Underrail Forum
Underrail => Suggestions => Topic started by: Sykar on January 26, 2019, 04:21:04 pm
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In my opinion there are items and feats which provide such negligible benefits that they could be merged with something and it would be for the better. Personally I think the following should be merged:
Goggles +1 perception: Imho +1 perception is generally useless and almost every build using goggles is either using detection, crit chance or smart module. The +1 perception is not even situational good since you either have high per or you dump it to 3.
My suggestion would be that all goggle types provide +1 perception and get rid of the base +1 goggles. The benefit is so negligible it might as well merged or completely removed if that is deemed too strong which considering the pitiful benefit of +1 perception is doubtful.
Hammerer pistols: Atrocious minimum damage. It is so bad that the damage output becomes so unreliable that many prefer the much more stable Neo Luger for example. Something has to be done with this pistol time.
Snooping: I am not sure what to do with it. Like with goggles you either have high per for ranged characters or you dump it to 3 and use detection goggles to find traps. Secrets are nice but usually just offer some extra loot and oddities, with a rare easter egg here and there.
Ninja Looter/Burglar: These two feats are rarely if ever taken, at best as flavor feats. Either they need massive improvements or just merge them to a single perk and name it "Master Thief" or something like that.
Gun Nut: Rarely seen it. The benefit is 7.5% average damage but it can be as little as 0%. I see no reason as to why this could not be something like a flat damage increase.
Heavy Punch: Most special attacks usually either cut AP cost for comparable damage but reduced accuracy, give increased crit chance, etc. This feat is supposedly there to help overcoming damage resistances I guess but it just is very unappealing even on unarmed characters.
Mental Subversion: Just takes far too long to stack and is hardly noticable if at all. Could be merged with Cerebral Trauma.
Neurologist: Somewhat underwhelming. Could improve PSI efficiency a little as well maybe.
Hypothermia. Not very useful. The idea of reduced con is only really feasable in prolonged fights to reduce the effectiveness of enemy healing but the problem is the higher the difficulty the less you want fights to go long because you can get wiped off the map fast. Doubly true on Autistic difficulty.
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Nothing new here, we've been complaining about this stuff for a long while. :(
One particularly elegant way to deal with the "excessive damage spread" problem would be to have some kind of ability that lets you do guaranteed maximum damage, under certain conditions. That way weapons with a wide damage spread can stay as they are, and their spread can even be an asset.
http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Bless
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Disagree with:
Hammerer - it's player choice, someone like it.
Sooping - very, very useful feat.
Heavy Punch - I killed Dreadnoughts with it!
Neurologist is the only sourse for increasing psi-pool for Psychosis users.
I guess Gun Nut could be useful in strange runs where you don't take combat feats - these are exist.
Hypoteria - never used it, but I guess someone could use it for though fights.
The rest probably is true, but...
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Disagree with:
Hammerer - it's player choice, someone like it.
Sooping - very, very useful feat.
Heavy Punch - I killed Dreadnoughts with it!
Neurologist is the only sourse for increasing psi-pool for Psychosis users.
I guess Gun Nut could be useful in strange runs where you don't take combat feats - these are exist.
Hypoteria - never used it, but I guess someone could use it for though fights.
The rest probably is true, but...
Hammerer: Tell me who uses it? I read and watched a lot from other players and everybody seems to have the same opinion about it, awful damage spread which makes the pistol far too unreliable. It is possible, especially during early game, that a crit can deal less damage than a maximum rolled normal hit which is sad to see when you see your Aimed Shot does something like 20 damage only to hit normally for 35+ on the next hit.
Snooping: If one is generous, then one could call it a luxury feat. The reality is that it hardly does anything if your perception is dumped to 3 since most secrets need 8+ per early on and later, starting in Depot A already, you need at least 10 or 11, meaning to get actual benefit from it your perception has to be around 7-8 and never raised or the benefit is completely superseded by perception anyway.
Heavy Punch: I did mention that the obvious use is supposed to be to overcome damage resistance. This is very rarely helpful and I see no reason to leave it in such a niche feat since against everything else you will hit for less in total.
