Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Kartik100 on December 28, 2019, 02:47:39 pm
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Hey guys, I'm new here. This is basically my first topic, so sorry if it's in the wrong board. Couldn't figure out whether this fits in General or Discussions. I'll delete it and repost on the right one if this isn't the place.
So anyway, I really, really love this game. I'm completely hooked onto the world, setting, factions etc. I'm also heavily into RP which is one of the main reasons I play CRPGs like Underrail. This time I'm playing as a down-to-earth psion who values a safe place to call home above all, and generally tries to avoid bloodshed even when it is disadvantageous to her (e.g. Paying the guy's debt in Junkyard out of her own pockets just to avoid having to kill him or that other slum girl).
It's been a fun ride so far but then I went to Rail Crossing and discovered the Train Heist quest, and as I was lost on what to do I ended up looking it up on the wiki which led me down to a rabbit hole reading up on the merits and demerits of the Protectorate and the Free Drones. So from what I understand - it's a twist where the FD seem like psychotic terrorists at first, stealing the supplies of Rail Crossing just to prevent a Protectorate foothold from forming there, but in the end the Protectorate turn out to be the true evil by performing vicious experiments on the FD and turning them into mutants.
This sort of leaves me into a dilemma as a player - I know my character wouldn't just run into the train robbers and go "I didn't see anything", and I also know my character who values security and stability would be drawn to support the Protectorate in the matter. But because of this meta knowledge that I now have, I also know my character would never go through with the final objective of the Protectorate questline. Is it not possible to do the Protectorate quests up to that point and then just go "fuck you, I resign"? Or even a way to join the FD (if they're really better than what you see in the Train Heist quest) without turning a blind eye to the robbery?
I guess what I'm asking in simple terms is - What would a Lawful Good character be doing here - stuck between these two factions that are apparently Chaotic Good (although in character I wouldn't know here that the FD is Good) and Lawful Evil (again, in character I wouldn't know that the Protectorate is Evil).
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You can't join one and then switch.
A lawful good character likely wouldn't join either of them. Protectorate is LN at best, free drones are NG at the most. There are plenty of hints before joining either that the protectorate isn't "good" (in the D&D sense). There's enough exp in the game several times over to hit max level without either questline.
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I think the best choice RP wise in this case is to retrieve train without violnce if possible (persuade option) and then not to be involved in this questline any further. It's basically terrorists vs opressive government, neither side would be appeling much to a such character, since both would require you to get your hands pretty deep in blood.
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Yeah, I guess I'll just be ignoring this questline. I hope they add options for betraying/leaving factions in Underrail 2. Tyranny had this feature and it was great.
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My personal take on this is you need to pick the lesser of two evils.
I don't see how you can consider Free Drones to be "good" as they do not care for the people. As seen in the train heist quest all Free Drones care about is to overthrown the Protectorate, collateral Damage be damn (Rail Crossing desperately needs help but fuck them right?). They attacked and maimed unarmed civilian like Anastasia just because they are "Protectorate". If you join FD you can talk to Darling and see that Protectorate is an oppressive regime - if you are view as against the Protectorate they'll make you disappear, by any means necessary. The ironic fact is that FD employ a similar view and method of operation too. If you ask people about Free Drone in the game they'll tell you FD is also "if you are not with us you are against us" and fuck you up when given the chance.
Of course Protectorate is no angel, but at least the ground troops take care of the people. They provided food for the poor in Junkyard. They at least provide a measure of security against external threat such as Lurker, bandits, etc for their population (prime example - Rail Crossing ending slide). If you join Protectorate you can talk to Holloway and tell he (and soldiers under him) actually care and wanted to protect the people. However it should be noted soldiers like Holloway are not in charge and does not reflect the view of the higher up. Holloway was forced to turn rogue because the higher up view people of South Underrail as second class citizen at best and dogs at worst. All General Melek seems to care about is hold on to power and condone evil method employed by the Chemical Assault Unit. Lower ranks and ground troops - LG, higher ups - LE.
If your character truly care and want to help the general population of South Underrail I think the most RP fitting role would be joining Protectorate, listen to Holloway's story, persuade Colonel Cathcart to investigate Holloway's claims. Don't do the quest for Chemical Assault Unit. Head-cannon try to rise in rank and affect changes from within Protectorate and maybe try to aim for a certain degree of autonomy for South Underrail force from North Underrail, focusing your effort more on helping people (aids to poor + killing lurkers, bandits, etc) and less about helping the North expanding and holding onto power.
Of course if you think your char should just not get involved at all that's another option too.
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My personal take on this is you need to pick the lesser of two evils.
I don't see how you can consider Free Drones to be "good" as they do not care for the people. As seen in the train heist quest all Free Drones care about is to overthrown the Protectorate, collateral Damage be damn (Rail Crossing desperately needs help but fuck them right?). They attacked and maimed unarmed civilian like Anastasia just because they are "Protectorate". If you join FD you can talk to Darling and see that Protectorate is an oppressive regime - if you are view as against the Protectorate they'll make you disappear, by any means necessary. The ironic fact is that FD employ a similar view and method of operation too. If you ask people about Free Drone in the game they'll tell you FD is also "if you are not with us you are against us" and fuck you up when given the chance.
Of course Protectorate is no angel, but at least the ground troops take care of the people. They provided food for the poor in Junkyard. They at least provide a measure of security against external threat such as Lurker, bandits, etc for their population (prime example - Rail Crossing ending slide). If you join Protectorate you can talk to Holloway and tell he (and soldiers under him) actually care and wanted to protect the people. However it should be noted soldiers like Holloway are not in charge and does not reflect the view of the higher up. Holloway was forced to turn rogue because the higher up view people of South Underrail as second class citizen at best and dogs at worst. All General Melek seems to care about is hold on to power and condone evil method employed by the Chemical Assault Unit. Lower ranks and ground troops - LG, higher ups - LE.
If your character truly care and want to help the general population of South Underrail I think the most RP fitting role would be joining Protectorate, listen to Holloway's story, persuade Colonel Cathcart to investigate Holloway's claims. Don't do the quest for Chemical Assault Unit. Head-cannon try to rise in rank and affect changes from within Protectorate and maybe try to aim for a certain degree of autonomy for South Underrail force from North Underrail, focusing your effort more on helping people (aids to poor + killing lurkers, bandits, etc) and less about helping the North expanding and holding onto power.
Of course if you think your char should just not get involved at all that's another option too.
