Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: eLPuSHeR on April 18, 2016, 01:54:44 pm
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(Or how to be an annoying pest for poor Wildan :P)
I am asking for this particular build because I am quite intrigued about pistol viability when compared to SMGs after latest v1.0.1.10.
IMHO SMGs are way better than pistols, but I just want to find a viable pistol build (I know it can be done).
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http://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/558746995146941813/#p2
Here he posted two pistol builds. But that was other patch so it's not up to date.
Whats left? "Unarmed build from Wildan" or "Thrower build from Wildan" ? :P
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Thank you very much. Interesting read. 8)
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http://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/558746995146941813/#p2
Here he posted two pistol builds. But that was other patch so it's not up to date.
Whats left? "Unarmed build from Wildan" or "Thrower build from Wildan" ? :P
That would make sense. Both options got nerfed so we need an expert to tell us how to make them viable.
Pistols apparently were not nerfed enough in the past :o
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Doing fine so far. I am level 6 and I have arrived at GMS Compound.
Starting stats:
STR 6, DEX 9, AGI 6, CON 3, PER 10, WIL 3, INT 3
Starting feats: Gunslinger and Recklessness
Progression feats: Opportunist, Steadfast Aim, Aimed Shot.
I plan on getting Sharpshooter ASAP.
Right now I have made a custom made 5mm Neo Luger and I also have got a .44 hammerer with 31% hit chance (seeker goggles).
I intend to invest in crafting so I increased INT to 4 at Level 4 (intending to increase it at least to 6, then all points to DEX).
From here, I am not sure on how to proceed, specially for crowd control (I might be getting Quick Tinkering soon, Grenadier or both).
I will also be investing heavily in electronics to create some nice electroshock/high crit plasma pistols and some shields. I also intend to craft some smart .44 hammerer and/or smart 9mm Falchion to increase crit chance/bonus. That's why I am wearing seeker goggles instead of smart ones.
Opinions are welcome.
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You probably want to check
http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dexterity
to see how many attacks you get per dex to figure out what pistol is best.
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I think chart is not updated yet for new patch.
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Well it is.
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Ugh... not good. It lost all the finesse of the old table.
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So with gunslinger and rapidreloader to fire three times with .44 hammerer you need 14 dex.
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Does anybody know if stunning a foe with a electroshock pistol counts for the execute feat to trigger? I haven't got it yet but I am still missing the "hitman" achievement.
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You mean on the same shot that stun target?
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No. You stun it first and then use another weapon for Executing.
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Actually there are quite a few players that have more experience with pistols than me as I haven't played with them since the dec release for I was disappointed how much they got nerfed. Still, the recent DEX bonus change didn't hit the (firearm) pistols as hard as it hit SMGs so I'd say compared to the rest of the light weapons, pistols are actually a viable choice now (Gunslinger got back to -3 AP). Only thing I wish would happen is dropping the STR requirement from Steadfast Aim to make Hammerer pistols a better choice than they are now. To me pistols are weapons that instead of relying on pure stopping power exploit enemy weaknesses (critical hits) and a critical damage pistol builds seem rather underwhelming nowdays. Wasting 3 STR only for that feat is too much, at least for the firearms.
Anyway, as for the recommended build I think the most important thing is to exactly plan ahead how many pistol shots will you be able to fit in. A smart, rapid 9mm Neo Luger is still the best choice. The 25 AP cost gets down to 20 with rapid reloader. Before the recent patch, with this pistol you could get down to 8 AP per shot @ 17 DEX (-48%) and Gunslinger (-2 AP). Now fastest is 9 AP @ 17 DEX (-36%) and Gunslinger (-3 AP). It's much better to aim for 10 AP @ 16 DEX as 9 AP won't give you a single extra shot (even if you take Point Shot and Rapid Fire into account). For the secondary weapon I'd recommend the amplified Electroshock Pistol because it gets down to 20 AP per shot @16 DEX (Gunslinger doesn't apply), so you will have easy time chosing the attacks as the AP cost can always be divided by 5 and you can use all of your available AP:
20 AP for Electroshock Pistol
10 AP for Neo Luger
15 AP for Rapid Fire or Execute (Neo Luger)
5 AP for Point Shot (Neo Luger)
10 AP for reloading (or 2 AP with the bullet strap belt so you can reload both weapons in one round for 4 AP. If you don't need to reload often it's better to equip the doctor belt instead.)