Neurologist: What Psychosis needs is to get a revamp so it increases PSI costs of abilities which can crit only, thanks for reminding on that one. That being said reducing cost via headband and psi beetle carapace is not too hard and more than sufficient. In the end all it does give you additional 15 PSI at the start of the combat and once in a while you get full benefit from a PSI booster when you are a bit above 25 PSI. It is only really useful if you run with Fast Metabolism, which is a good feat, but otherwise the benefit is exceedingly marginal is and is therefore firmly in the luxury category, at best.
Gun Nut: Again a feat you take if you run out of feats to take which on Autistic is rather unlikely and again there will be plenty of damage rolls where it has done nothing. I do not see why it could not be just a flat damage multiplier instead of just being tacked on maximum damage.
Hypothermia: You have never taken it, yet you think it "might" be useful to someone? Who exactly? Cryogenic Induction is superior in ever way. Not only does it give you an extra round of slow and freeze you can also finish off enemies so it synergies greatly with Psychosis builds and PSI Snipers.
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Disagree with heavy punch... it used in pneumatic reinforced gloves (with expertise) to deal huge mechanical damage...but I dont know TfB better or worse this
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That being said reducing cost via headband and psi beetle carapace is not too hard and more than sufficient.
Imagine you playing no craft run and just cant craft psi beetle vest. That's when oyu need Neurologist.
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That being said reducing cost via headband and psi beetle carapace is not too hard and more than sufficient.
Imagine you playing no craft run and just cant craft psi beetle vest. That's when oyu need Neurologist.
I can imagine a lot of things. Still does not change the fact that Neurologist is at best lackluster.
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not every feat needs to be super viable, dude
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not every feat needs to be super viable, dude
No, but it just needs to be viable in just more than extremely exotic niche situations or not be outright useless.
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the best is the enemy of good
is a Russian proverb.
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To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?
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To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?
Apart from the ones I mentioned?
Versatility: If this would grant throwing, and maybe traps, it might be useful. Otherwise there is still no reason to use a skill you are otherwise not proficient with on higher difficulties since enemies have even higher dodge and evasion, making a halfassed skill value with no feat support still a sub-optimal choice.
Sure Step: Luxury feat, at best.
Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.
Dirty Kick: Flavorful, but loads of enemies are immune, quite a lot are affected for only half effectiveness. A small portion of total enemies suffer the full effect.
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To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?
Apart from the ones I mentioned?
Versatility: If this would grant throwing, and maybe traps, it might be useful. Otherwise there is still no reason to use a skill you are otherwise not proficient with on higher difficulties since enemies have even higher dodge and evasion, making a halfassed skill value with no feat support still a sub-optimal choice.
Sure Step: Luxury feat, at best.
Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.
Dirty Kick: Flavorful, but loads of enemies are immune, quite a lot are affected for only half effectiveness. A small portion of total enemies suffer the full effect.
These skills are not useless but rarely applicable.
Sure Step: use with mutants (puddles of acid are very annoying)
Disassemble: for components
Dirty Kick: I use it myself, because I play without crafting. (Of course the Taser is better in terms of cooldown and robots)
The only feat is Versatility... But I agree that it is better when choosing to take more necessary feats.
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To Sykar: And what feat do you think is generally useless?
Apart from the ones I mentioned?
Versatility: If this would grant throwing, and maybe traps, it might be useful. Otherwise there is still no reason to use a skill you are otherwise not proficient with on higher difficulties since enemies have even higher dodge and evasion, making a halfassed skill value with no feat support still a sub-optimal choice.
Sure Step: Luxury feat, at best.
Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.
Dirty Kick: Flavorful, but loads of enemies are immune, quite a lot are affected for only half effectiveness. A small portion of total enemies suffer the full effect.
These skills are not useless but rarely applicable.