I do like the "change the system from within" approach. That's what I did on my Tyranny Disfavored playthrough. And yeah, I'm not at all impressed by the Free Drones - it's yet another video game anarchist group that's all "down with the authority" and is totally sure that they wouldn't be making compromises or making tough decisions if they were in charge. Ultimately I do think the region needs one strong governing body for lasting stability. "Allied" independent stations can easily turn on each unpredictably - look at Omega.
So basically the Protectorate does make sense to me, it's just that whole chemical warfare bit that makes me squeamish.You said "don't do the quest for the Chemical Assault Unit". Is it possible to turn it down? I was under the impression that you're railroaded into following orders from the moment you join. Or do you mean accept the quest but just ignore it? Do the ending slides account for that?
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Doesn't matter if you quit at the chemical assault-part, just because one person abandons them, that probalby would not stop their plan in the long run. You won't prevent anything, just delay it at best. They will thank you for your cooperation and your work. You were useful.
The way you can aim to actually stop them, is by joining FD. That way you're not just looking the other way when they mutanize the public, but can fight against the idea with all your might. And that would probably better for your conciousness.
Oppressive government is bad and once it stabilized, it's very hard to overthrow it. If robbing the train prevents this or at least slows the process, it's something seemingly evil acted upon basically innocent passangers - in order to avoid an even greater catastrophy that could potentially ruin a lot more lives.
With that said, groups like the FD draws in a lot of anarchistic characters that see this as an oppurtunity to freely act violent and be supported in it. Folks that are only in it to raise hell and would do it in a civilized culture as well. At least here, their energy is channeled towards an even greater enemy of society that is an organized, well oiled, methodic and works very much counciously on the erradication of humanity.
FD higher-ups should be aware that their group is nowhere near as the rebels in Star Wars for example, but more like rejects of society and criminal scum that would never fit into the future what the Protectorate plans for the world (wheter the world likes it or not) and now have refuge and supplies among the FD and a place they feel like they belong. As long as they're happy that is as it would be foolish to completely rely or trust these bunch. Or expect any loyalty from most of them when the tides are turning.
I never met FD yet as I'm still at an early part of the game, but the way I see it, reading these posts, FD is made up of Neutral Evil and Chaotic Neutral characters as their footsoldiers. Chaotic Goods would gladly take justice in their hands and show voilence against evil, but would probalby not be okay with methods that involve harming innocents. While their leaders are probalby True Neutrals that value their independency more than anything and would rather die and sacrifice others then fall under the rule of an oppressing government.
As for the Protectorate, they are Lawful Evils. Would happily turn people into mutants if that leads them to more power and as long as they can do it while crafting laws to support them, especially being portrayed as the protectors of civilisation, they won't have any second thought. They see FD as a bunch of criminals that worth more as mutants than the human garbage they are and are perfectly consistent about generally thinking that some people just doesn't worth the air they breathe and they're doing just work by eliminating them. Making the world a better, safer, cleaner place. And might as well take their land to further their own prosperity.
So based on this thread so far, I'm going to side with the FD. I have a feeling that I might meet more a$$h*les within the Protectorate and I sure as hell don't want to work under them. Should I meet some decent bloke among the Protectorate, that might probably be a naive fool that did not open his/her eyes yet and probably just being used by them the way they would exploit my character too should I join their side. While I really look forward to see a likeable fellow over at FD.
Some might have valid reasons to fight against the Protectorate (possibly past tragedies causd by them), while I can't imagine that the expansion and mutanization of the Protectorate can be justified. Also, approaching this conflict from FD's side seems more interesting.
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Actually now that I've played further and gotten a better understanding of the lore - the Protectorate is just the military branch of the United Stations, isn't it?
Abrams describes the FD's ultimate goal as "creating a community of of stations peacefully trading with each other". That sounds pretty close to what the United Stations are to me.
The problem is that the United Stations' council has a special spot for the Protectorate High Commander, and no decisions can be taken without the High Commander's approval, big or small. That is the main issue here - their military wing has too much unchecked power. So I'd say I support the idea of a Protectorate-like organization (law enforcement is pretty much a requirement for any civilization to stand the test of time) but not without heavy reforms to the current system. Which is of course not possible in-game, so supporting the Protectorate is indeed risky for Underrail. But then again, I don't think the zealous FD are the saviours we need in this situation either. I guess I'll be staying out of this conflict after all. I've already angered the FD anyway, by persuading their train robbers to let Rail Crossing have their supplies.
Still I think the distinction between the United Stations and the Protectorate is important, and I'd love to see this conflict expanded upon in future content. A more fleshed out main story about the Protectorate's internal conflicts could be an interesting concept to explore in Underrail 2.
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The US is a diplomatic branch of the Protectorate.
Basically a puppet of the Prot. to get Stations etc. into their sphere of influence without wasting ressources for a war. Or just not to spill innocent blood.
While I don't know if they made it to save ressources instead of wasting them in war or not to spill any blood.
The ressource option would show us that the Prot. doesn't really care abput the people but about effiency. If it's because of the blood one, then they care about the people.
Overall the US functions as a propaganda tool, to make it look like that it's great under Prot. overlordship.
But in the end as a station leader, you only have 2 choices...political integration into the United Stations of Underrail (USU) or war, you'll most likely loose it, and maybe your population will suffer a worse faith than the poles under Nazi occupation.
If you choose the integration into the USU, it's good for their propaganda, your people spread it, how it gave it a stable trade network, protection and universal currency to your people. Making it more attractive for other stations to join.
If you choose war, it's also good for their propaganda, they show their millitary might, frightening other stations and their leaders and people, and the faith of your people then would have fueled that fear, because other people don't want the same fate like you and your people suffered. So they are more likely to choose the integration aswell.
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The conflict between Free Drones and Protectorate is a civil war, so there is no rights and wrongs.
That said, I liked Free Drones better than Protectorate.
The F.D. people we meet are not afraid to show their personality, while many of the P. people look stiff and are accustomed to hide their human side because they live under a rather oppressive regime :-X.
Many Northerners are chauvinistic towards people of the South ("ratters").
P. elite uses very questionable methods to deal with its opposition: gassing people with airborne mutagens, interrogation with the use of liquid acid, usage of propaganda to pit factions against one another (did you people notice how many P. propaganda listings are there in Omega station?).
P.S. I'm not a native language speaker, so I'd be grateful if someone would correct my grammar mistakes.
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The US is a diplomatic branch of the Protectorate.
Basically a puppet of the Prot. to get Stations etc. into their sphere of influence without wasting ressources for a war. Or just not to spill innocent blood.