Remember that 16 DEX is earliest possible at level 22 (15 DEX + eel sandwich) so until this point it's probably a good idea to additionally carry a quick 7.62mm pistol. I'd actually recommend to stay at 15 DEX, rely on the eels for 16 and invest the last stat point in PER. At level 24 when you finally have 15 DEX, 6 AGI and 7 INT you will only have enough points for 9 PER. It doesn't matter though, Neo Luger has a 5% precission bonus and 10 PER would only be needed for Sharpshooter which is a poor choice here anyway. Neo Luger has weak criticals and you should try to make all your Aimed Shot special attacks with the Electroshock Pistol. To boost the critical damage you will take the Practical Physicist feat instead and craft the pistol with the circular wave amplifier.
Skillwise it should be pretty easy to distribute as you have plenty of points left even for high traps and throwing skill (Flashbang is great to open up for execute if you don't have enough AP for Electroshock Pistol).
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/223d/xhbnagpwodwb77hzg.jpg)
For a firearms critical damage pistol build Steadfast Aim just doesn't seen to be worth it thanks to 6 STR requirement and only 0.5% increase for every base AP point. For a RR Hammerer it's just 12%. Not that great, and if you take Steadfast Aim can't have all - high DEX, 10 PER, and 7 INT. I'd dump INT in this case.
As an alternative you could entirely go for energy weapons as there is least resistance against it in the Underrail but now because of the DEX nerf you need whopping 17 DEX to fire the plasma pistol twice the round. But in order to keep Sprint go for : 6 STR, 15 DEX, 6 AGI, 6 PER, 7 INT and make use of Point Shot.
With Practical Physicist an amplified plasma pistol can do 500+ % of critical damage and Steadfast Aim gives you another 20% critchance so +crit googles are the better choice here, for firearms it's still the smart ones. For a secondary weapon it's probably best to take a laser pistol. It's still pretty quick to finish all the weak enemies (at 17 DEX you fire it for 5 times with 70 AP).
It could also pay off to dip into Psychokinesis PSI for free premeditated Electrokinesis stuns (great for Execute). One other useful PSI related feat would be Psychostatic Electricity to bump your critical chance even further. You can also craft and consume focus stims to get very, very high. I believe that you can get the critchance over 80% if you exploit everything you can. Still the question is how does it compares to other builds. DEX nerf was pretty heavy on plasma pistols. For 25 AP shots 14 DEX was enough, now you need 3 more. I hope to see Gunslinger working with energy and chemical pistols one day.
Still I think this build is very fun to play even if not the easiest one.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/fa37/b1vqn1ss7wc4hc4zg.jpg)
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Thank you very much Wildan. Really appreciated.
What I am seeing here is that my current pistol build is totally different than yours (I went the "steadfast aim" way, so I am suffering in the crafting department). it also seems there are several viable pistol builds (not surprising).
To be honest I am trying very hard to love pistols but I still prefer my Sniper/SMG build than anything else. Pistols still seem underwhelming for me, even with recent nerfs to SMGs. On my SMG playthrough I did both the Arena (invictus) and Gauntlet without any troubles (I am now fearing facing the same with pistols, as this pistol build doesn't have any backup weapon [probably getting a sniper rifle ASAP]).
One issue I have on my current pistol playthrough is that overall damage from normal pistols (not energy ones) doesn't seem to be that good when compared to SMGs found/crafted at same level (8) and pistols still require a lot more AP to shoot. .44 hammerer seems quite "hit and miss" (it gets a lot better with "rapid fire" though), but still....
Another issue that is killing me is the brutal randomness for crafting materials in the game. I mean both for random loot and in merchants inventories. I am level 10 I think and I haven't come across any Falchion frame yet nor rapid reloaded either. This quite defeats the purpose on crafting but I don't want to whine too much... XD
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Funny thing about pistols...
If you get character build that is specialized for pistols with STR6, wouldn't he actually better perform, by just getting AR for shorter range and sniper for long range?
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Funny thing about pistols...
If you get character build that is specialized for pistols with STR6, wouldn't he actually better perform, by just getting AR for shorter range and sniper for long range?
If you want badass AR build try sniper-commando build that Wildan posted some months ago. Its better then tin-can metal gun with AR. I tried both.
