Difference between revisions of "Talk:Dexterity"

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:Your previous additions to the table seem to be correct. The RR numbers should be okay as well. There shouldn't be any weird voodoo magic in the game's calculations, decimals just have to be truncated instead of rounded. - [[User:Epeli|epeli]] ([[User talk:Epeli|talk]]) 07:46, 22 March 2016 (CDT)
 
:Your previous additions to the table seem to be correct. The RR numbers should be okay as well. There shouldn't be any weird voodoo magic in the game's calculations, decimals just have to be truncated instead of rounded. - [[User:Epeli|epeli]] ([[User talk:Epeli|talk]]) 07:46, 22 March 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
== New AP reduction table ==
 +
 +
The new table, while accurate, is not very user friendly.
 +
In fact, lots of finesse from the old table is lost with this revision.
 +
 +
While is is OK, as a band aid, better user friendly solution needs to be added. --[[User:Player1|Player1]] ([[User talk:Player1|talk]]) 14:26, 19 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
:I agree completely. As always, feel free to change anything as you see fit. I just wanted to get the data out there. I also added a simple row highlighting css to make large numeric tables slightly less awful, but I'm not sure if that's working yet. (You can force a refresh by changing your skin to vector at [[Special:preferences|preferences]].) - [[User:Epeli|epeli]] ([[User talk:Epeli|talk]]) 15:43, 19 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
::One small improvement should be removing 1-5 base AP cost from the table, since no weapon starts with at. The lowest base AP I think is 8, but lets keep 6-7 as buffer for now. [[User:Player1|Player1]] ([[User talk:Player1|talk]]) 00:15, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
::Also, personally I'm more in favor of table where DEX is at the tab of the table (like old table). [[User:Player1|Player1]] ([[User talk:Player1|talk]]) 00:19, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
:::I originally had dex as columns and ap as rows, but I consider this to be a better option. If the axis are reversed, the list is too long to fit on a screen at any common resolution. Even if you remove all AP costs that no weapon ''currently'' has. You have to scroll back and forth to see the dexterity values. See below. The old chart had the same problem.
 +
 +
:::But the real problem with its layout was the unnecessary data duplication from trying to keep up with every single weapon model and some feat/item combos. It makes the chart harder to maintain and thus more error-prone over time. To clarify, I have nothing against the old style. I simply don't want to maintain it. So if you wish to bring the old style back and keep updating it, [[wikipedia:WP:BOLD|go for it]]! - [[User:Epeli|epeli]] ([[User talk:Epeli|talk]]) 02:43, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
::::With lower then 1080p resolution (or with zoom), current table also does not fit the screen. And scrolling to right is more jarring then scolling down. --[[User:Player1|Player1]] ([[User talk:Player1|talk]]) 14:22, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
 +
 +
:::::I somehow missed your reply last year, deeply sorry about that. I did test the chart at lowest horizontal desktop resolution that was still reasonably common at the time (1280px, low-end netbooks) and it fit nicely, but you have a point about zoom and user preferences. I see you haven't added your vertical chart variation to the main article, but IMO it's good and low maintenance enough to have as an option. Awfully late, but better now than never. - [[User:Epeli|epeli]] ([[User talk:Epeli|talk]]) 21:03, 10 October 2017 (CDT)
 +
 +
=== new table with cols/rows reversed ===
 +
{| class="wikitable row-highlight mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="text-align:right;"
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="18"|yet another dex/ap table
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="2" rowspan="2"| !!colspan="16"| Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
! 1-5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
 +
|-
 +
!rowspan="51"|<div style="transform:rotate(-90deg); width:2em;">&nbsp;<span style="position:absolute;">Base&nbsp;Action&nbsp;Point&nbsp;cost</span></div>
 +
|-
 +
!width="2em"|  1
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  2
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  3
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  4
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  5
 +
|  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  6
 +
|  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  7
 +
|  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  8
 +
|  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  9