While I don't know if they made it to save ressources instead of wasting them in war or not to spill any blood.
The ressource option would show us that the Prot. doesn't really care abput the people but about effiency. If it's because of the blood one, then they care about the people.
Overall the US functions as a propaganda tool, to make it look like that it's great under Prot. overlordship.
But in the end as a station leader, you only have 2 choices...political integration into the United Stations of Underrail (USU) or war, you'll most likely loose it, and maybe your population will suffer a worse faith than the poles under Nazi occupation.
If you choose the integration into the USU, it's good for their propaganda, your people spread it, how it gave it a stable trade network, protection and universal currency to your people. Making it more attractive for other stations to join.
If you choose war, it's also good for their propaganda, they show their millitary might, frightening other stations and their leaders and people, and the faith of your people then would have fueled that fear, because other people don't want the same fate like you and your people suffered. So they are more likely to choose the integration aswell.
Vera Hale from SGS was previously a diplomat in the United Stations iirc, and she said she doesn't like the Protectorate but she does think integration into the United Stations is best for a station. Now we could argue that she's some Protectorate pawn sent to SGS to manipulate the station by feeding them Protectorate propaganda but personally I think Tanner, Gorsky, and Ezra are smarter than that. They wouldn't let someone like that get such an influential position in SGS.
So I don't think the United Stations being a good thing is mere propaganda. It probably does benefit stations, especially those in remote locations with lack of proper supplies. I do, however, agree that it is a "deal with the devil" situation. For some stations catching the attention of the Protectorate could be the last hope for survival, and for some it could be a brutal take-over and a harsh change in lifestyle. For stations like Foundry they're better off alone - they have strong defenses and the Foundry guard can keep the Ironheads at bay. But for stations like Rail Crossing who are unable to manage by their own, integration is the only way of survival.
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Protectorate is just a government. As any government, they have both authoritarian and more democratic tendencies. However, what you really need to understand here, is that the *really bad* tendencies in protectorate (i.e. chemical assault unit) exist and flourish specifically because free drones exist and do what they do. Essentially, free drones are the reason for chemical assault units continued existence.
Protectorate can be changed/improved, but the change needs to come from within and through more democratic means. What free drones are doing literally just promotes the worst in protectorate and perpetuates the cycle.
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Protectorate is just a government. As any government, they have both authoritarian and more democratic tendencies. However, what you really need to understand here, is that the *really bad* tendencies in protectorate (i.e. chemical assault unit) exist and flourish specifically because free drones exist and do what they do. Essentially, free drones are the reason for chemical assault units continued existence.
Consider how incompetent the CAU is I doubt it. I find it more likely they try to be the next biocorp, but they lack the brainpower to achieve this.
On a side note, I've done each questline only once, but I seem to remember they was a tiny "Allo! Allo!" reference in the mysterious lady dialogue ("Listen carefully, I will say this only once."). Which was a British comedy series about the inept French resistance fighting the equally inept nazi occupants.
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usage of propaganda to pit factions against one another (did you people notice how many P. propaganda listings are there in Omega station?).
How the hell did this never occur to me?
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I don't get the love for FD. Just because they might be likable doesn't mean they are right/helpful to the general population. Just because Protectorate might be unlikable doesn't mean they aren't benefiting society as a whole.
I think a lot of people here are judging the two factions with their current relatively peaceful real life values and lost sight of perspective. You know those commoners with no weapon and random scraps in their inventory hanging around Core City? These are your average citizens living within Underrail. They are pretty much defenseless against shit loads of very real threats - bandits, Lurkers, Ironheads, Lunatics, wild roaming animals + bugs and possibilities of famine (talk to IRIS backup and you'll see). With the addition of DLC we can see the world is facing the long term threat of being infected by monolith of alien origin. What would FD for the mass? Way more harm than good. In fact, we've seen they are willing to sacrifice a station's survival to stick it to the man. What would Protectorate do for your average citizen? Oppressive rule with Iron fist but alive, relatively safe and fed.
I'm interested to see evidence of CAU being incompetent. I always get the impressive from talking to npc within Fort Apogee that CAU is effective but outright evil.
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Oppressive rule with Iron fist but alive, relatively safe and fed.
If they don't kill you. They kill a lot of innocent people. And some people would rather be dead than slaves. The protectorate exists just a train ride north; if people fear for their lives in the south they can move up and join it. Or go to the embassy or apogee; maybe they'd guarantee safety on the way north to join.
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I'm pretty sure you don't just "move up and join the north" when you are a commoner. Just like in real life, a commoner living in one of the ex-Soviet bloc country don't just move up and join USA/Canada/Western European country/wherever.
Protectorate would kill anyone they consider a threat, true. But I'm sure the dead count isn't low due to FD's reckless methods and collateral damage. I can see at least some positive outcome if the player decided to change Protectorate from within. However, if the player (which is really a one-man army tipping the scale of balance heavily) help FD win by topping Protectorate I can foresee massive amount of bloodshed - from the conflict/revolution between Protectorate/FD; endless opportunistic raids by bandits; famine and social disorders due to collapse of Protectorate; internal struggle for power between any remaining ex-Protectorate force; struggle for dominance for any power consider themselves the successor for Protectorate, etc, etc. Basically a repeat of BioCorp's collapse - only this time it's not a slow decline but a sudden, violent one which is much worst.
Of course charming comrades, fighting for a cause and sticking it to the man beat all that, right?
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People move from town to town in the south all the time. I don't think there's any berlin wall kind of situation.
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Oppressive rule with Iron fist but alive, relatively safe and fed.
I'm interested to see evidence of CAU being incompetent. I always get the impressive from talking to npc within Fort Apogee that CAU is effective but outright evil.
Living under an iron fist regime is not safe. You just don't hear about the evil that happens unless it happens to you or someone close to you, because the information flow is tighly controlled and censored, so most of it you learn by word of mouth. (I'm from the Eastern bloc myself and old enough to have experienced both communism and democracy.)
And the protectorate quest shows that they don't give a damn about the safety of UR citizens either. They know exactly how volatile and dangerous the mutagen is, yet they choose this weapon to attempt to destroy the drones, despite the risk it poses to civilians in Underrail. Why would you put civilians at risk (the drones hideout is right next to Rail Crossing, from what I remember), when a few dreadnoughts would do the same job? And the CAU don't even manage to finish the job properly, because you will meet FD mutants afterwards, which means some survived. (Now wouldn't it be ironic if someone in the FD would end up with the same mutation as Wyatt in the junkyard?)