Btw Neo-luger with gun nut dmg is 5 shots for 10ap and dmg 22-34 = 110-170
Hornet rifle is 6 shots for 8ap and dmg 14-25 = 84-150
Those numbers are from wiki, im sure crafted will be higher.
And .44 hammerer with gun nut is 3 shots - 15-79 = 45-237
Spearhead sniper 38-83 x 2 = 76-166
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No. You stun it first and then use another weapon for Executing.
Then it should count.
I am level 10 I think and I haven't come across any Falchion frame yet nor rapid reloaded either. This quite defeats the purpose on crafting but I don't want to whine too much... XD
Try Blaine - he often get some, and in 50% frames he has has quality ~100.
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Yes a sniper riffle is an excellent sencondary weapon for many builds.
One can go for a medium DEX build too: 11 DEX (10 + eel) will bring the 9mm Hammerer down to 16 AP - 3 AP from Gunslinger further down to 13 AP. Investing only 10 points in DEX leaves lots of room for high PER so the sniper stays useful at long ranges.
13 AP per shot is a pretty sweet spot because of how the game handles AP calculation with Rapid Fire and Point Shot = If AP doesn't turn out to be a whole number the result gets truncated. In this case 13 AP +50% = 19,5 -> 19 AP for Rapid Fire, 13 AP - 50% -> 6,5 -> 6 AP for Point Shot.
You can see right away how 19 and 6 AP go well with an 24 AP RR Spearhead: Sniper shot + Rapid Fire + Point Shot for 49 AP, or just 2 sniper shots if the distance is too great for the pistol. Optimally it would be best to use the pistol every other round anyway because of Rapid Fire cooldown, otherwise it's 2 regular pistol shots vs 1 sniper and the later wins IMO.
Compared to SMGs I'm still not very fond of Hammerer critical builds. Yes they have 9mm available which has the best special ammo but 20 Base AP equals only 10% critical chance with Steadfast Aim and with regular hammerer bonus and Recklessness that equals 24% which doesn't make a huge difference. There are +crit googles ofcourse but it would be a waste not to pick the smart ones because of Snipe and Aimed Shot (sniper). When it comes to critical chance and damage I'd rather go for max possible (plasma pistol) or not at all. Pistols are not well suited for regular dps combat but for specialised damage like stuns + Execute, chemical and energy weapons. 25 AP for Rapid Fire and Point Shot loses vs what an SMG is cappable, even after the DEX nerf. It's still easy to make a 12 AP 8.6/7.62 mm or even 6 AP 5mm SMG and complement the sniper, plus there is the Commando feat.
No. You stun it first and then use another weapon for Executing.
Then it should count.
Electroshock pistol is banned from the Execute club anyway.
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Guys, what SMG nerfs are you talking about? I can't see anything other than DEX reduction to AP.
Oh BTW: there was a bug with Gunslinger that made it work with energy and chemical weapons as well. I just recently learned that Gunslinger was not supposed to work with energimp/chegimpal. Such a weird decision. I would not report it anyway because it was actually benefitting the game.
Not sure if it's still (theoretically) broken.
I'm glad to see Wildan and me agree about Gunslinger and Steadfast Aim.
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I am level 10 I think and I haven't come across any Falchion frame yet nor rapid reloaded either. This quite defeats the purpose on crafting but I don't want to whine too much... XD
Try Blaine - he often get some, and in 50% frames he has has quality ~100.
Hmm. It may sound stupid but WHO IS BLAINE? ::)
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@Wildan:
The more I read this topic, the less I like pistols. :P
@hilf:
Guys, what SMG nerfs are you talking about? I can't see anything other than DEX reduction to AP.
Yes, we are referring to that.
PS - I will keep going on for a little more with pistols (reaching old depot now) until I get fed up and return to my sniper/smg build.
PS2 . SO... SUMMING UP... Recommend me two pistols I should go with. Should I go for a very fast one on one hand (5mm) and a heavy slower one on the other hand (.44 hammerer)? Or should I go middle ground with a 7.62/9mm + energy one?. Or having two separate weapon loadouts... Hmpf. Pistols seem to be far more complicated than SMGs which, let's face it, are very straightforward.
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@hilf:
Guys, what SMG nerfs are you talking about? I can't see anything other than DEX reduction to AP.
Yes, we are referring to that.
