Messages

1

Builds / Re: An Average Explanation of Outstanding Psi Builds

« on: October 16, 2019, 07:15:18 pm »

Thanks a dozen for your help and expertise.

SI psychosis stealth run initiated 

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Builds / Re: An Average Explanation of Outstanding Psi Builds

« on: October 16, 2019, 03:44:39 pm »

So I dabbled a bit into Tranquility and Psychosis and am still not sure what's the definitive way to go because I am still a bloody noob.

Over on reddit someone claimed that now with Expedition Tranq would be the way to go because of psy contration spell?

What would you experts recommend in combination with stealth?

Also, does one just need to learn every psi ability possible or are there bad ones one shouldn't use?
 

 

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General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 18, 2018, 11:29:10 am »

Remember Expertise as well. Extra damage per non-critical bullet is a major part of the SMG appeal, especially the silenced (low base damage) variant.

You already have Sprint, wich is good as you need to be rather close, sometimes point blank, to hit well. Lastly, consider Opportunist+Suppressive Fire, as the latter provide a slow-effect, the combonation making your bursts do permanent 15% more damage.

SMGs are really strong, though if you are doing only light crafting, perhaps get mechanics to 50 or so, and chemistry to 20, to make repair kits (weapons degrade rather fast with) and more importantly armor-piercing bullets, to overcome your main problem with mechanical threshold/resistance.

For SMG i would also consider taking Suppressive Fire + Opportunist. Suppressive fire gives debuffs for everyone in the cone of fire, and that debuff will proc Opportunist damage increase.

Thanks to both of you for the sustained help.

I came up with this build and started playing yesterday:

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMPCAMLAwPChzIAACjCh8KHXy48I2BkKChJAAAAAAAATyQnHRY3GSZJQSg7OQ


The feats are somewhat randomly sorted.

In regard to the crafting I am unsure on how high Mechanics, Electronics and Tailoring need to be for sufficient stealth gear so the numbers maybe be not optimal.

4

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 18, 2018, 10:02:37 am »

Ok, I did some further research and came to the conclusion that I am going to play SMG.

This way I feel I have way more feats open for adjustment to my liking since -- from what I gathered -- I only really need SpecOps, Commando and high dex (which I have anyway).

The cost-benefit relation for pistols seems just terrible. 

Maybe they buff it with the expansion, who knows.

5

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:33:00 pm »

Sorry, that first part wasn't meant for you.  I was splitting that post between replying to Mirddin and replying to you.  Others have given you good advice about your choice of weapons, and your build looked pretty good.  I was just pointing out that if you wanted to free up some points to do other things, you had a few places where you have more points invested than you need.

It was useful information to me anyways so I still want to know:

Considering my build I have already planned out a heavy investment into pistol feats so it would be kind of dumb not to take the best weapon available for my build, wouldn't it?

My question therefore is if it's still worth investing into stealth this much if the weapon cannot be silenced or does it contradict the idea of stealth gameplay?

I'll give you a spoiler-free bit of non-character advice, though - rekindle those old-school habits of saving your game in different slots.  There are two points in the game where you can really put yourself in a no-return kind of situation.  It's the worst bit of design in the game because it isn't clear enough that you won't have a way out if you continue following the story.  One point is in Core City.  The other is in the Institute.  Don't just rely on quicksave/autosave.  More than one person has shown up on the Steam forums, saying they uninstalled UnderRail in anger because they got stuck with no way to recover.

I will do this.
I've read already about this on destroyor's steam FAQ guide but thank you very much for the reminder.

As others said, lower your Pickpocketing. Hardest check i know of needs about 120 and is unnecessary for someone with that high hacking. I wouldn't go over 100 effective skill.

You can also take a few points from Hacking to leave it at 130. You want that much without any hacking tool for hardest check.

Thank you. I will optimize according to your suggestions.

6

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 07:52:20 pm »

Okay, you are on to something, but I would consider the following points if I were you:

-Interloper
Lvl2+ feat, requires 7 agility, 20 stealth. Reduces your stealth movement penalty from 45% to 30% I think, and let you retain 15 movement points when you enter combat from stealth, instead of zero.
This is not mandatory for you, as you have an insanely high initiative and should preferably initiate combat without stealth (so you have all your MPs) when you can. However: if you find that you get really tired of the low walking speed in stealth, it is a great quality of life feat. You can save at a levelup, and try it out for a bit to see if you like it.

-Sharpshooter
You want it, as stated above. With critical power, you will get great aimed shots and ambushes. You can take it rather late.

