, e.g. Old Jonas dialog). But this ties into what I said above - players need to have more room for error, especially at the start, to learn the game without being frustrated by frequent deaths.

Also, I do plan to add an easier difficulty setting by the release time for those who prefer a bit more casual approach to combat (nothing wrong with that).

[Eliasfrost]

I'm not big on tutorials as I don't believe players should be hand-held too much and while I might improve this aspect a bit, I really think it's more fun and ultimately more rewarding to find these things out yourself (with some narrative hints, e.g. Old Jonas dialog). But this ties into what I said above - players need to have more room for error, especially at the start, to learn the game without being frustrated by frequent deaths.

I strongly support this idea, show don't tell certainly applies even when giving the player gameplay information and if you can seamlessly introduce gameplay mechanics without it feeling like a tutorial then I think a lot more new players will appreciate the game even more. But about hand-helding, in my opinion I think it's important to introduce the basic mechanics to the player so that he can use them as a tool to explore new possibilities and tactics, without a toolbox, the player is left without means to explore and that lead to unnecessary errors because it will seem unfair to just drop the player in without any clues. What may seem obvious to seasoned RPG players isn't to new players, and if this information is seamlessly placed into the game world, then I think it's a win-win.

[screeg]

I'm not bothered by the difficulty, though maybe the curve could be ironed out a little.  I don't like tutorials of any kind, including the "stealth" tutorial, like an afterschool special on tv where you don't know you're learning a life lesson until it's over.  These days, anyone frustrated with the game can look online for advice.  It doesn't need to be built in.  (Keeping in mind you don't want the game to be ridiculously hard right at the start)

Having said all that, weapon degradation is a pain in the f&*(?%g ass.  I don't like it full stop, but if you're going to have it let's be a little more realistic.  How many times in RL do you have to fire a pistol before it starts to malfunction?  The model you've got right now is an abstraction which creates a tedious chore for the player.  If the only purpose is to soak the player for credits, there are other less tedious ways to balance the economy.

[fakum12]

Having said all that, weapon degradation is a pain in the f&*(?%g ass.  I don't like it full stop

That is exactly why I stopped playing. Combined with, the for my taste, way too hard difficulty. With the update the game became unplayable. Unfortunately because I started out really nice.

[Unmobable]

Hi all, greeting from germany

Ive been reading here for the last 2 weeks because i got Underrail on steam and was interested in suggestions and opinions other players have about that game.

I was just reading on an Wasteland 2 Forum when someone mentioned Underrail, 30 min later i bought it.
First of all, great game, Styg played Fallout 1 + 2 a lot i guess, there are many functions and parts of content which are comparable or even similiar to each other.
Keep on building new maps, locations, enemys, items, weapons, sounds and ways to do quests and fight, im pretty sure Underrail will be an specific tip for experienced/advanced RPG gamers out there, i really really like your game, im addicted. Spend every free minute ingame the last 10 days.

On my first try i skilled the wrong way, i tried to use 14 different skills and it didnt work (no educated perk on lvl 4 ), so i decided to restart. So i build an intelligent psi gunslinger with some passion for burgling and opening everything he could find and on my second try it worked. Yesterday i finally found that armillo goddamn how is it called drill part, my char is on lvl 10 right now.
Most of the game i used 5mm and 7.62 mm Hammerer and psi and vice versa, very very late i spend much of my hard stolen money to get an 8.6 sniper rifle which does 130 dmg with sniped shot (best ability from my point of view, helped A LOT).

Im not even done with junkyard, i didnt get the keycard from elwood and i didnt help the eels erasing the scrappers, so some quests are allready open.

TBH, this is game really fu..... hard right at the beginning, but not unfair. The player is always able to get repairing tools to minimize weapon degradation or to switch handguns. In junkyard on the latest you can get TONS of loot and taking the foodway to GMS you can sell always something for some coins. Ive got 1000 GMS and 2000 Styg coins and im still wearing rathound armor, i didnt use galvaniced wests or metal armor or or or....
If some encounter is to hard do another quest or steal everything you can find to get better decent firearms, push up psi skills on every level up.

Use tilecinetic fist and this fire attack on Rathounds, frighten them to split them up. Fighting humans may be difficult at the early beginning, think about tactics to stun on enemy on every round and damage two others. And if nothing seems to help....run ;-)

[fakum12]

On my first try i skilled the wrong way

That's the second, no the third, thing I really don't like. There is like one skillset that works, every other skillset just sents you failing.
I think games that force you on a specific way of playing are absolute fun-stopper. For me failing was never and will never be fun.

They way it is right now, it sure does look like I wasted my money with.

[Unmobable]

Maybe you misunderstood my post : i choosed to many different skills (14) and that way i wasnt able to put enough points in every skill i wanted to use. Its a difference if you put 3 points in 5 skills or 5 points in 3. Somewhere i read that the game is made to be played with 8 main skills which is not enough i guess. I wanted to have more options. Putting 40 points in 14 skills isnt that effective but using the same points in 10 skills will have the result you get better in few skills faster.

Right now ive got lockpick and hacking on 65 which opens 85 per cent of all lockers and terminals.
Guns is 70 so i can shoot nearly everything.
The 3 psis are on 58 i guess and every AoE attack causes the enemy crying rivers of blood instantly.
Stealth is on 48 but my armor provides a stealth bonus + 17, so i can sneak through dangerous passages if needed.

But : ill do an melee trap psi character in a few days when im done with the first walkthrough.
I let you know if it works. Everbody here is complaning mk2 greanades and mines are way to strong.

The only enemy frightening me  at the moment are these big acid mutants in old junkyard, a single hit does 70 dmg to me and these acid dogs are always patrolling in groups.

[LazyMonk]

On my first try i skilled the wrong way

That's the second, no the third, thing I really don't like. There is like one skillset that works, every other skillset just sents you failing.
I think games that force you on a specific way of playing are absolute fun-stopper. For me failing was never and will never be fun.

They way it is right now, it sure does look like I wasted my money with.

fakum12, this is false. No, not only its false its, in fact, quite the opposite.
I have finished the game plenty of times with very different builds.


 

[Elhazzared]

Grenades and mines are fine now, but before version 0.1.10 you used to be able to craft grenades/mines all the way up to Mk5 too early and proceed to wtfpwn everything with those.

Good old times

[fakum12]

Sooo... now that easy difficulty is in, has anyone been playing with it? Did it help?

It did. I've played a while on easy now, and have to say now it does feel much better balanced for me. I still die often enough to feel challenged, but I am able to skill my char much more to my liking.
Even the weapon degrading "feels" fine now. So I am really pleased with the changes here.

But it does feel like the new economy system needs some way more balancing done....