Than why would SMGs be hit harder than pistols? Going from Uber Awesome to 'just' Awesome is not as bad as going from barely viable to crap. Or is the new Gunslinger, that affects 1 out of 3 pistols categories, that great? On my pistol build i didn't really feel like i needed more initiative, except arena champion fight.
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We are not talking about initiative here (attack turn) but AP required to shoot (number of shots per round). Yes, SMGs are still quite good even if somewhat nerfed in latest patches.
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I wonder what would be really better for bursts ARs vs SMG's. Noone did calculations so far. Hornet burst 9x 14-25 = 126-225. And you can burst 3 times a round with commando and rapid reloader so thats 378-675.
Now lets see 5mm Jaguar. 9x 8-13=72-117. With commando it will be 5 bursts so 360-585.
And Impala 7.62 can also reach 5 burts so lets see: 9x10-20=90-180 x 5 = 450-900!
Im too lazy to check steelcat but its same speed just 8-24 dmg. So dmg will be bigger then Impala.
However on SMG build you need 16 dex to get those numbers and your perception will be 8 vs 16 for AR's. So there is no clear answer what is better.
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PS2 . SO... SUMMING UP... Recommend me two pistols I should go with. Should I go for a very fast one on one hand (5mm) and a heavy slower one on the other hand (.44 hammerer)? Or should I go middle ground with a 7.62/9mm + energy one?. Or having two separate weapon loadouts... Hmpf. Pistols seem to be far more complicated than SMGs which, let's face it, are very straightforward.
All chemical and energy pistols should be avoided until Gunslinger is back to working on them. Unless you really love one trick ponies because that's what energy pistols are.
Energy is in theory very rarely resisted but in practice all of the hardest enemies: Spoilerless, Dreadbot, Final Boss are resistant to it. Oh, and energy shields are very effective vs them and are used by all those 1HKO snipers and Plasma Spoilers.
Yeah, pistols are more complicated and that's why they should be more powerful than simpler options but ... they are weaker.
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Funny thing about pistols...
If you get character build that is specialized for pistols with STR6, wouldn't he actually better perform, by just getting AR for shorter range and sniper for long range?
If you want badass AR build try sniper-commando build that Wildan posted some months ago. Its better then tin-can metal gun with AR. I tried both.
There is no doubt that specialized AR build will perform better. Been there done that.
What I'm talking about is that if you take pistol specialized build with STR6, and just switch to AR (that needs STR6), you will be more effective fighter (in many situations), then with pistol, which is plain weird.
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Than why would SMGs be hit harder than pistols? Going from Uber Awesome to 'just' Awesome is not as bad as going from barely viable to crap. Or is the new Gunslinger, that affects 1 out of 3 pistols categories, that great? On my pistol build i didn't really feel like i needed more initiative, except arena champion fight.
Because the new Gunslinger compensates faster pistols for decreased DEX bonus completely. Let's take 14 DEX and a 16 AP pistol as an example:
With old DEX formula it would get down to 10 AP and Gunslinger (-2) to 8. Now it get's down to 11 AP and Gunslinger (-3) to 8. So for faster pistols there is no difference at all. The change encourages the use of firearm pistols as a sidearm with low/mediocre DEX. Yes SMGs are still way better, nobody argues with that.
SO... SUMMING UP... Recommend me two pistols I should go with.
If you want to use firearms only stick to 15 DEX + eel and any best quality frame you can fit a 9mm on (10 AP per shot). For your secondary take the unique Bieretta 99 (http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bieretta_99) pistol. 5mm shock bullets are pretty g ood. Always do the special attacks (Aimed Shot, Rapid Fire, Point Shot, Execute) with your 9mm and with the rest of your AP spam with the 5mm. At 16 DEX it fires for 5 AP per shot so it's the fastest pistol in the game currently (except for RR 5mm hawker which sucks) but for the same reason you get virtually no critical chance from Steadfast aim which is 0.5% per AP above 10 (I thought it was just x 0.5 so it's worse than I remembered it), but as you see it shoots for exactly half the AP of the rapid 9mm so again, you have easy time min/maxing your AP pool.
The problem here is: You can't have 15 DEX, 6 AGI, 10 PER, and 7 INT. At level 24 there is 1 point missing so I'd drop INT and STR completely and invest into 11 PER, high AGI and replace Steadfast Aim with Uncanny Dodge for example.