Sure Step: use with mutants (puddles of acid are very annoying)
Disassemble: for components
Dirty Kick: I use it myself, because I play without crafting. (Of course the Taser is better in terms of cooldown and robots)
The only feat is Versatility... But I agree that it is better when choosing to take more necessary feats.
Yeah you can make up any kind of excuse to "justify" terrible feats. That does not make them any less terrible and outright useless 99.9% of the time. As to your arguments.
Sure Step: Or just wait, or get some boots with acid protection or just walk through and heal/bandage up afterwards. Even on Autistic difficulty you will swim in meds.
Disassemble: Or just buy new components which are not compromised by 10%. In fact if I want to build something new I want HIGHER quality components. There are very few components I'd even bother to disassemble an item in the first place like Rapid Reloaders.
Dirty Kick: As you pointed out Taser is better. As are flashbangs. As are caldrops, especially poisoned ones. So are bear traps. None of these need a lot of skill points or feats to be effective.
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Yeah you can make up any kind of excuse to "justify" terrible feats. That does not make them any less terrible and outright useless 99.9% of the time. As to your arguments.
Sure Step: Or just wait, or get some boots with acid protection or just walk through and heal/bandage up afterwards. Even on Autistic difficulty you will swim in meds.
Disassemble: Or just buy new components which are not compromised by 10%. In fact if I want to build something new I want HIGHER quality components. There are very few components I'd even bother to disassemble an item in the first place like Rapid Reloaders.
Dirty Kick: As you pointed out Taser is better. As are flashbangs. As are caldrops, especially poisoned ones. So are bear traps. None of these need a lot of skill points or feats to be effective.
About puddles of acid: I wear other boots and cannot change them for every situation. Sometimes puddles too much to walk through and can`t heal in combat.
Dirty Kick: flashbangs - incapacitate effect. Not stun. Caldrops, bear traps, taser - for crafting ( I don't use it) And what is left over?
Disassemble: It is better to ask those who use it...
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Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.
Again, better than you're giving it credit for. If you don't play on Dominating then you probably have infinity moneys, at all times; but if you do play on Dominating, you likely find your finances a bit more cramped. Disassemble is worth an enormous lot of potential money, and there's also a meta for it that results in you getting free repairs for any gear you're using that you could also craft. Ending up with a way to avoid repair costs while also pulling expensive components off found/looted items so you can fill up the optional slots in crafted items? That's quite useful, and well worth a single feat slot for a crafter build.
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Sheeeit, Sure Step is awesome. Caltrops are awesome (if you can afford to carry them).
I don't think I've ever taken Dirty Kick, but I could at least imagine doing so. Barely misses the cut. Yes, I'd usually prefer a taser, but I could imagine not having the utility slot, or wanting both together.
I doubt I'll ever take Disassemble, although I can believe what TAG says about $ on Dominating. I am curious about the meta repair process TAG is talking about, also.
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Disassemble: Hardly worth a feat. At best worth an expensive blueprint.
Again, better than you're giving it credit for. If you don't play on Dominating then you probably have infinity moneys, at all times; but if you do play on Dominating, you likely find your finances a bit more cramped. Disassemble is worth an enormous lot of potential money, and there's also a meta for it that results in you getting free repairs for any gear you're using that you could also craft. Ending up with a way to avoid repair costs while also pulling expensive components off found/looted items so you can fill up the optional slots in crafted items? That's quite useful, and well worth a single feat slot for a crafter build.
Since this is beta I am still testing out stuff on Autistic, therefore playing it exclusively though it is an obnoxious and tedious difficulty increase. Even on Autistic you can get quite a bit of money, it just takes longer. Furthermore the only part you really want from Disassemble are things which are rare to buy like Rapid Reloaders but that is not worth a feat slot and you will usually get 2-3 at least if you are diligently checking merchants. Otherwise you want higher quality parts, not lower quality parts and you can find copious amounts of parts anyway if you scour every corner of the game.
As to repair costs, seriously? If you are a "crafter", who actually is not, you can buy the repair kit blueprint dirt cheap and the materials are dirt cheap as well.
