Author Topic: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far  (Read 4402 times)

Arclightshock

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My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« on: April 17, 2014, 05:35:45 pm »
So far I've really enjoyed the new update.  It's been incredibly fun exploring new areas, doing new quests, finding and/or crafting new items (the shield emitter is my favorite so far but I do like the tabi boots too), and meeting new characters.  I think camp hathor and meeting the rat king have been my favorite parts so far but the foundry was pretty neat too.  I'm glad that merchants are more lenient about what they buy from you but I still find their limited ability to buy stuff from me somewhat stifling in the early game.  In the late game I started finding weapons and devices that I could sell for more than they had even along with a ton of stuff I wanted from them but it's still pretty harsh in the early game.  Perhaps they just buy what they want at full price and anything else that fits their theme (arms dealers, doctors, electronics merchants, ect.) but at, say, 10% the standard price?  That way we can still make a little extra money if we bothered to cart back a few more goodies and who is going to turn down perfectly good items at 10% price that they can then sell at full price?  Just a thought of course.  Something I'd also love to see from this game, a survival mode for those of us who would like a more hardcore suvival experience.  The ability to harvest meat from more animals, items such as portable cookers and water purifiers, hunger and thrist bars, stuff like that.  Just something that can be turned on or off at the character creation screen so only those who want it can have it.  Something that would be really nifty as well would be a secondary skill bar.  Perhaps a button on the left to click between them so I don't have to open the skill menu or my inventory to use a skill or an item that doesn't fit into the skill bar.  All in all I like the directioin the game is taking and as always I'm looking forward most to having a larger and larger game world to explore.  Keep up the good work!

Elhazzared

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 07:19:26 pm »
Having merchants buy at 10% the price makes it feel like you are being robbed. Similarly it also makes you feel robbed for not having them buy everything. It's like, I'm exploring, killing and getting everything and what do i get for my troubles? A full inventory and that's it. That is my only gripe with this game. For a game that is supposed to have a high emphasis in exploration, you aren't rewarded when you explore because you what find is highly likelly to be stuff you don't need and that you just can't sell anyway... As it stands the game feels like it's meant to be played by rushing only the mian missions to the end and that's about it. That's a very shallow experience, unrewarding and not meriting more than a playthrough.

Arclightshock

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 08:06:54 pm »
So basically you posted this just to crap on the game and on me for liking it.  Productive.

Obviously I disagree entirely.  How would you like it if you were trying to run a gun business and some idiot came by with a bunch of bloody animal skins and expected top dollar for them?  I personally like the direction the game is going with merchants (and obviously you didn't read my whole comment as I said the 10% buying would be for stuff they're not looking to stock but still fits their theme, they'd still pay full price for whatever they're asking for).  I never feel rushed to get to the current end game, I take my time exploring every nook and cranny and doing every job I have an opportunity to do and by the time I'm done I have over 2000 charons to spare and really nothing left to buy.  I also think it's utterly ridiculous to judge a game's depth when it's in an alpha state but hey, that's just me.  I like it so far, there are things that need to be worked on but so far I'm looking forward to every update and the opportunity to explore more.  If you feel differently more power to you but don't bother bringing all the negative crap that's negative for the sake of being negative to me, I don't design the game so really you're just trying to make me feel bad about liking it.

Elhazzared

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 02:49:46 am »
While not trying to be rude here, but if you can't take a comment on a forum, perhaps you shouldn't post in the first place. It was just an honest opinion, whether you agree or not it's your own chosing of course, but I don't see how debating something is ever negative... You said yourself you don't like merchants not buying everything, I discorded on the point of them buying at 10% the value cause the value is so low that it's just not worth the trouble of getting everything, going back and forth repetitively to sell what's on the inventory. It's busy work, it feels much like an MMO telling you to do fetch quests.

Now you give a real life example but here's the thing. This is not real life, it is a game. Does it makes sense that you kill an enemy and you level up and suddenly you know how to do something new? Of course not, that's not how it works in real life. But, it makes sense in a game!

Having multiple sellers, each one selling a particular type of item is not because it makes sense. You could put just a seller and everything is bought to him, the reason why it isn't so is because it becomes a major pain in ass to scroll through everything, multiple sellers are just tabs to separate item types. It also gives a sense that yeah, it's how it would work in a real world so it gives some immersion to the game, but ultimatly, it's all about having less cluter.

As for selling, let's go by parts here. Let's say for example they just buy every single piece of equipment so long as it's compactible (no limits to number). Would it make sense in a real world perspective? Yes. Is it necessary in a game? No. It just makes busy work going in between all of them to sell your stuff. If you could just go to one, sell everything at the same price and go back to exploring the world and doing the things which are fun in the game, wouldn't that craft a better experience?

As for selling limits what does this means? Well it means that a lot of your loot is going to just turn useless. The major objective of exploring is finding new stuff and conquer new challenges, however if all of those challenges give you nothing it makes the experience void. I personally would find myself wondering, why did i go through all the trouble of coming here, kill everything that moved, search every corner of this part of the map and get nothing for my efforths? This is the risk/reward factor, although you could add time to it as well since exploration does takes it's time... So if you expect to be rewarded for exploring as it is the major driving force of it, then the merchants not buying everything means that exploring is not rewarding you because you are not getting anything out of your explorarion... If you go through the main storyline only, you are still going to get way more loot than you can sell and yes, you probably are not going to run out of money,so exploring which will yield more loot is just going to be yielding nothing. Maybe XP but XP alone is hardly a driving force. If you need to go out of your way to grind XP then the feel is that the game isn't well paced.