 +
|  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
! 10
 +
| 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5
 +
|-
 +
! 11
 +
| 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6
 +
|-
 +
! 12
 +
| 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6
 +
|-
 +
! 13
 +
| 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7
 +
|-
 +
! 14
 +
| 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7
 +
|-
 +
! 15
 +
| 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8
 +
|-
 +
! 16
 +
| 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8
 +
|-
 +
! 17
 +
| 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9
 +
|-
 +
! 18
 +
| 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9
 +
|-
 +
! 19
 +
| 19 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10
 +
|-
 +
! 20
 +
| 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11
 +
|-
 +
! 21
 +
| 21 || 20 || 19 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11
 +
|-
 +
! 22
 +
| 22 || 21 || 20 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12 || 12
 +
|-
 +
! 23
 +
| 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12
 +
|-
 +
! 24
 +
| 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 13 || 13
 +
|-
 +
! 25
 +
| 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 13
 +
|-
 +
! 26
 +
| 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14
 +
|-
 +
! 27
 +
| 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 14
 +
|-
 +
! 28
 +
| 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 15
 +
|-
 +
! 29
 +
| 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 15
 +
|-
 +
! 30
 +
| 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 16
 +
|-
 +
! 31
 +
| 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 17
 +
|-
 +
! 32
 +
| 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17
 +
|-
 +
! 33
 +
| 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18
 +
|-
 +
! 34
 +
| 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18
 +
|-
 +
! 35
 +
| 35 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19
 +
|-
 +
! 36
 +
| 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 21 || 20 || 19
 +
|-
 +
! 37
 +
| 37 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 38
 +
| 38 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 39
 +
| 39 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21
 +
|-
 +
! 40
 +
| 40 || 38 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22
 +
|-
 +
! 41
 +
| 41 || 39 || 38 || 37 || 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 23 || 22
 +
|-
 +
! 42
 +
| 42 || 40 || 39 || 38 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23
 +
|-
 +
! 43
 +
| 43 || 41 || 40 || 39 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 24 || 23
 +
|-
 +
! 44
 +
| 44 || 42 || 41 || 40 || 38 || 37 || 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25 || 24
 +
|-
 +
! 45
 +
| 45 || 43 || 42 || 40 || 39 || 38 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 24
 +
|-
 +
! 46
 +
| 46 || 44 || 43 || 41 || 40 || 39 || 37 || 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25
 +
|-
 +
! 47
 +
| 47 || 45 || 44 || 42 || 41 || 39 || 38 || 37 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 25
 +
|-
 +
! 48
 +
| 48 || 46 || 45 || 43 || 42 || 40 || 39 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 27 || 26
 +
|-
 +
! 49
 +
| 49 || 47 || 46 || 44 || 43 || 41 || 40 || 38 || 37 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 29 || 28 || 26
 +
|-
 +
! 50
 +
| 50 || 48 || 47 || 45 || 44 || 42 || 41 || 39 || 38 || 36 || 35 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 27
 +
|}
 +
 +
== Another variant of table with cols/rows reversed ==
 +
 +
{| class="wikitable row-highlight mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="text-align:right;"
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="18"|Another variant of table with cols/rows reversed
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="2" rowspan="2"| !!colspan="16"| Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
! 1-5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
 +
|-
 +
!rowspan="59"|<div style="transform:rotate(-90deg); width:2em;">&nbsp;<span style="position:absolute;">Base&nbsp;Action&nbsp;Point&nbsp;cost</span></div>
 +
|-
 +
!width="2em"|  1
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  2
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  3
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  4
 +
|  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  5
 +
|  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  6
 +
|  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  7
 +
|  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  8
 +
|  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4 ||  4 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
!  9
 +
|  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5 ||  5 ||  4
 +
|-
 +
! 10