So no, Disassemble, even on Autistic is not worth a feat slot. Paying good money might be worth thinking about it, wasting feat on something so.... exceedingly situationally useful is not worth such a steep price.
Sheeeit, Sure Step is awesome. Caltrops are awesome (if you can afford to carry them).
I don't think I've ever taken Dirty Kick, but I could at least imagine doing so. Barely misses the cut. Yes, I'd usually prefer a taser, but I could imagine not having the utility slot, or wanting both together.
I doubt I'll ever take Disassemble, although I can believe what TAG says about $ on Dominating. I am curious about the meta repair process TAG is talking about, also.
To this day regardless how bad a feat/perk/trait was in many other games there was always someone defending it. Fact is that during combat you want to use Caldrops to keep enemies at bay, not slowing them down while they surround you. Even if, you can just as easily run and throw it then.
I have several hundreds of hours and a dozen builds/variants tested and not once did I feel the need for Sure Step. It is at best a convinience/luxury feat if there is nothing else you need. Such feats usually come around 20 when you just want some stuff to round out your build or maybe cover something you find somewhat annoying but not vital. Sure Step is a tough sell, again at best, for taking at crucial early levels when combat is at its hardest.
As to cash, he is wrong. The cash problem is only really a problem at start. Well maybe if you want to smelt copious amounts of cash into supersteel but I rarely play metal armor wearing characters since stealth is so much fun in this game.
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As a result, it turned out that everyone plays differently and therefore each Feat is necessary and important)
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Furthermore the only part you really want from Disassemble are things which are rare to buy like Rapid Reloaders but that is not worth a feat slot and you will usually get 2-3 at least if you are diligently checking merchants. Otherwise you want higher quality parts, not lower quality parts and you can find copious amounts of parts anyway if you scour every corner of the game.
As to repair costs, seriously? If you are a "crafter", who actually is not, you can buy the repair kit blueprint dirt cheap and the materials are dirt cheap as well.
What you're describing tells me that you don't optimize heavily, and that's fine. But that doesn't change the fact that there's a ton of potential money from Disassemble. If you did want a top of the line jet ski, if you did want to sink money into super steel, and also fully kit out your house in Core City, Disassemble would be the way to make that happen on Dominating without farming for cash.
Got a mod on a 5mm pistol? Pull it off and put it on a crafted .44 or something. And remember, the base cost multiplier rises with more mods, so you didn't just pull a mod off a cheaper weapon, you increased its potential value by putting it on a fully-modded frame. Plus, when you re-craft the 5mm pistol you took apart, it'll be at full durability, meaning it'll sell for more; or if you plan to recycle it for repair kit scraps, you'll get more of those.
Like I said, better than you give it credit for. There's no need to use it on any build, of course - but it's worth more cash than any feat except maybe Salesman, and if that matters to someone, they'll get good mileage from Disassemble. Especially if their build has room for QoL feats.
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Better yet, quite a few rare/semi-rare mods do not have quality, and are unaffected by Disassemble.
That being said, the fact it reduces quality pushes it solidly into QoL-tier.
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As a result, it turned out that everyone plays differently and therefore each Feat is necessary and important)
No. There are probably a dozen or so feats which are build defining. Feats like Snipe, Aimed Shot, Premeditation, Blitz, etc. Then there are feats which are good complements to those, like Interloper, Paranoia, Suppressive Fire, Opportunist, etc.
But then there are feats which make so little impact that you could miss out on them and you would barely if ever notice it, like the ones I mentioned unless you are a try hard who wants to "prove" that these terrible feats can be justified in some hilariously niche application, even though you could just ignore it and won't miss it at all.
Furthermore the only part you really want from Disassemble are things which are rare to buy like Rapid Reloaders but that is not worth a feat slot and you will usually get 2-3 at least if you are diligently checking merchants. Otherwise you want higher quality parts, not lower quality parts and you can find copious amounts of parts anyway if you scour every corner of the game.
As to repair costs, seriously? If you are a "crafter", who actually is not, you can buy the repair kit blueprint dirt cheap and the materials are dirt cheap as well.