So yes, that's being incompetent in my book.
edit: corrections, because English isn't my first language and
is not always easy to communicate what I mean, sorry
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Protectorate is just a government. As any government, they have both authoritarian and more democratic tendencies. However, what you really need to understand here, is that the *really bad* tendencies in protectorate (i.e. chemical assault unit) exist and flourish specifically because free drones exist and do what they do. Essentially, free drones are the reason for chemical assault units continued existence.
Consider how incompetent the CAU is I doubt it. I find it more likely they try to be the next biocorp, but they lack the brainpower to achieve this.
Protectorate isn't trying to be biocorp. Like, at all. They formed and exist literally as an internal rebellion against second biocorp.
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Oppressive rule with Iron fist but alive, relatively safe and fed.
I'm interested to see evidence of CAU being incompetent. I always get the impressive from talking to npc within Fort Apogee that CAU is effective but outright evil.
Living under an iron fist regime is not safe. You just don't hear about the evil that happens unless it happens to you or someone close to you, because the information flow is tighly controlled and censored, so most of it you learn by word of mouth. (I'm from the Eastern bloc myself and old enough to have experienced both communism and democracy.)
And the protectorate quest shows that they don't give a damn about the safety of UR citizens either. They know exactly how volatile and dangerous the mutagen is, yet they choose this weapon to attempt to destroy the drones, despite the risk it poses to civilians in Underrail. Why would you put civilians at risk (the drones hideout is right next to Rail Crossing, from what I remember), when a few dreadnoughts would do the same job? And the CAU don't even manage to finish the job properly, because you will meet FD mutants afterwards, which means some survived. (Now wouldn't it be ironic if someone in the FD would end up with the same mutation as Wyatt in the junkyard?)
So yes, that's being incompetent in my book.
CAU achieved exactly what they wanted too: completely wiped out FD cell in a way that "sends a message". Collateral damage to non-protectorate assets and personal was never an issue.
Thus, no, they are not incompetent. They did exactly what they were sent to do.
And, again, CAU draws it's legitimacy from the actions of FD themselves. The two literally enable each other via their methods.
As for Protectorate being "iron fist regime that's not really safe ", that's just an unverified assumption without some actual statistical data comparing protectorate-run territories to their neighbors.
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CAU achieved exactly what they wanted too: completely wiped out FD cell in a way that "sends a message". Collateral damage to non-protectorate assets and personal was never an issue.
Thus, no, they are not incompetent. They did exactly what they were sent to do.
And, again, CAU draws it's legitimacy from the actions of FD themselves. The two literally enable each other via their methods.
As for Protectorate being "iron fist regime that's not really safe ", that's just an unverified assumption without some actual statistical data comparing protectorate-run territories to their neighbors.
Except that they didn't wipe the drones out completely. Mutants aren't some mindless creatures, as shown in the expedition; they are capable of organizing themselves and - obviously - fighting. Who knows what exactly survived that attack - after all, the main feature of the mutagen is that it's so unpredicatable. So yes, the CAU is incompetent.
And what message does this action send to the civilians of Underrail, pray do tell? We've managed to destroy the drone hideout. Btw, the Underrail passages are now inhabited not only by random gangs of various lowlife, but also by dangerous mutants. You're welcome.
As for lacking any real knowledge about the protectorate, this goes for the CAU too. You can try to explain their existance through the drones, but the protectorate could be lying through their teeth about the extent of CAU's activitites and targets, and you wouldn't know any better. It might be that the drones are not even their main target. What are the experiments on the mutant bodies in the junkyard for, for example?
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Protectorate isn't trying to be biocorp. Like, at all. They formed and exist literally as an internal rebellion against second biocorp.
Protectorate doesn't shy from the traditions of the good ol' Biocorp, though.
Like gassing people with dangerous mutagens.
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Except that they didn't wipe the drones out completely. Mutants aren't some mindless creatures, as shown in the expedition; they are capable of organizing themselves and - obviously - fighting. Who knows what exactly survived that attack - after all, the main feature of the mutagen is that it's so unpredicatable. So yes, the CAU is incompetent.
By exactly the same logic, ANY way of dealing with FD has potential to backfire. But as a matter-of-fact, it hasn't. So CAU HAS achieved their immediate goal.
And what message does this action send to the civilians of Underrail, pray do tell? We've managed to destroy the drone hideout. Btw, the Underrail passages are now inhabited not only by random gangs of various lowlife, but also by dangerous mutants. You're welcome.
As if CAU views infestation of non-allied territories with dangerous mutants as a BAD thing. Hint: they don't.
As for lacking any real knowledge about the protectorate, this goes for the CAU too. You can try to explain their existance through the drones, but the protectorate could be lying through their teeth about the extent of CAU's activitites and targets, and you wouldn't know any better. It might be that the drones are not even their main target. What are the experiments on the mutant bodies in the junkyard for, for example?
No matter how bad Protectorate is at it's core, actions of FD legitimize the existence e of CAU.
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Except that they didn't wipe the drones out completely. Mutants aren't some mindless creatures, as shown in the expedition; they are capable of organizing themselves and - obviously - fighting. Who knows what exactly survived that attack - after all, the main feature of the mutagen is that it's so unpredicatable. So yes, the CAU is incompetent.
By exactly the same logic, ANY way of dealing with FD has potential to backfire. But as a matter-of-fact, it hasn't. So CAU HAS achieved their immediate goal.
No, it doesn't, because conventional weaponry doesn't carry the same risk as mutagen usage. It's literally an unpredictable weapon; you don't know what comes out crawling when you use it. If you talk to the protectorate doctor in the oh-so-secret junkyard hideout, their research into the mutagen seems very basic and nowhere near the biocorp level. It's possible they don't even know that someone like Wyatt can be the result.
You might consider this achieving a goal, I consider this being incompetent.
I also disagree this is all about the drones. No government stockpiles dangerous biological weaponry because of some terrorist groups. They all stockpile it to use against each other.
usage of propaganda to pit factions against one another (did you people notice how many P. propaganda listings are there in Omega station?).
How the hell did this never occur to me?
There is another small tidbit concering the oddities. The ones that you find in the first quest (border guard orders) talk of a bounty placed specifically on Gorsky by the omega leadership. And during the eels vs. scrappers showdown Gorsky tells you that he has been to the north and that the protectorate would kill him (and likely Ezra) if they could. ;)
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No matter how bad Protectorate is at it's core, actions of FD legitimize the existence e of CAU.