 +
| 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6 ||  5 ||  5
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="1" rowspan="2"| !!colspan="16"| Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
! 1-5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 11
 +
| 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6 ||  6
 +
|-
 +
! 12
 +
| 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  6 ||  6
 +
|-
 +
! 13
 +
| 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7 ||  7 ||  7
 +
|-
 +
! 14
 +
| 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8 ||  8 ||  7
 +
|-
 +
! 15
 +
| 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8 ||  8
 +
|-
 +
! 16
 +
| 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9 ||  8
 +
|-
 +
! 17
 +
| 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9 ||  9
 +
|-
 +
! 18
 +
| 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 10 || 10 ||  9
 +
|-
 +
! 19
 +
| 19 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 13 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11 || 10
 +
|-
 +
! 20
 +
| 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11 || 11
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="1" rowspan="2"| !!colspan="16"| Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
! 1-5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 21
 +
| 21 || 20 || 19 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12 || 12 || 11
 +
|-
 +
! 22
 +
| 22 || 21 || 20 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12 || 12
 +
|-
 +
! 23
 +
| 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 14 || 13 || 12
 +
|-
 +
! 24
 +
| 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 13 || 13
 +
|-
 +
! 25
 +
| 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 16 || 15 || 14 || 13
 +
|-
 +
! 26
 +
| 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 15 || 14
 +
|-
 +
! 27
 +
| 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 15 || 14
 +
|-
 +
! 28
 +
| 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 17 || 16 || 15
 +
|-
 +
! 29
 +
| 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 16 || 15
 +
|-
 +
! 30
 +
| 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 16
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="1" rowspan="2"| !!colspan="16"| Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
! 1-5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 31
 +
| 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17 || 17
 +
|-
 +
! 32
 +
| 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18 || 17
 +
|-
 +
! 33
 +
| 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18
 +
|-
 +
! 34
 +
| 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19 || 18
 +
|-
 +
! 35
 +
| 35 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20 || 19
 +
|-
 +
! 36
 +
| 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 21 || 20 || 19
 +
|-
 +
! 37
 +
| 37 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 38
 +
| 38 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 39
 +
| 39 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 24 || 23 || 22 || 21
 +
|-
 +
! 40
 +
| 40 || 38 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23 || 22
 +
|-
 +
!colspan="1" rowspan="2"| !!colspan="16"| Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
! 1-5 || 6 || 7 || 8 || 9 || 10 || 11 || 12 || 13 || 14 || 15 || 16 || 17 || 18 || 19 || 20
 +
|-
 +
! 41
 +
| 41 || 39 || 38 || 37 || 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 29 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 25 || 23 || 22
 +
|-
 +
! 42
 +
| 42 || 40 || 39 || 38 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 33 || 31 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25 || 24 || 23
 +
|-
 +
! 43
 +
| 43 || 41 || 40 || 39 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 33 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 24 || 23
 +
|-
 +
! 44
 +
| 44 || 42 || 41 || 40 || 38 || 37 || 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25 || 24
 +
|-
 +
! 45
 +
| 45 || 43 || 42 || 40 || 39 || 38 || 36 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 26 || 24
 +
|-
 +
! 46
 +
| 46 || 44 || 43 || 41 || 40 || 39 || 37 || 36 || 34 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 28 || 26 || 25
 +
|-
 +
! 47
 +
| 47 || 45 || 44 || 42 || 41 || 39 || 38 || 37 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 30 || 28 || 27 || 25
 +
|-
 +
! 48
 +
| 48 || 46 || 45 || 43 || 42 || 40 || 39 || 37 || 36 || 35 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 27 || 26
 +
|-
 +
! 49
 +
| 49 || 47 || 46 || 44 || 43 || 41 || 40 || 38 || 37 || 35 || 34 || 32 || 31 || 29 || 28 || 26
 +
|-
 +
! 50
 +
| 50 || 48 || 47 || 45 || 44 || 42 || 41 || 39 || 38 || 36 || 35 || 33 || 32 || 30 || 29 || 27
 +
|}
 +
 +
Variant with more readable DEX columns. [[User:Player1|Player1]] ([[User talk:Player1|talk]]) 14:32, 20 April 2016 (CDT)