What you're describing tells me that you don't optimize heavily, and that's fine. But that doesn't change the fact that there's a ton of potential money from Disassemble. If you did want a top of the line jet ski, if you did want to sink money into super steel, and also fully kit out your house in Core City, Disassemble would be the way to make that happen on Dominating without farming for cash.
Got a mod on a 5mm pistol? Pull it off and put it on a crafted .44 or something. And remember, the base cost multiplier rises with more mods, so you didn't just pull a mod off a cheaper weapon, you increased its potential value by putting it on a fully-modded frame. Plus, when you re-craft the 5mm pistol you took apart, it'll be at full durability, meaning it'll sell for more; or if you plan to recycle it for repair kit scraps, you'll get more of those.
Like I said, better than you give it credit for. There's no need to use it on any build, of course - but it's worth more cash than any feat except maybe Salesman, and if that matters to someone, they'll get good mileage from Disassemble. Especially if their build has room for QoL feats.
My main build, a PSI/Sniper hybrid, went through 7 iterations so far, almost each better than the previous one so the notion that I do not "optimize" heavily is so laughably stupid and ignorant I do not even know if I should bother to continue to reply. Nothing you said disprove the fact that Disassemble is at best a niche feat. It is not build defining. It is not a great complement to anything. It might help if you are REALLY unlucky and just cannot get your hands on a second Rapid Reloader or
As to selling shit for more, what a pointless endeavor considering the overabundance of loot and still you can make repair kits for almost no cost. The blue prine for them costs like 200 SGS iirc. The components are found all over the place. So there is little to no investment to be able to craft your own. Yet here I have to read such utter nonsense how Disassemble "saves" money by wasting a precious feat slot. The only time I have problems with money is at the beginning and if I really want to stuff every damn luxury crap into my residence, even though technically all you need are the work benches and maybe the shelves. That's it.
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Disassemble not giving 100% quality out of the box is really bad, this shouldn't even be up for discussion.
Trading a combat feat for something that doesn't even work properly? No. End of story.
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As a result, it turned out that everyone plays differently and therefore each Feat is necessary and important)
No. There are probably a dozen or so feats which are build defining. Feats like Snipe, Aimed Shot, Premeditation, Blitz, etc. Then there are feats which are good complements to those, like Interloper, Paranoia, Suppressive Fire, Opportunist, etc.
But then there are feats which make so little impact that you could miss out on them and you would barely if ever notice it, like the ones I mentioned unless you are a try hard who wants to "prove" that these terrible feats can be justified in some hilariously niche application, even though you could just ignore it and won't miss it at all.
Terrible feats?... Funny))) You are too dramatized...
I understand that Are you the person who actively uses these "useless" feats? No? Well then, no one bothers you not to take them.
If you are about the equivalence of all feats - yes, there are feats of the first category, minor feats and feats that slightly facilitate some situations. I think that was the principle on which the game was made. Ask Styg)
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As a result, it turned out that everyone plays differently and therefore each Feat is necessary and important)
No. There are probably a dozen or so feats which are build defining. Feats like Snipe, Aimed Shot, Premeditation, Blitz, etc. Then there are feats which are good complements to those, like Interloper, Paranoia, Suppressive Fire, Opportunist, etc.
But then there are feats which make so little impact that you could miss out on them and you would barely if ever notice it, like the ones I mentioned unless you are a try hard who wants to "prove" that these terrible feats can be justified in some hilariously niche application, even though you could just ignore it and won't miss it at all.
Terrible feats?... Funny))) You are too dramatized...
I understand that Are you the person who actively uses these "useless" feats? No? Well then, no one bothers you not to take them.
If you are about the equivalence of all feats - yes, there are feats of the first category, minor feats and feats that slightly facilitate some situations. I think that was the principle on which the game was made. Ask Styg)
I sincerely doubt that any sane developer would want feats which are so bad that you to go deep into rationalizations and make up some hyper-theoretical scenario just to justify lackluster, at best, feats.