Siding with the Protectorate on this purely for roleplaying as a sadist nazi-evil scientist or whatever is fine I guess, but please don't masquarade this as the choice of the good guys.
That can never be proper reasoning, for if FD were not legit before, CAU hereby legitimize them. That step is the one they have to avoid at all cost. They should do it by the book, with tools of order and the ideology they want to represent. And that was totally an option. Instead they employ methods of ruthless bio-terrorism that's not just way over the point, but completely unnecessary. Having the option to choose weaponry that only affect FD, they intentionally go for the mutagen and corrupt the whole land and civil population. It's not even collateral damage, it was their well thought out choice out of all available options. They are like children desperate to look for oppurtunities to try out their new toys (that should not even exist), just because they can. Pitiful. Weapons like this should never be in the hands of completely unresponsible people that use them for the sake of being able to use them.
And the ordacity to explain this as just actions, blame it on FD while it was them who decided to do things the worst way is atrocious. Explain that to the innocent who fell victim, they surely did not get killed by FD, but the Protectorate, always posing as the saviors of civilisation. Still, what baffles me the most is that there are people who can be fooled by this. IRL. Having proper education, living in relative prosperity and in the 21st century.
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No, it doesn't, because conventional weaponry doesn't carry the same risk as mutagen usage.
Conventional weaponry also wouldn't have allowed to wipe FD hideout without any direct combat.
As an added benefit, anyone who comes later to investigate what happen at the hideout is ALSO likely to get killed/mutated.
So using mutagen against FD had both potential positive and negative sides to it.
Anyway, at the end of the day, you have to show how the use of mutagen has actually backfired against CAU/Protectorate directly. Now how it "could have" backfired.
And not how it "backfires in the long run". Because that's just "more work for CAU" -- something CAU is only too happy about.
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No matter how bad Protectorate is at it's core, actions of FD legitimize the existence e of CAU.
Siding with the Protectorate on this purely for roleplaying as a sadist nazi-evil scientist or whatever is fine I guess, but please don't masquarade this as the choice of the good guys.
That can never be proper reasoning, for if FD were not legit before, CAU hereby legitimize them. That step is the one they have to avoid at all cost.
That's exactly what I'm saying: CAU and FD legitimize each other via their methods. It's a vicious circle, if you will.
Both sides are equally bad for using such methods. If you want to be technical, FD were the first to strike (against civilian) when they destroyed Epione lab.
Also, you seem to imply that Protectorate is a unified entity with no special interest groups within. That's not the case: CAU (and special services in general) actually WANT to operate in a way allows them to report "a job well done" on the surface of it, but actually proliferates the existence of organization like FD in the long-term. Because the more of these there are, the more funding/power CAU (and special services in general) get.
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They not legitimizes each other at all. How can CAU legitimize them killing civilians with FD? "Sorry, I know you're innocent, but let me execute you because the existence of some other group you have nothing to do with" - that's rich. Also, while Protectorate is posing as protectors of civilisation, FD are at least has an honest approach. The attack on the lab fits into their agenda, while the CAU is against everything what the Protectorate tries to resemble towards the public.
And I have to come back to the reasoning of my previous post, Protectorate had all the means of defeating FD with legitim ways without civilian causalties and nobody would've question their PR machine. Yet they choose to try out mutagen on the public. The fact that both would result in victory yet they went for the option that involves unnecessary massacre, clearly says how much they care about the people.
FD and Protectorate could only legitimize each other if the latter was only rivals, but essentially the same kind of group as FD. Protectorate however decieves the public, pose as a helping hand then betrays them and kill them. In a way, FD was more useful for them then a setback as antagonizing FD certainly helps pushing their false propaganda through. They could blame them as the root of all evil, even the ones themselves are causing. Zero responsibility.
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They not legitimizes each other at all. How can CAU legitimize them killing civilians with FD? "Sorry, I know you're innocent, but let me execute you because the existence of some other group you have nothing to do with" - that's rich.
Let me stop you right there: what "civilians" exactly were killed by CAU?
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I think the topic is pretty rich and interesting, so if I may...
There is a THEORY (which I don't necessarily hold for true) which is that Anastasia's condition is actually the result of the CAU methods. More precisely, we do not see any Drones employ chemical weaponery during their questline and it seems to be fairly rare (to the point that the acid puddles near Terry Baker's corpse is a strong enough clue for your character to suspect Cornell and his gang and accuse him during your conversation with him eventhough other conversations may point to his responsability as well : at first we do NOT know about the Baker's involvement concerning the Cube) and Anastasia refuse to express her opinion on the CAU.
They may be two main reasons for this :
- The first one, maybe not the most likely but still worth mentionning, is that it is actually the CAU's strikeback during the Free Drones' train assault that has caused her injuries ;
- The second one may be that she disapproves CAU methods because of her own condition eventhough CAU holds no responsabiliy in it.
The second point is the most likely, but it reminds us that most Union citizens and most Protectorate soldiers we have the opportunity to speak with strongly disapprove such methods except some xenophobic military members such as Fraser. It is something to seize power but it is another matter to keep it, and for the latter people's approval seems vital. CAU sure don't give Protectorate a good publicity and indeed the Free Drones demise or rather the methods employed are not made public as we can see receiving our paiement from Fraser. So it may backlash on them at some point.
Most of the plot, but maybe I did misinterpret the author's intention, points out that either Protectorate's brutal methods and Free Drones' fanatism derive were bound to happen. Eiden tells us that Free Drones respond to an essential human need and would reappear on another form if they were eradicated while Tanner explains that an organisation such as the Protectorate had to exist at some points. The more we explore the game, the more we're told that we have to see through the veil of our own physical limitations so the truth mostly concerning the Godmen and another "plane" of existence should be our main concern.
But still, I would side with the Protectorate, were it inherently evil, and were meant to be reformed or dislocated latter, would it nevertheless permits the construction of some sort of civilized and secure nation has we can assume from the multiple sources of information about the North. So maybe CAU has to be seen as the lesser evil regarding Underrail geopolitical context.
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The best answer to this question is in the dialogues of Marcus and Ladelman. Just get to the Expedition and listen. You will learn a lot about the differences in living standards, child mortality and many other factors between the North (which is under the control of the Protectorate) and the South. The best illustration of what southern freedom worth.
Not to mention the situation with the raiders. Balor is besieging the second largest and richest city in South Underrail, and for a long time. The Railway Crossroads is threatened with death under bandit hordes. Nevertheless, trains run between these settlements, and it is very easy to transfer reinforcements to them. The only problem is that there is no organization that could send them. Each city of South Underrail stands (or dies) alone.
