Author Topic: High agility build  (Read 351 times)

Guehlfirf

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High agility build
« on: September 15, 2021, 01:05:15 pm »
Like real high. Agility is highest stat. I want to take increase agility veteran feat.

Is it possible to build something other than meme stealth build.


RewRatt

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 01:12:45 pm »
I don't think so, as AGI doesn't boost any combat stats. One thing could work though:
High AGI, Shotgun Evasion build. Because of Lead Shot which can negate 90% of Evasion, you can use 9 or 10 PER. Damage takes a hit of course, but hit chance not so much.
And max Temporal Manipulation for additive bonuses from Precognition.

RewRatt

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 01:20:07 pm »
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 01:33:50 pm by RewRatt »

Guehlfirf

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 01:47:15 pm »
I also thought something like this
https://underrail.info/build/?HgYHDgMKAwPCoGQAAMKgwqBkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwqAAAFw5JCvCsE4ewpZHwphhMcKHFhknwrHCpcKJ4qG4BeKligXip5cD4rOsAt-_

Fast shotgun hobo. Can get a double barrel for that doomguy feel.

Koveras

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 06:38:11 pm »
I know you said "not a meme stealth build", but hey, just in case:

https://underrail.info/build/?HgUDEAMKAwbCoGUAAAAAwqBVcGUAZG4jOGQAAABGAABaATkdKAI1fjNLKyrCiMKFJCfCscKlwqbDi8Kdwp7Cn-Kgsgrir7wE4q-9Ad-_

I'm finishing a run with that stupid build (lvl 29, almost done everything except DC), and it was surprisingly viable. Snipers are okay with low PER, because it's easy to get extra accuracy, and they overkill most things anyway. And extreme stealth is really strong.

Also, be careful with dodge/evasion + 3 CON. You will most likely end up playing as if you have no defenses anyway. Dodge/evasion is damage mitigation, like armor, and you need base HP to make use of damage mitigation.

Guehlfirf

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2021, 02:02:37 am »
I know you said "not a meme stealth build", but hey, just in case:

https://underrail.info/build/?HgUDEAMKAwbCoGUAAAAAwqBVcGUAZG4jOGQAAABGAABaATkdKAI1fjNLKyrCiMKFJCfCscKlwqbDi8Kdwp7Cn-Kgsgrir7wE4q-9Ad-_

I'm finishing a run with that stupid build (lvl 29, almost done everything except DC), and it was surprisingly viable. Snipers are okay with low PER, because it's easy to get extra accuracy, and they overkill most things anyway. And extreme stealth is really strong.

Also, be careful with dodge/evasion + 3 CON. You will most likely end up playing as if you have no defenses anyway. Dodge/evasion is damage mitigation, like armor, and you need base HP to make use of damage mitigation.


No blitz or escape artist? What difficulty do you play?

xnmh

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2021, 04:35:16 am »
take a look at this: https://underrail.info/build/?HgMGDAMMAwcAUMKgAG7CjMKgQkMAAE9kNCtQAAAAAEYASSQBIh41f08dFjhrQsKFSMKxAi8aw47CnsKfwp3ipKIK4qegBd-_

critless crossbow going for maximum snipe damage from Raven on the discord, I haven't played it yet but it looks pretty good, though you might struggle with big robots.

l0cus77

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 12:52:41 pm »
Hi! I was playing with that concept too. Maximum evasion playable character possible. I managed to do this: https://underrail.info/build/?HgUDDgMKBAfCoHgAAADCoGREWgAAUGANMFAAAADClgAAPiskOSY7AgFKfkk1woddLw_CsXXCheKepgLiobgF4qWeBeKntAPfvw