I mean now that I think about it, Snooping could for example could also apply the perception bonus to finding traps. Oh wow, problem solved, now it is an optional feat which helps with one of the two the biggest weaknesses low perception characters have, though it would not be the only solution to the problem of finding traps in time.
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As a result, it turned out that everyone plays differently and therefore each Feat is necessary and important)
No. There are probably a dozen or so feats which are build defining. Feats like Snipe, Aimed Shot, Premeditation, Blitz, etc. Then there are feats which are good complements to those, like Interloper, Paranoia, Suppressive Fire, Opportunist, etc.
But then there are feats which make so little impact that you could miss out on them and you would barely if ever notice it, like the ones I mentioned unless you are a try hard who wants to "prove" that these terrible feats can be justified in some hilariously niche application, even though you could just ignore it and won't miss it at all.
Terrible feats?... Funny))) You are too dramatized...
I understand that Are you the person who actively uses these "useless" feats? No? Well then, no one bothers you not to take them.
If you are about the equivalence of all feats - yes, there are feats of the first category, minor feats and feats that slightly facilitate some situations. I think that was the principle on which the game was made. Ask Styg)
I sincerely doubt that any sane developer would want feats which are so bad that you to go deep into rationalizations and make up some hyper-theoretical scenario just to justify lackluster, at best, feats.
I mean now that I think about it, Snooping could for example could also apply the perception bonus to finding traps. Oh wow, problem solved, now it is an optional feat which helps with one of the two the biggest weaknesses low perception characters have, though it would not be the only solution to the problem of finding traps in time.
You know, if the stars are lit, then someone needs it. So it is here. If there are such feats, then there are people who like it. Everyone has their own tastes and preferences, and each will remain with his opinion.
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As a result, it turned out that everyone plays differently and therefore each Feat is necessary and important)
No. There are probably a dozen or so feats which are build defining. Feats like Snipe, Aimed Shot, Premeditation, Blitz, etc. Then there are feats which are good complements to those, like Interloper, Paranoia, Suppressive Fire, Opportunist, etc.
But then there are feats which make so little impact that you could miss out on them and you would barely if ever notice it, like the ones I mentioned unless you are a try hard who wants to "prove" that these terrible feats can be justified in some hilariously niche application, even though you could just ignore it and won't miss it at all.
Terrible feats?... Funny))) You are too dramatized...
I understand that Are you the person who actively uses these "useless" feats? No? Well then, no one bothers you not to take them.
If you are about the equivalence of all feats - yes, there are feats of the first category, minor feats and feats that slightly facilitate some situations. I think that was the principle on which the game was made. Ask Styg)
I sincerely doubt that any sane developer would want feats which are so bad that you to go deep into rationalizations and make up some hyper-theoretical scenario just to justify lackluster, at best, feats.
I mean now that I think about it, Snooping could for example could also apply the perception bonus to finding traps. Oh wow, problem solved, now it is an optional feat which helps with one of the two the biggest weaknesses low perception characters have, though it would not be the only solution to the problem of finding traps in time.
You know, if the stars are lit, then someone needs it. So it is here. If there are such feats, then there are people who like it. Everyone has their own tastes and preferences, and each will remain with his opinion.
Nothing but hollow, empty drivel that does not address the simple fact that some feats are basically useless outside of extremely niche builds and even there they are at best in the category of "nice to have" and that is putting mildly. The matter of fact is that most builds are deceptively feat starved and just getting in QoL feats like Burglar and Ninja Looter either impacts your combat performance or delays your maximum potential by another two levels, at least.
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So uh, anyone actually use the Clothier feat?
Seems to me like the ability to make an extra pretty pink dress is somewhat wasted in Underrail.
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So uh, anyone actually use the Clothier feat?
Seems to me like the ability to make an extra pretty pink dress is somewhat wasted in Underrail.
I have in the past, for a stealth character. With all three - ninja tabis, balaclava, and the cloth layer on an overcoat - it amounts to like 20 points of stealth over using the same gear without Clothier. Can also use it to get more cloth scraps if you have a repair kit economy going. Can't really say it's a very compelling choice, but it provides enough benefit that you can see the effect, which I guess is really all a QoL feat needs.