Or you just play something else... Balancing seems to be an everchanging thing in Underrail. In alpha pistols used to be awesome, the crossbows lame, now it's exactly the other way around.
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I wonder what would be really better for bursts ARs vs SMG's. Noone did calculations so far. Hornet burst 9x 14-25 = 126-225. And you can burst 3 times a round with commando and rapid reloader so thats 378-675.
Now lets see 5mm Jaguar. 9x 8-13=72-117. With commando it will be 5 bursts so 360-585.
And Impala 7.62 can also reach 5 burts so lets see: 9x10-20=90-180 x 5 = 450-900!
Im too lazy to check steelcat but its same speed just 8-24 dmg. So dmg will be bigger then Impala.
However on SMG build you need 16 dex to get those numbers and your perception will be 8 vs 16 for AR's. So there is no clear answer what is better.
NOT SO FAST!
You must consider that Spec ops only applies to SMGs. Therefore, unless you somehow get additional AP per turn, AR can only burst twice per turn(with commando) because x3 AP cost for burst is pretty high.
I think optimal damage sweet spot of SMG burst can be met exactly at 7.62mm Jaguar, with rapid reloader(10 base AP cost per normal attack).
Then using only 9 Dex, 3 bursts per turn without commando is possible.
If you dump other stats to PER, then optimal damage output could be achieved.
Lastly, although this is irrelevant to this discussion but smart targetting lens attachment is better than the muzzle attachment after certain point.
Muzzle damage increase = 9(after muzzle)/7(before muzzle) = 1.286ish = 28.6% damage increase.
Which means "+29% increased damage with special attacks" is better than muzzle. Highly recommended if you have skills invested into electronics.
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reinhark, Hornet assult rifle with rapid reloader will burst for 24. So you can burst twice, three times with commando. Also SMGs like you said require to get dex to 9+ or even up to 16. But to see again, and check numbers.
Hornet burst 9x 14-25 = 126-225 x 3 = 378-675
Jaguar 7.62mm burst 9x10-20 = 90-180 x 4 = 360-720
Yes It is better. But you need to dump 6 extra points into dexterity to make it work and waste feat on Spec Ops.
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I still prefer SMGs over ARs, but both are quite good.
In the interim I have returned to my sweet Sniper/SMG build. No matter how hard I try pistols still seem underwhelming to me.
I have that build savegames archived though. I may retake it sometime in the future.
PS - One question for Reinhard, Eldakar, Wildan and anyone else... Due to AP requirements, is Jaguar SMG better than Impala?
I have invested heavily in crafting but I am unable to see the so called benefits of impala vs jaguar/steelcat. (maybe better damage on the lower margin).
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7.62mm Steel Cat if you go 16 dex. You still get 5 bursts with it with commando feat.
If you want to stay at 9 dex then Jaguar 7.62mm is best, it achives 4 bursts.
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I think I will be DEX 12 when I reach level 24. Now the question is to find a good quality non impala smg frame.
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reinhark, Hornet assult rifle with rapid reloader will burst for 24. So you can burst twice, three times with commando. Also SMGs like you said require to get dex to 9+ or even up to 16. But to see again, and check numbers.
Hornet burst 9x 14-25 = 126-225 x 3 = 378-675
Jaguar 7.62mm burst 9x10-20 = 90-180 x 4 = 360-720
Yes It is better. But you need to dump 6 extra points into dexterity to make it work and waste feat on Spec Ops.
I am pretty sure hornet takes 27 AP for burst...?(yes, using rapid reloader.)
http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Assault_Rifles
Since gun skill increases damage of guns, I wouldn't dump too much stat on DEX. Reload also eats away AP faster.
PS - One question for Reinhard, Eldakar, Wildan and anyone else... Due to AP requirements, is Jaguar SMG better than Impala?
I have invested heavily in crafting but I am unable to see the so called benefits of impala vs jaguar/steelcat. (maybe better damage on the lower margin).
It entirely depends on your build - but it is simple really, since this method applies for all weapons.
If AP reduction of weapon(TiChrome product or jaguar for SMG) happens to increase the number of "# of main DPS skill you can use per turn", then it is usually superior.
(of course, you need to consult AP table for this)
you have to run DPS calculation for weapons, if AP reduction doesn't do anything.
Innately high crit chance for your character means Steel cat is better.
Otherwise impala.