In fact if there is a huge worry about it looking as real as possible then just slightly tweek the system into a way that would fit in the world and makes a high degree of sense.

You could for example have merchants only sell you stuff. They don't buy absolutly anything from you. Now because we're talking about a post apocaliptic world, resources are scarse so no matter what it is, it's always in demand, heck if you have 300 pelts. They are still in high demand and useful... Why? Because putting things into perspective, there are several cities so even if you don't need as much, that's ok because background wise all of that stuff can be traded in between cities to cover for stuff they are lacking. Thus demand never faulters... Now how do you sell stuff then? Well you have a storehouse which buys everything and always at the same price (because demand does not goes away). You sell everything there and go to the merchants to buy whatever you want... Background wise the storehouse is responsible for keeping the stores supplied and bartering with other cities for necessary goods... It is so incredibly easy to just make a system that works. You can sell everything and at the same location. You keep the merchants so each sells it's own type of stuff, thus you remove cluter of having it all in one guy.

Last but not least. I really like this game. I bought it back when there was no weight limits and merchants bought everything and you know what I thought back then? Best looking game ever since fallout 2. I was genuinely happy for no carry limits and merchants buying everything. It kept me away from wasting time going back and forth to sell my stuff. It kept me immersed because I didn't need to stop half way through a map just to unload stuff or going between several merchants and still have loads of loot left at the end of it... All this immersion is now lost to me and worse than that, it just makes the game feel like it doesn't respects your time because the time you are putting into it is just being thrown away by the lack of rewards.

Arclightshock

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 03:08:50 am »
I've been playing this game from that far back as well so don't try to pull some kind of seniority card simply because you've been on the forums for longer.  Secondly my post was very positive, offered constructive criticism, and I offered my own suggestions for alleviating some of what I found worthy of criticism in the game rather than just stating my general dissatisfaction and demanding that it be changed to suit ME like a spoiled child, all in a friendly and positive way.  Then along you come and basically just say not only are my ideas worthless (at least concerning merchants) but you criticize the game in a very nonconstructive and negative manner.  I appreciate that you took the time to spell out how you feel about it in a more detailed and not quite so mean spirited  manner (other than the back handed remarks about me personally at the start) as you did with your first post but that doesn't change the fact that we disagree, that I will continue to disagree with you, and that I will continue to have fun despite your fervent attempts to convince me that I shouldn't.

For the record, keep snide comments about my inability to take comments to yourself.  I responded to a negative comment negatively, you responded to a positive comment negatively.  If you can't even take positive and constructive feedback (especially feedback that wasn't even directed at you in the first place) that doesn't match your own opinions then maybe you're the one who should not be posting on forums.  Glass houses and all that.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 03:12:33 am by Arclightshock »

Vanya

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 03:35:41 am »
I dont think you understand how forums work

Elhazzared

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 04:33:37 am »
So it is negative criticism when a person disagrees with an idea... Right.  I guess I should stop wasting my time with you then... I never really meant to chage your opinion, it was already formed, I sought to debate the matter but nevermind, you are not of the mindset debate anything, just self righteous.

Styg

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 10:33:54 am »
Elhazzared, you made your opinion on the trading and carry capacity well known through multiple threads already. There's no need to flood every thread that mentions it with the wall of text that offers nothing new.

Fenix

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 05:48:36 pm »
Guys, why do not you use the paragraphs?
It's difficult to read wall of text for not native speakers, and difficult in general.

fakum12

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 02:31:40 pm »
I think the carry capacity is well balanced. I do run into the limit quite often, but since I opted to be a pack rathound it got better.
The trading has improved a lot, especially if you use the crafting system a lot (is it just me or has the rarity of weapon frame significantly increased?).
But imho it's on a good track now. Still some fine tuning needed but it get's there. Underrail has a postapocalyptic feel and I think it fits (especially in the "poorer" areas) that merchants do not buy everything they are offered. The 10% option Arclightshock is suggestion sounds nice for "rich" merchants. Or for a pawn shop.

Jazhara7

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Re: My thoughts on 0.1.11.0 so far
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 03:10:00 pm »
I am quite happy with the carry capacity and the merchant system. I think Arclightshock's idea with the reduced price selling of items that fit the merchant's theme is a good idea. Then again, I have so much money by now, it doesn't really make much of a difference any more.  :P 8 full stacks of Stygian coins and another with 117, and two full stacks SGS plus one with 616.

What I usually do is recycle and convert anything I can into repair kits, which I use to repair my own stuff. What I can't convert because I don't have a high enough skill level, I try to sell. I don't bother with repairing the items I try to sell any longer, because by now most merchants can't pay for all the treasures I've amassed. I am still exploring, and even finding places I haven't been still.

I hit the level cap recently, in oddity mode. However, I've been playing on easy. Next update I'm going to try normal or hard. Right now I'm punching Crawlers, Psi Beetles and Rathound Alphas with my bare fists, and I didn't even focus on a melee build, but rather a stealth and diplomacy one. I used to play Fallout the same way, trying to avoid conflict...*sighs* playing the game without firing a single shot, at a human being, or sometimes even creature...)