Only tested to depot A. Seemed to work. Curious to test in the end game in the future. Not time enough now. Idea is to maximize evasion over anything (even fire power), but still having a dominating playable character. There are better choices if you are aiming for a more balanced build, but since this one was more of a concept, initial limitations where:
- At least 4 will, to get to 150 TM (threshold for +15% evasion precognition). If my maths are not incorrect you earn more by multiplying for 15% 16 agi that 17 agi for 10%, so it's worth the tradeoff. This helps offsetting the skill raises from dominating.
- At least 7 int, for Skinner (max quality leather possible). Also, a little more luck dependent, but instead of +2 agi, +20% leather quality should also be more beneficial if using infusioned siphoner leather. Also nice for skill points (other variant with 4 int was a little bit too harsh to play).
- AR / shotgun suppressive fire use, if specced into it, -20% chance to hit after burst fire if attraped in cone. (this additive to standard calculation if i am not mistaken, so very useful along Expert evasion, for -25% from start.)
- As high as possible Agi after that previous considerations.
- Getting relevant feats /specializations for extra evasion when possible.

That left no space for full auto AR / Shotgun. Probably hurts Shotty more than AR. Only 5 strength, 3 viable weapons: snipers, AR (with +1 STR food) and shotty. Sniper and AR shares Ambush, ideal to avoid evasion. End up doing a mix of these two. Ah, yes, you are going to need to eat and carry +1 strength food the whole game. I wouldn’t. Just be practical and surrender 1 extra agi.

The idea is to have a good enough alpha strike: (2 free sniper shots, 12.7 cal, no crits required with snipe and aimed shot), then AR burst, get a kill, another free trigger from commando. Take on from there. Preventely disabling enemies / setting ambushes when possible is of great help. Disengaging and re-stealthing, too. You don’t have the full power of Sniper or AR, but you do have a well enough mix of tool set to face most encounters without too many reloads.

There are tweeks to be made: i didn't get uncanny dodge (don't usually get hit by melee with this kind of builds), but can be picked instead of evasive maneuvers, together with blitz, for extra damage (probably dropping quick pockets / blindsiding. Quick pockets is nice to have cloak field all time on). The idea here is to evasive maneuver + Stasis + Finish turn. Next turn enjoy movement points + maxed evasion. Not sure if supper is useful / practical, but fun anyway and loyal to the build idea.

If you want to play it, go ahead, I don’t really recommend it. Probably one of the shotgun builds posted before are more fun, but this one is a nice challenge and trial to solve the damn question, is evasion useful at all in dominating?

RewRatt

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2021, 01:38:49 pm »
Problem I find with low APM (attacks per minute) weapons and low weapon skill - you can't afford to miss. Building sniper (which is low APM) or Crossbow (mid-APM with Quiver and Cyclon) is that Ambush(ing) then becomes essential on Dominating. Even at 95% you still miss and get irritated. At 60% you will be swearing non-stop. So less of that = more playing and more fun 😆😁

Assault Rifles can also get away with low PER somewhat - at least AOE doesn't suffer. 11PER is really doable. But:
a) AR's are already fine with 3CON and no Dodge/Evasion.
b) All this extra mobility is rather pointless on such a long reach weapon.
c) Who want's to play AR when looking for something different? 😁

Also Sniper's Killing Spree RELIES on you not missing and shots being kill-shots. Otherwise it is a complete waste. So a as high a skill as possible what is needed. Imo.

Ploluap

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2021, 02:35:56 pm »
Problem I find with low APM (attacks per minute) weapons and low weapon skill - you can't afford to miss. Building sniper (which is low APM) or Crossbow (mid-APM with Quiver and Cyclon) is that Ambush(ing) then becomes essential on Dominating. Even at 95% you still miss and get irritated. At 60% you will be swearing non-stop. So less of that = more playing and more fun 😆😁

Assault Rifles can also get away with low PER somewhat - at least AOE doesn't suffer. 11PER is really doable. But:
a) AR's are already fine with 3CON and no Dodge/Evasion.
b) All this extra mobility is rather pointless on such a long reach weapon.
c) Who want's to play AR when looking for something different? 😁

Also Sniper's Killing Spree RELIES on you not missing and shots being kill-shots. Otherwise it is a complete waste. So a as high a skill as possible what is needed. Imo.