It's not like the Protectorate is good. Rather, he is a lesser evil.
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CAU is something that is fundamentally evil, in it's essence there can never be a good use of it. Even if there's a land that is currently being inhabited by "bad people" in their terms, there's nothing wrong with the land on it's own. That can be put to good use later. But Protectorate being so selfish, if they encounter a territory that they can't seize, they are even willing to intentionally make another Depot A out of it. If they can't have it, nobody can, not even it's original residents. Think of the message that carries. No sane government should offer somthing like that, for it is not a deal but a threat. And certainly not offer it on foreign territory.
Stepping into areas that already have their own problems and be the laughing third, offering security to one side in exchange for complete power over them. That is not help - that's exploitation. This should always be rejected and fought against. Freedom before everything, if there's a way to solve an unstable situation, solution should always be something that leaves freedom, otherwise it doesn't worth it and can lead to being oppressed under something much worse than some petty bandits, something that has more control and fighting against it will be a lot more difficult - for there won't be fighters anymore, only slaves. And then it might be too late.
The lands own fighters are what the Protectorate goes up against. Either disarming them by diplomatic means (Rail Crossing, Junkyard) or force (Free Drones). You want to help, that's great. Get to know the area, meet the people. See the leaders - some are bandits trying to taking advantage of the chaos and abuse power, some are sensible people wishing for a peaceful and sustainable prosperity. Pick some and just support THOSE if you so want to interfere. But not by means of military force. Don't make a third side and try to outgun and outsource the others and take control profiting from the chaos and helplessness.
"But they are the lesser evil" - that's EXACTLY what they want you to make your choice based on. They want you to acknowledge their evil and recieve it while agreeing with it, convincing yourself that it is the right way. From that point, you give up the control over you and they are free to exploit you however they want. And if you end up not liking it, you'll be untrustworthy and unresponsible, biting the hand that feeds, being treated way too good for your own sake and deserve punishment. That's the scenario they're speculating, not supporting or making you get stronger yourself, but demonizing the other options, installing fear while making you believe that they are your only choice so you willingly accept their terms, position yourself under them and bend over. Are they evil? Then they're just another threat. Sure they're the lesser? I'm not even convinced about that.
Free Drones doesn't offer a future, but they never said they are and that's not even their purpose in their current state. They just realized the danger earlier than others and now fully focus their attention on solving only that - alone and against all odds. Understood that proper restructuring can only come afterwards when it's not done while having to constantly holding against the invaders. And it's not like they can just rise from underground and join hands with SGS (who were stupid and snobbish enough to leave Junkyard to the tin cans being afraid to be on the same page of even a local gang despite those being the only organization there) or some other local commune that are somewhat sensibly governed. Nobody would accept FD for by doing so would invoke the wrath of the Protectorate. And they are being present everywhere. Deploying soldiers are the first thing they want in exchange for any assistance as it is displayed in several examples through the game. But some doesn't want their troops in, is that a problem? Don't even want to help now? If you're so nice as you say, just give them supplies what's the problem? You don't want them being strong on their own, in their own country? Nooooo, that's the least thing they ever want.
Free Drones are a group that are willing to defend their right of freedom by their guns if needed and for that, they are considered terrorists, in their own country, labeled by the invaders from another. Treated as anarchists, but who said that FD wants chaos, or even to get rid of the oppressors in the favor of the bandits? Are they work on their behalf? Hell no. They want the same thing as the people, just not under Protectorate rule, not by their vile methods and certainly not for the price they ask.
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CAU is something that is fundamentally evil, in it's essence there can never be a good use of it. Even if there's a land that is currently being inhabited by "bad people" in their terms, there's nothing wrong with the land on it's own. That can be put to good use later.
Did anyone even talk about the task of "taking the land"? Underrail is full of unclaimed land. The task was to destroy Free Drones by any means with minimal losses. And it was done.
But Protectorate being so selfish, if they encounter a territory that they can't seize, they are even willing to intentionally make another Depot A out of it. If they can't have it, nobody can, not even it's original residents. Think of the message that carries. No sane government should offer somthing like that, for it is not a deal but a threat.
Should I remind you of the nuclear present for Hiroshima and Nagasaki in real history? Does it make America "evil"?
From my point of view, somehow not. It is normal for a country, any country, to do anything to protect the interests of itself and its citizens.
Of course, such actions cannot be considered acceptable in our time. But then they simply corresponded to the cruelty of the era. And the current era of Underrail is no less cruel. Sad but true.
And certainly not offer it on foreign territory.
There is no "foreign territory" outside the boundaries of cities in South Underrail. It does not belong to anyone, and this is the whole problem. No one cares about raiders until they are so impudent that they raid settlements. No one controls the number of mutants.
If the cities of southern Underrail had come to an agreement and established some kind of ranger structure, at least half of the need for the Protectorate would have disappeared. Or maybe there would be no need for it at all.
The message that this intimidation action contained could not be intended for any specific South Underdale force. It is more likely for the people as a whole. "Do not dare to act against us or face the same fate."
Even the choice of weapons of execution was not a matter of effectiveness. It was a matter of impression.
I read somewhere that executions in the Middle Ages were so spectacular because people were used to death. The usual death was not to scare them. The people of Underrail are the same ... but this shit should even get through them.
And yes, of course, this is hideous. What did you expect? Politics at any time is shit, but the politics of people with a medieval mentality and weapons of mass destruction is a huge deep shitty swamp. In your opinion, was the demolition of the fortress something better?
Free Drones doesn't offer a future, but they never said they are and that's not even their purpose in their current state. They just realized the danger earlier than others and now fully focus their attention on solving only that - alone and against all odds.
You romanticize them. They are just a bunch of nihilists that just want to destroy the current structure and do not offer anything to replace it.
Yes, they have damn good reasons, I don't argue. If they were guys like Gorsky, who, despite all the hatred for the Protectorate, are building something of their own, I would love to join them. But they are not.
As for life without a power structure, I will again refer you to the conversations of Marcus and Ladelman. Ladelman almost brags a sister who works as a whore since adolescence. Seriously, the most hideous thing here is not the situation itself, but the routine with which Ladelman perceives it. His sister sells her body for survival - and that's fine. Most Junkyard women live like that. Ladelman's mom was no exception.
Also add pratically absent medicine, child mortality, deaths from illness, food poisoning (barrel soup, you know) and starvation... And raiders with mutants outside the settlements, just like a cherry on a cake.