Since you are going for DEX 12, AP reduction of the jaguar does not matter, I think(unless you count AP to reload). 3~4 Bursts per turn for any 7.62mm SMG. In that case, I would just go for impala.
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Ok if thats the case so it is best to use difrent AR frame to get best burst + commando, since as you said Hornet burst is 27.
9mm Huszar will do 9x12-48 = 108-432 one burst + commando = 216-864
So as you see AR's are still very good since you conserve ammo.
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reinhark, Hornet assult rifle with rapid reloader will burst for 24. So you can burst twice, three times with commando. Also SMGs like you said require to get dex to 9+ or even up to 16. But to see again, and check numbers.
Hornet burst 9x 14-25 = 126-225 x 3 = 378-675
Jaguar 7.62mm burst 9x10-20 = 90-180 x 4 = 360-720
Yes It is better. But you need to dump 6 extra points into dexterity to make it work and waste feat on Spec Ops.
I am pretty sure hornet takes 27 AP for burst...?(yes, using rapid reloader.)
http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Assault_Rifles
Since gun skill increases damage of guns, I wouldn't dump too much stat on DEX. Reload also eats away AP faster.
PS - One question for Reinhard, Eldakar, Wildan and anyone else... Due to AP requirements, is Jaguar SMG better than Impala?
I have invested heavily in crafting but I am unable to see the so called benefits of impala vs jaguar/steelcat. (maybe better damage on the lower margin).
It entirely depends on your build - but it is simple really, since this method applies for all weapons.
If AP reduction of weapon(TiChrome product or jaguar for SMG) happens to increase the number of "# of main DPS skill you can use per turn", then it is usually superior.
(of course, you need to consult AP table for this)
you have to run DPS calculation for weapons, if AP reduction doesn't do anything.
Innately high crit chance for your character means Steel cat is better.
Otherwise impala.
Since you are going for DEX 12, AP reduction of the jaguar does not matter, I think(unless you count AP to reload). 3~4 Bursts per turn for any 7.62mm SMG. In that case, I would just go for impala.
Thanks. I have already purchased a good Impala frame from Blaine and I have crafted several smart iterations which are quite good tbh.
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What are dmg of your crafts? Does they differ much from underrail wiki?
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I don't know right now. I have to compare mine with the wiki. I don't remember if I took "gun nut" perk either.
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A RR Hornet AR will indeed burst for 27 AP because of 9 base AP x 3 = 27.
This is one of the very few inconsistencies in the game. When AP cost of anything gets modified by DEX, abilities, pneumatic reloader, rapid reloader - the value can end up not being an integer (whole number). AP cost will always get truncated like 16,8 -> 16 or 12.3 -> 12 except for the rapid reloader mod. It always rounds up to the nearest integer which is in the case of the Hornet riffle 11 - 20% = 8,8 -> 9.
Funny enough the pneumatic reloader which does the same thing for crossbows (decreases the AP cost by 15%) still get's truncated so a Cyclon crossbow will have 21 - 15% = 17,85 -> 17
I guess this was done on purpose to specifically prevent a RR hornet to burst twice or even use it once together with one shot of RR Spearhead sniper (24 AP). Otherwise together with Commando, Full Auto and Concentrated Fire it would overpower everything else easily. RR Hornet is still good as it is. Adrenaline shot lasts for 3 rounds and there is also the Blitz perk. Used strategically you can than burst 2/3 times and often kill everybody before fatigue kicks in. Actually you can do the same thing with a non RR Hornet because 11 AP is good enough to burst twice for 66 AP.
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I assumed the rapid reloader bonus is exactly 20% after a quick test with some weapon models. It's probably slightly less than 20%, perhaps 18%.
Now THAT would be the most plausible explenation. I guess we'll find out through testing. Doing it right now and it's even more weird. Here an example:
A 14 AP Maurauder with 8.6mm barrel shows 12 AP in the crafting screen as well when eqipped. 14 -20% = 11,2 so 20% is indeed too much but even if we take 15% it should be lower than 12 AP: 14 - 15% = 11,9.
The reduction MUST be over 15% however because when I use the RR with a .44 Hammerer (32AP) it gets down to 26. If it was 15% it would result in 27,2 (27). Using a 20% formula it goes to 25,6.