You're right but not all ennemies have high evasion stat even in dominating, and there are many ways to reduce (ambush, leading shot, pistols) or negate (stun, immobilization, off-balance...) evasion, so high perception is good but not necessary. Also if you have high mobility you are more likely to survive even after missing a shot. Not saying it's optimal but it's playable :)

RewRatt

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2021, 03:49:21 pm »
You're right but not all ennemies have high evasion stat even in dominating, and there are many ways to reduce (ambush, leading shot, pistols) or negate (stun, immobilization, off-balance...) evasion, so high perception is good but not necessary. Also if you have high mobility you are more likely to survive even after missing a shot. Not saying it's optimal but it's playable :)
Indeed 😄 It is mostly a joy factor for me - "Am I having fun or is this a misery I am slogging through?" - that is a question we often ask 😆 For example I love the SMG build. Powerful, fast. Can be played loud or all Sepc-Ops like, taking enemies one by one 😄 But some people find it boring. So to each their own 😄

Koveras

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2021, 07:01:10 pm »
No blitz or escape artist? What difficulty do you play?

Dominating/oddity.
Escape artist would not help, because if an ennemy can touch me I'm dead 99% of the time. I'm not a Blitz fan, but it could replace one of my QoL feats I guess.

With this character you kill 2/3 enemies, disengage, rinse and repeat. If the map is large enough, it's possible to disengage by running away then stealth. Otherwise, Vanishing Powder is your friend. It's possible to exit fight mode with an enemy 2 tiles away, stupid things happen at 500 stealth... Then again, it IS a meme build, I don't want to bait anyone into playing it. I just wanted to point that sniper rifles are viable at low skill values.

Also, RewRatt is right: while I do have 95% hit chance against everything, I'm firing a 50 AP weapon, so a miss is generally an instant F9 + cursing Styg ^^

RewRatt

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2021, 07:32:18 pm »
Escape artist would not help, because if an ennemy can touch me I'm dead 99% of the time. I'm not a Blitz fan, but it could replace one of my QoL feats I guess.
I can vouch for Escape Artist even on 3CON builds. Acid Entanglement from dogs, Nets from natives, missed Bear Trap - often not lethal, but would be with no mobility and zeroed out Evasion/Dodge. It is an "F9 Preventor Nr.1"™! 😄😄

Quote
Also, RewRatt is right: while I do have 95% hit chance against everything, I'm firing a 50 AP weapon, so a miss is generally an instant F9 + cursing Styg ^^
😆😆 and then the 3, 95% misses in a row come in with your Double Hasted Spearhead/Reaper... it is the quintessential "Oh WTF!!!??" 😆🤣🤣

Guehlfirf

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2021, 01:09:31 am »
Hi! I was playing with that concept too. Maximum evasion playable character possible. I managed to do this: https://underrail.info/build/?HgUDDgMKBAfCoHgAAADCoGREWgAAUGANMFAAAADClgAAPiskOSY7AgFKfkk1woddLw_CsXXCheKepgLiobgF4qWeBeKntAPfvw
So a meme evasion build. Siphoner man.

I can vouch for Escape Artist even on 3CON builds. Acid Entanglement from dogs, Nets from natives, missed Bear Trap - often not lethal, but would be with no mobility and zeroed out Evasion/Dodge. It is an "F9 Preventor Nr.1"™! 😄😄
Was also going to say that escape artist is anti f9 feature. I also enjoy having sure step for just how convenient that is.




Guehlfirf

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Re: High agility build
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2021, 01:12:42 am »
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMODAMDBQYAwqAAwqDCoMKgMmQeABQ8WkYyWgAAAAAAAFAkOWFOFhM-BgkvPEdcS8KxwonCpsOG4qG4BeKlvAfip5cD378

Meme evasion build but with a lot more grenades this time. Go for suicide belt and evade all damage. Get siphoner infused leather for even more evasion. Evasive maneuvers might work better that stuntman also available earlier. Knives are picked because of high dex.