Personally, I'd roll Skinner and Clothier together into one feat, but it's been suggested before.
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Oh about burglar, it has a better use now (or rather is not completely useless), because security cameras react to stealing and hacking.
Tested in SGS, hacking the doors in the private quarter is impossible without the Burglar feat, you got to do it in one second or camera will spot you.
Granted the usefulness is not exactly mindblowing, but it is something.
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Asking about the feat rather than suggesting improvements, but is entanglement/immobilization a common enough threat that Escape Artist is worth the perk point on a mobile character? So far the only sources I've seen are Mutant Dog's acid blobs and possibly Bear Traps, it seems like it would prevent a lot of savescumming on a character that relies on mobility but at the same time it seems a waste if you only encounter immobilization once in a blue moon.
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Also, most crossbow bandits use nets as well, that usually lead to you being killed. And it can also be usefull if you use the XAL-001 (Which is a very good gun overall) to mitigate the drawback.
This may change your view about it, or maybe not ...
About Surestep, I think it is an underated feat. First, it give you protection against acidic pool, early in the game and will make the life way easier at Depot A, which is a tough part of the game. And by the time you manage to get your hand on Infused Mutated Dog Leather Boots ... Well, you certainly reached level 14 or 15 and you would have already made a huge profit out of Surestep. Plus, you can continue to use other boots, like tabi boots which are great.
Then, and mostly why I love this trait is that it protect you from caltrops, wich are underated as well. You can easily prepare the ground before a tough fight using lots of these cheap caltrops to gain the possibility to kite enemies while doing significant damage. And even if throwed during combat, with surestep you can throw it at your feet (Which is often a very valid target) for 100% accuracy without investing into throwing skill. And ... Trust me, crawler poison caltrops are SO GOOD. give you the possibility to stun an entire group for 2 turns if you use it well at a choke point.
One may say it's possible to use metal boots ... Very true, but caltrops and kiting really shine with a very mobile character with let's say Tabiboots and low armor penalty. Not a big and heavy tin can guy.
Plus you cannot wear both metal and acid proof boots, so yeah ...
You should not see Surestep as a passive defensive feat, but more as an active defensive feat with cool usage of caltrops and acid guns.
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Currently doing my first pistols run. I am not experienced with this build, so I may be wrong, but...
I think Practical Physicist needs a buff. Generally, niche feats (like Practical Physicist) should be stronger than widely applicable feats (like Critical Power) within their niche. However, it looks like Critical power is better even for devoted energy pistol builds.
The best design imo would have been to have Critical Power be the stronger feat for an all pistols build, and Practical Physicist be the stronger feat for an energy pistol only build.
PS. Chemical pistols look like they need some work to be worthwhile. They are an interesting concept in principle, so hopefully they get looked into.
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I think Practical Physicist needs a buff.
I disagree. Practical Physicist is probably one of if not the best "crafted weapon" feats in the game, since its bonus (critical damage) is precisely what plasma pistols excel at. Especially now that DOMINATING exists, where you need all the damage you can get.
Generally, niche feats (like Practical Physicist) should be stronger than widely applicable feats (like Critical Power) within their niche. However, it looks like Critical power is better even for devoted energy pistol builds.
(https://i.imgur.com/c7NJRa2.gif)
PS. Chemical pistols look like they need some work to be worthwhile. They are an interesting concept in principle, so hopefully they get looked into.
They already got looked into. They used to deal much less damage and didn't have the awesome Cooked Shot feat. I would say they are in a pretty good place now, Cooked Shot gives them really good AoE, acid pistols are great against melee enemies thanks to entanglement, incendiary has great DoT against single targets, etc. You can pull off some good stuff with them that you wouldn't be able to with other weapons, like defeating the bladeling waves on DOMINATING with no gas grenades/crawler caltrops.