Latest revision as of 21:03, 10 October 2017

Mini-Izu

Someone should do AP calculations for Mini-Izu.

OK, I've added the info based on current formula, but it would be good idea for someone to verify this. --Player1 (talk) 17:15, 20 February 2016 (CST)

Rapid Reloader

I've added AP costs with rapid reloader for Pistols and SMG. Can someone verify if I haven't done any mistake? Player1 (talk) 22:16, 21 March 2016 (CDT)

Your previous additions to the table seem to be correct. The RR numbers should be okay as well. There shouldn't be any weird voodoo magic in the game's calculations, decimals just have to be truncated instead of rounded. - epeli (talk) 07:46, 22 March 2016 (CDT)

New AP reduction table

The new table, while accurate, is not very user friendly. In fact, lots of finesse from the old table is lost with this revision.

While is is OK, as a band aid, better user friendly solution needs to be added. --Player1 (talk) 14:26, 19 April 2016 (CDT)

I agree completely. As always, feel free to change anything as you see fit. I just wanted to get the data out there. I also added a simple row highlighting css to make large numeric tables slightly less awful, but I'm not sure if that's working yet. (You can force a refresh by changing your skin to vector at preferences.) - epeli (talk) 15:43, 19 April 2016 (CDT)
One small improvement should be removing 1-5 base AP cost from the table, since no weapon starts with at. The lowest base AP I think is 8, but lets keep 6-7 as buffer for now. Player1 (talk) 00:15, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
Also, personally I'm more in favor of table where DEX is at the tab of the table (like old table). Player1 (talk) 00:19, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
I originally had dex as columns and ap as rows, but I consider this to be a better option. If the axis are reversed, the list is too long to fit on a screen at any common resolution. Even if you remove all AP costs that no weapon currently has. You have to scroll back and forth to see the dexterity values. See below. The old chart had the same problem.
But the real problem with its layout was the unnecessary data duplication from trying to keep up with every single weapon model and some feat/item combos. It makes the chart harder to maintain and thus more error-prone over time. To clarify, I have nothing against the old style. I simply don't want to maintain it. So if you wish to bring the old style back and keep updating it, go for it! - epeli (talk) 02:43, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
With lower then 1080p resolution (or with zoom), current table also does not fit the screen. And scrolling to right is more jarring then scolling down. --Player1 (talk) 14:22, 20 April 2016 (CDT)
I somehow missed your reply last year, deeply sorry about that. I did test the chart at lowest horizontal desktop resolution that was still reasonably common at the time (1280px, low-end netbooks) and it fit nicely, but you have a point about zoom and user preferences. I see you haven't added your vertical chart variation to the main article, but IMO it's good and low maintenance enough to have as an option. Awfully late, but better now than never. - epeli (talk) 21:03, 10 October 2017 (CDT)