You know, if I really lived in Underrail, I would have sold my soul even to Leviathan so that my friends, family, and even acquaintances would not live like that. What? I just need to assist the authoritarian government in the small genocide of political opponents with the help of non-conventional toxic substances? Sounds like a great deal.
You want to help, that's great. Get to know the area, meet the people. See the leaders - some are bandits trying to taking advantage of the chaos and abuse power, some are sensible people wishing for a peaceful and sustainable prosperity. Pick some and just support THOSE if you so want to interfere. But not by means of military force. Don't make a third side and try to outgun and outsource the others and take control profiting from the chaos and helplessness.
Nobody ever said that the Protectorate is a charitable organization, but for some reason you think that they must act as one in order to be acceptable. This is somehow naive. Everyone in Underrail is pursuing their own gain and no one is hiding it. Yes, a Protectorate can be literally tyrannical. But the price of independence is known (see above), and my character is ready for almost anything to stop paying it.
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Did anyone even talk about the task of "taking the land"? Underrail is full of unclaimed land. The task was to destroy Free Drones by any means with minimal losses. And it was done.
Geez, do you really believe that anyone thought that the Protectorate was literally after the land which houses the base of the FD? They want to take over the south. With all the harbours, cities, mines and infrastructure. Those already belong to the people who occupy it, it's not no man's land. FD stood in their path of conquest, just like some indian tribe defending their land. And you say they have to be dealth with "by any means NECASSARY"? How was gassing and making mutants out of them really necessary? You're sure there was no other way?
Should I remind you of the nuclear present for Hiroshima and Nagasaki in real history? Does it make America "evil"?
From my point of view, somehow not. It is normal for a country, any country, to do anything to protect the interests of itself and its citizens. Of course, such actions cannot be considered acceptable in our time. But then they simply corresponded to the cruelty of the era. And the current era of Underrail is no less cruel. Sad but true.
So dropping the A-bomb is not evil according to you. Even using it against soldiers is completely against the rules of engagement, here they dropped it on cities populated by innocent people having nothing to do with the war, just happen to born and live there. How can you say it's not evil? How can you say that that was any way justified? Was it really to protect the citizens of America? Who are actually on the other side of the ocean and the planet, not under any kind of threat? Did the people of Hiroshima or Nagasaki posed any danger to any citizen in the US? This kind of genocide that plagued the land for generations after stood out and were on par with the most gruesome acts of WWII including what the nazis did in their camps. And those were not corresponded to the cruelty of the era either. It was the utmost evil thing in human history.
And did FD endangered Protectorate territory, did they went against the people of the north? No. So who does the self-defense here? The Protectorate did the incursion, they were the threat to the south, no harmful action was justified from their side against people who were simply defending their space and especially not bio terrorism.
There is no "foreign territory" outside the boundaries of cities in South Underrail. It does not belong to anyone, and this is the whole problem. No one cares about raiders until they are so impudent that they raid settlements. No one controls the number of mutants.
If the cities of southern Underrail had come to an agreement and established some kind of ranger structure, at least half of the need for the Protectorate would have disappeared. Or maybe there would be no need for it at all.
Politics at any time is shit, but the politics of people with a medieval mentality and weapons of mass destruction is a huge deep shitty swamp.
Wrong again. South belong to the people who are already in there. Protectorate came from the north, it's irrational to say that they have the same right to another land than the people who are already living there. Also, please do not call FD raiders, they did not raid any settlement. South don't need any help from the outside. Never did. Why does Protectorate think that if no one establish a structure that appeals them then THEY HAVE to do it? Nobody ever asked their help, they even faced resistance. Isn't that a clear sign of "no thanks"? Anything after this is them forcing their way and thus qualifies as oppression. I don't know where you're from or what education you have, but politics are not necessarily dirty and foul play is not part of the trade. It never should be and Protectorate has no place to even engage in ANY kind politics outside their OWN country, let alone dirty politics.
Nobody ever said that the Protectorate is a charitable organization, but for some reason you think that they must act as one in order to be acceptable. This is somehow naive. Everyone in Underrail is pursuing their own gain and no one is hiding it. Yes, a Protectorate can be literally tyrannical. But the price of independence is known (see above), and my character is ready for almost anything to stop paying it.
Charity organisation? On the turf of other people, the Protectorate should be either that, or nothing. They don't have anything to do over there in the first place. Be tyrannical on your own place, don't trouble others. They have no justification to act any other way in a land where they can only be guests at best. And if it's indipendence, then no price is high enough. Even if some people are acting poorly and abuse this freedom, taking away independence (or self willingly going to slavery) is not the way to deal with it. That's like threating them as children. And also being lazy, as it cleary shows that you don't want to work on the problem. A region should develop their people, educate them, make them more mature in mind and if there are some idiots (there are always some in every group), society should just deal with them individually. Never by penalizing a whole nation that are doing just fine, carving down the benefits of their civilization that they accuired through slow and hard work. That's a damage way more immense than what any raider can do.
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. They know exactly how volatile and dangerous the mutagen is, yet they choose this weapon to attempt to destroy the drones, despite the risk it poses to civilians in Underrail. Why would you put civilians at risk (the drones hideout is right next to Rail Crossing, from what I remember), when a few dreadnoughts would do the same job? And the CAU don't even manage to finish the job properly, because you will meet FD mutants afterwards, which means some survived. (Now wouldn't it be ironic if someone in the FD would end up with the same mutation as Wyatt in the junkyard?)
I can't imagine Cathcart would ever approve gassing Drones. Storm their lair through main entrance or better send "one man army" to eradicate them, but not gassing.
CAU is not equal to Protectorate ruling elite, they are just very useful and efficient psychopaths.
Drones base is not next to Rail Crossing, it's actually far and under the station, D5 mutagen gas is obviously heavier than air, so there is no danger of contaminating rail tunnel, only Underpassages, already full of all kind of undesireables, so who cares? I found CAU's plan pretty sound. They not just cleaned "roach nest" but also send a signal to all remaining FD around. Mareth loves to incite terror, I imagine a long list of warcrimes they are proud of, and gassing is probably not the most hideous one.
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I think it's a fair assessment to make that the CAU are dangerous psychopaths, but they're dangerous psychopaths that serve a specific purpose to the leadership of the Protectorate. Shock troopers, terror troopers, whatever term you might like in regards to them. They exist in the same way that WMDs might, but also in the same vein as something far more expendable, and far more easily laden with blame.