So my conclusion is: It is indeed 20% but the rapid reloader always results in rounding up instead of the opposite like with the rest. If it's not intentional than maybe it's a simple mistake in the rounding algorithms: Ceil (round up) instead of trunc.
If it get's changed to truncating I'm afraid it will actually go against the current balance. A RR Hornet is already very powerful. Being able to burst twice without the reliance on adrenaline shot/Blitz would be overkill.
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Do not leave us in the dark. What happens when you use a bipod + rapid reloader?
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OK. Thanks.
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BTW. For those asking what is the damage done for my crafted smg/sniper rifle, I have just one shot one enemy for 227 damage with a single shot of my smart 7.62 jaguar smg (10 AP to shoot - hollow point bullets). And I have also made 1900 damage from a single shot of my 7.62 smart spearhead sniper rifle (sniping while stealthed).
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Electroshock pistol is banned from the Execute club anyway.
Yeah, I remember there was something like that, but can't find it anywhere in patch notes strangely.
When and where that happends?
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Dev Log #41, this was when the game went to closed beta I believe. Alot of balancing happened there especially regarding pistols.
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In regards to crit pistol build. There are two unique pistols in the game that are actually quite good for that purpose. Both are .44, one (that is in possession of Wyatt in Depot A) is a revolver that has 32 base AP cost and 20% base crit chance, other one is from Upper Underrail and has 35 AP and 150% crit damage bonus and more damage. With both of them, seeker googles and occasional use of Focus Stim (my favorite drug, one of the reasons for which is that he is VERY easy to make and always sold by Heidi in Core City) it is easy to have crit chance for 60%+. With Rapid Fire and Point Shot you can make 4 attacks, most of them will crit.
With Paranoia and Gunslinger (and decent AGI), i was able to have first turn almost always, even when going in the area from which i run from combat earlier (you have penalty to initiative for that, from what i understand).
Also, after getting Ambush feat, i often employed a certain tactics in the dark part of the Underrail (i.e. most of them). Throw a flare directly under someone (it is important, does not work if it lands near target) and if you out of illumination of that flare, all of your attacks will crit, dealing quite a damage to target.
But after playing it for a while, i found too many issues with pistol build that made game quite hard. First, you don't have perception as high (10 max usually) as dedicated sharpshooters like snipers and AR users, which combined with a range of the pistol and penalty for special attacks made it a very lousy shot even with almost constantly enabled night vision googles. Second is a consequence of the first - i found myself very close to the enemies to often for my comfort. I savescummed with him more often than with most other chars. Third is that even if he is able to fire 4 shots per round, you can hit 2 targets at most due to how those special attacks works.
SMGs in theory should have same problems, but they do not, mainly due to how busrt attack works. With 3 target in the area of the burst you are almost guarantied to hit with decent amount of your shots even with ~10% accuracy. Maybe it should be nerfed a bit).
In conclusion, it is a very interesting build but not for the faint of heart or people new to the game since it requires good understanding of the game mechanics to pull it off. Killing Wyatt is a VERY difficult task without being high level or having Quick Tickering and patience + good luck. Using plasma and other special pistols on the other hand is much more easy and fun.
P.S. It seems to me that Point Shot and Gunslinger are working with Plasma Pistols in the current version of the game. Don't know if it is intended or just a bug.
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P.S. It seems to me that Point Shot and Gunslinger are working with Plasma Pistols in the current version of the game. Don't know if it is intended or just a bug.
Dunno about Point Shot but this feat fits plasma pistol like a glove.
I'm glad to see that Gunslinger bug is still there. The game is trying to say "i want Gunslinger to work with energy/chemical pistols as well". I hope StygSoft will get the message.
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Dunno about Point Shot but this feat fits plasma pistol like a glove.
Yup, especially with new AP reduction nerf. The biggest irony is that energy guns get so much more from pistol build than regular pistols. Was kinda sad when i realized it
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I dusted out my pistol build that i used following Wildan guide, and i must say my recommendation for everyone who wants to play it or any other pistol build, is to pick disassemble feat instead of gun nut. Totaly worth it, since you can buy some random weapon and disassemble it for that rapid reloader or whatever.
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Hmm interesting, I don't think I ever found a dropped weapon with rapid reloader on it but I also never pay attention to base AP of those weapons. RR is indeed among the most rare components, along with napalm c. Too bad for the 90% quality of components though. Styg should make it 95%, just because it's the cool magical number in RPGs. :P