new table with cols/rows reversed

yet another dex/ap table
Dexterity
1-5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
 Base Action Point cost
1 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
2 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
6 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4
8 8 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 4
9 9 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 4
10 10 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 5 5
11 11 10 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 7 6 6 6
12 12 11 11 10 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 6
13 13 12 12 11 11 11 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 7 7 7
14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 11 10 10 9 9 8 8 8 7
15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 10 9 9 8 8
16 16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 9 9 8
17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 9 9
18 18 17 16 16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 10 10 9
19 19 18 17 17 16 16 15 15 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10
20 20 19 18 18 17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 12 12 11 11
21 21 20 19 19 18 17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 12 12 11
22 22 21 20 20 19 18 18 17 16 16 15 14 14 13 12 12
23 23 22 21 20 20 19 18 18 17 16 16 15 14 14 13 12
24 24 23 22 21 21 20 19 18 18 17 16 16 15 14 13 13
25 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 19 18 17 16 16 15 14 13
26 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 18 17 16 15 15 14
27 27 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 18 17 16 15 14
28 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 17 17 16 15
29 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15
30 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 21 20 19 18 17 16
31 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 17
32 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17
33 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18
34 34 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18
35 35 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19
36 36 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 21 20 19
37 37 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 25 24 23 22 21 20
38 38 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 20
39 39 37 36 35 34 33 31 30 29 28 27 26 24 23 22 21
40 40 38 37 36 35 34 32 31 30 29 28 26 25 24 23 22
41 41 39 38 37 36 34 33 32 31 29 28 27 26 25 23 22
42 42 40 39 38 36 35 34 33 31 30 29 28 26 25 24 23
43 43 41 40 39 37 36 35 33 32 31 30 28 27 26 24 23
44 44 42 41 40 38 37 36 34 33 32 30 29 28 26 25 24
45 45 43 42 40 39 38 36 35 34 32 31 30 28 27 26 24
46 46 44 43 41 40 39 37 36 34 33 32 30 29 28 26 25
47 47 45 44 42 41 39 38 37 35 34 32 31 30 28 27 25
48 48 46 45 43 42 40 39 37 36 35 33 32 30 29 27 26
49 49 47 46 44 43 41 40 38 37 35 34 32 31 29 28 26
50 50 48 47 45 44 42 41 39 38 36 35 33 32 30 29 27

Another variant of table with cols/rows reversed

Another variant of table with cols/rows reversed
Dexterity
1-5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
 Base Action Point cost
1 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
2 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
6 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 4
8 8 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 4
9 9 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5 5 4
10 10 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 5 5
Dexterity
1-5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
11 11 10 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 7 6 6 6
12 12 11 11 10 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 8 7 7 6 6
13 13 12 12 11 11 11 10 10 9 9 9 8 8 7 7 7
14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 11 10 10 9 9 8 8 8 7
15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 10 9 9 8 8
16 16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 9 9 8
17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10 10 9 9
18 18 17 16 16 15 15 14 14 13 13 12 12 11 10 10 9
19 19 18 17 17 16 16 15 15 14 13 13 12 12 11 11 10
20 20 19 18 18 17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 12 12 11 11
Dexterity
1-5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 21 20 19 19 18 17 17 16 15 15 14 14 13 12 12 11
22 22 21 20 20 19 18 18 17 16 16 15 14 14 13 12 12
23 23 22 21 20 20 19 18 18 17 16 16 15 14 14 13 12
24 24 23 22 21 21 20 19 18 18 17 16 16 15 14 13 13
25 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 19 18 17 16 16 15 14 13
26 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 18 17 16 15 15 14
27 27 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 18 17 16 15 14
28 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 17 17 16 15
29 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15
30 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 21 20 19 18 17 16
Dexterity
1-5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
31 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 17
32 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17
33 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18
34 34 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18
35 35 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19
36 36 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 21 20 19
37 37 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 25 24 23 22 21 20
38 38 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 20
39 39 37 36 35 34 33 31 30 29 28 27 26 24 23 22 21
40 40 38 37 36 35 34 32 31 30 29 28 26 25 24 23 22
Dexterity
1-5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
41 41 39 38 37 36 34 33 32 31 29 28 27 26 25 23 22
42 42 40 39 38 36 35 34 33 31 30 29 28 26 25 24 23
43 43 41 40 39 37 36 35 33 32 31 30 28 27 26 24 23
44 44 42 41 40 38 37 36 34 33 32 30 29 28 26 25 24
45 45 43 42 40 39 38 36 35 34 32 31 30 28 27 26 24
46 46 44 43 41 40 39 37 36 34 33 32 30 29 28 26 25
47 47 45 44 42 41 39 38 37 35 34 32 31 30 28 27 25
48 48 46 45 43 42 40 39 37 36 35 33 32 30 29 27 26
49 49 47 46 44 43 41 40 38 37 35 34 32 31 29 28 26
50 50 48 47 45 44 42 41 39 38 36 35 33 32 30 29 27

Variant with more readable DEX columns. Player1 (talk) 14:32, 20 April 2016 (CDT)

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