From the general backgrounds you have of them, none of them are mentally stable individuals. One of them is even a murderer, and it can be healthily assumed from the rather lawful structure of the Protectorate that their assignment to the CAU was intended as a punishment that would benefit the state and ensure that their life wouldn't go to waste. In this general vernacular, you could even argue that Captain Mareth is little more than a tard wrangler whose gotten too involved with his subjects.
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Except that they didn't wipe the drones out completely. Mutants aren't some mindless creatures, as shown in the expedition; they are capable of organizing themselves and - obviously - fighting. Who knows what exactly survived that attack - after all, the main feature of the mutagen is that it's so unpredicatable. So yes, the CAU is incompetent.
By exactly the same logic, ANY way of dealing with FD has potential to backfire. But as a matter-of-fact, it hasn't. So CAU HAS achieved their immediate goal.
And what message does this action send to the civilians of Underrail, pray do tell? We've managed to destroy the drone hideout. Btw, the Underrail passages are now inhabited not only by random gangs of various lowlife, but also by dangerous mutants. You're welcome.
As if CAU views infestation of non-allied territories with dangerous mutants as a BAD thing. Hint: they don't.
As for lacking any real knowledge about the protectorate, this goes for the CAU too. You can try to explain their existance through the drones, but the protectorate could be lying through their teeth about the extent of CAU's activitites and targets, and you wouldn't know any better. It might be that the drones are not even their main target. What are the experiments on the mutant bodies in the junkyard for, for example?
No matter how bad Protectorate is at it's core, actions of FD legitimize the existence e of CAU.
No, it does not and to excuse the CAU means that I have to consider you to be at least to some degree at least totalitarian if not outright a fascist.
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No, it does not and to excuse the CAU means that I have to consider you to be at least to some degree at least totalitarian if not outright a fascist.
It matters not what you or I think about CAU from ethical standpoint.
In the eyes of Protectorate, FD's actions further legitimize existence of CAU.
That's simply how it work. You or I can personally believe that within our moral framework "nothing can legitimize CAU" all we want. However, Protectorate clearly does not share that sentiment.
Also, you seem to be rather confused what "totalitarian" or "fascist" actually means. An absolutely morally bankrupt government with full blown "might makes right" attitude may very well be neither of those things.
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No, it does not and to excuse the CAU means that I have to consider you to be at least to some degree at least totalitarian if not outright a fascist.
It matters not what you or I think about CAU from ethical standpoint.
In the eyes of Protectorate, FD's actions further legitimize existence of CAU.
That's simply how it work. You or I can personally believe that within our moral framework "nothing can legitimize CAU" all we want. However, Protectorate clearly does not share that sentiment.
Also, you seem to be rather confused what "totalitarian" or "fascist" actually means. An absolutely morally bankrupt government with full blown "might makes right" attitude may very well be neither of those things.
It is completely irrelevant what they think. The German Nazis thought that the atrocities they commited were for the betterment of humanity. Hint, again irrelevant, they were still fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs.
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No, it does not and to excuse the CAU means that I have to consider you to be at least to some degree at least totalitarian if not outright a fascist.
It matters not what you or I think about CAU from ethical standpoint.
In the eyes of Protectorate, FD's actions further legitimize existence of CAU.
That's simply how it work. You or I can personally believe that within our moral framework "nothing can legitimize CAU" all we want. However, Protectorate clearly does not share that sentiment.
Also, you seem to be rather confused what "totalitarian" or "fascist" actually means. An absolutely morally bankrupt government with full blown "might makes right" attitude may very well be neither of those things.
It is completely irrelevant what they think. The German Nazis thought that the atrocities they commited were for the betterment of humanity. Hint, again irrelevant, they were still fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs.
And?
There are plenty of fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs throughout history that existed with at least moderate success for dozens if not hundreds of years.
And while they exist, violent terror campaigns that target civilians (what FD are effectively up to) usually only strengthen their rule.
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No, it does not and to excuse the CAU means that I have to consider you to be at least to some degree at least totalitarian if not outright a fascist.
It matters not what you or I think about CAU from ethical standpoint.
In the eyes of Protectorate, FD's actions further legitimize existence of CAU.
That's simply how it work. You or I can personally believe that within our moral framework "nothing can legitimize CAU" all we want. However, Protectorate clearly does not share that sentiment.
Also, you seem to be rather confused what "totalitarian" or "fascist" actually means. An absolutely morally bankrupt government with full blown "might makes right" attitude may very well be neither of those things.
It is completely irrelevant what they think. The German Nazis thought that the atrocities they commited were for the betterment of humanity. Hint, again irrelevant, they were still fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs.
And?
There are plenty of fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs throughout history that existed with at least moderate success for dozens if not hundreds of years.
And while they exist, violent terror campaigns that target civilians (what FD are effectively up to) usually only strengthen their rule.
::)
The FD does not target civilians specifically. They are a picking exclusively targets who are either Protectorate or collaborators. You can spin it however you want. The CAU has no grounds for existing outside of fascistic rationalizations. You can easily do the same with elite commandos who just give you a quick death. The CAU is excessively vile and flat out evil. Not much else compares in Underrail. They are akin to the Dirlewanger brigade, just more sophisticated.
What strengthens a dictatorship more than anything is apathy. Going by your logic any kind of freedom movement should be prohibited because it might cause totalitarian regimes to "justify" horrendous extermination and/or terror units.
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No, it does not and to excuse the CAU means that I have to consider you to be at least to some degree at least totalitarian if not outright a fascist.
It matters not what you or I think about CAU from ethical standpoint.
In the eyes of Protectorate, FD's actions further legitimize existence of CAU.
That's simply how it work. You or I can personally believe that within our moral framework "nothing can legitimize CAU" all we want. However, Protectorate clearly does not share that sentiment.
Also, you seem to be rather confused what "totalitarian" or "fascist" actually means. An absolutely morally bankrupt government with full blown "might makes right" attitude may very well be neither of those things.
It is completely irrelevant what they think. The German Nazis thought that the atrocities they commited were for the betterment of humanity. Hint, again irrelevant, they were still fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs.
And?
There are plenty of fanatical bigoted genocidal maniacs throughout history that existed with at least moderate success for dozens if not hundreds of years.
And while they exist, violent terror campaigns that target civilians (what FD are effectively up to) usually only strengthen their rule.
::)
The FD does not target civilians specifically. They are a picking exclusively targets who are either Protectorate or collaborators.
So are citizens of Rail Crossing "collaborators" or "Protectorate"?