There also might be some new stuff (and old stuff, but earlier) for them in the expansion, but you didn't hear that from me.
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Tygrende, I appreciate the feedback (all of it, btw). As I mentioned, I am not experienced with the build, and therefore I am not confident in my opinions. You are much more likely to be correct in your assessments.
RE Chemical Weapons.
Alright, I will see if I can find a feat spot for Cooked Shot. Haven't picked it yet, and it was unclear from the description whether this feat would be worthwhile. Note that I tried searching for info on cooked shot and did not come up with anything detailed, which to me indicates that not many people are into chemical pistols. But maybe they have a marketing problem.
RE Practical Physicist vs Critical Power
Interesting. Of course one can pick both, but my main point is that of niche feat vs widely applicable feat. In principle, I believe that niche feats (eg, Practical Physicist) should be stronger than widely applicable feats (Critical Power), which is not the case for (amplified) plasma pistols either.
Anyway, if in your experience Practical Physicist is already strong enough, then I do not have an improvement to suggest, because I do not believe that Critical Power should be nerfed.
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I believe that niche feats (eg, Practical Physicist)
Why would you consider it to be a niche feat? It applies 100% of the time that you crit when using a crafted energy weapon - and if you're using energy weapons, one would assume you're making your own. That seems the opposite of niche - if you're playing that kind of character, it applies every time you pull the trigger. And since it's reliable, it stacks reliably with any other passive feats you have, like Critical Power; and since it's passive, it also stacks with active feats, like Execute.
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Why would you consider it to be a niche feat?
Practical Physicist applies only to energy pistols, while Critical Power applies to all pistols (and crossbows and melee weapons). That's why I call PPh a niche feat.
For example, I would like it better if a pistol build that used all pistols had to take CritP first, and a devoted energy pistol build had to take PPh first. More Choice&Consequence that way. The way things are now, all builds have to take CritP first, as it is more powerful in nearly all scenarios (even for energy weapons- when they are amplified).
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Actually, critical power is very different from practical physicist.
The first one only affect weapons with already higher than the 100% average crit damage bonus.
The second one adds a flat additive bonus.
If one would compare these kinds of feats, it would be better to compare Sharpshooter with practical physicist.
And things are pretty balance. One add 25% in every conditions while using energy gun, the other one add 30% while focused.
Critical power is only worth if you only have high critical bonus damages, otherwise it's pointless.
For instance, on a very similar situation if you like to use the monsoon crossbow with a 85% crit damage bonus, you would definitely prefer to take first bowyer (the crossbow counterpart of pratical physicist) and after take Critical power to Further empower criticals.
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@Quidam Craft,
I only left Sharpshooter out of the comparison because it requires focus (while pistol builds are generally mobile) and it also has a major requirement of Perception=10 (while pistol builds may choose to invest in Dexterity instead). However, Sharpshooter is still definitely relevant to the discussion.
Don't all energy pistols have a great Crit Dam bonus (often more than 200%) when they are amplified? I doubt that any energy pistol build that respects itself will run without amplified pistols. And in the amplified case, which is the main case and probably the only case relevant to energy builds, the Critical Power bonus is always much greater than the Practical Physicist bonus. Unless I am missing something.
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Yes, you are most certainly right, most energy pistol build will rely on having very high critical damage bonus. I'm trying to think of a build that would do otherwise, but it's not obvious. I'll look forward into it.
So, Yes it's this specific case you'll take critical power first (but you'll definitely take practical physicist as well) . But maybe not all critical strike oriented build will prioritize the same.
Critical power is a great feat anyway, and it will be a must have in every critical strike build. At least at some point in the build.
Edit : maybe a build made around using fast shooting smart laser pistol, with high dexterity will profit more from practical physicist than critical power. A build that wil use a lot of special attacks.
The "problem" with amplified energy gun is that it reduce the ammo capacity as well.
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GAMOCAMHAwhkAAAAAAAAAAAAAABVAAAAAAAAAAAAASYpWVoewppbEUs
Something like this, you'll add some movement and defensive feat.