-Execute
I would skip it. If you can immobilize someone at close range, they are pretty much toast anyway. Use rapid fire instead to deal great damage at close range, and save a feat.

-Grenadier
Awesome for you, good that you have it - as you play you will realize that you need those grenades, a lot. 2 turn cooldown instrad of 4 turns is huge, get it at the first opportunity, lvl 4.


Ability points:
Looking good, but perhaps move a point each from INT and AGI over to PER, to increase perception to 11-12. Accuracy is pretty vital for you, as well as increased damage. You will find out if you are comfortable with 10, but is is a bit on the low side for my taste. Also, perception helps with detection, synergy with Paranoia. And you got no traps skill and 3 CON... you want to spot those traps, even with good evasion they will tear you to shreds if you step on the wrong landmine.

But in general you are looking good. The benefit of pistols is your great initiative, so make sure you use your first turn to your best advantage (= chuck your favourite grenade at your enemies and finish the most dangerous enemy first, then retreat into cover)

Ok, but what would you skip if I am to take Interloper for example. You only crossed out Execute, but suggested two new feats to put in.

What is your opinion on the viability of stealth without all the stealth feats? The larger caliber pistols can't be silenced anyways, so I am thinking...

I think you could make a case for a Hammerer.

I see. From what I've read from the Wiki Hammerer can't be silenced because it's not 5mm caliber.
Won't this render my whole stealth approach useless?

Would you therefore recommend to move some points from stealth over to chemistry for grenade crafting or electronics for the EMP stuff?

7

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 04:34:35 pm »

first off pistols effective only in hands of untrained charaters and they cost a lot to be effective, if you really want a good firepower and stealth you should go crossbows or throwing knifes

crafting is vital in every stage of game but crafting takes important role in mid game to achieve better gear than you may find in shops or from bodies

rapid fire is almost useless if you picked spec ops feat

most vital feats for ninja build is nimble (minus 15% armor penalty plus armor class buff) AND uncanny dodge (gives you 100% chance to dodge melee attacks) and evasive maneuvres (converts all MP into evasive skill)

for offensive skill tree you need a smg and a aimed shot (100% crit) kneecap shot (bleed + severe MP penalty) commando (lets you do another burst after kill) and blitz as emergency abillity, about gun pick an steel cat 7.62 or 8.6, install smart module and laser/compesator for best spray and pray gun. Also jaguar is a choice with 5mm, rapid reloader and smart module for best sprayning

OR pick crossbow, marksman (special bolts take no AP) quick pockets AND utility belt (they are vital as good crossbow) take aimed shot feat, kneecap shot and concussive shots for delayning enemy, when you go mid-end game pick elemental bolts and vile weaponry. Keep in mind that crossbows cost a lot in early game and require crafting but in mid game you likey will not have problems with money and ammo

about gear pick NVGS with smart lens (or with adaptive), ninja/hopper tabi boots, tazer as emergency weapon and any stealth tactical vest, they provide good armor against bullets but only one type of resistance, so be prepared to carry a spare vest

Thanks for your advice but as stated above I am willing to make the investment to go into pistols over SMGs.

Ofc I am open to any suggestions or improvements regarding the build-link I posted above.

8

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 03:27:38 pm »

I honestly would not recommend pistol without solid investment in crafting. Unfortunately not weapons were created equal, and pistol is much closer to the lower end (and believe me, i'm saying it with bleeding heart, since i love pistols too). And without crafting they are about half as good, which is you can imagine is...not very good at all. So you have to choose between your aversion to crafting and desire to play with pistols.


Well, that's about it. Hope i was of any help. Good luck and enjoy the game, it's not a perfect one but pretty good at scratching that "old school" itch)

Ok, thanks again.

I feel like I have made my decision then:

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMOCAMKAwXChzIAACjCh8KHeEvChwBfXwAAQQAAAAAAABcBHlsxJlkRKEtOFjkC


To bring this thread to a close, would that build carry me through?

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General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 02:25:20 pm »

I would recommend playing SMG build, it's close enough to your stat distribution (just remember to pump the dex to the max on lvl ups). It's more powerful than pistol or crossbow builds and doesn't rely heavily on crafting - there are decent unique weapons for that type and smart goggles are sold at the shop, which will allow you to be decently good at killing stuff. I goes well with stealth and Ambush feat, since you can find silenced SMGs allowing you to pick enemies in smaller grounds if you need to. And it has relatively simple build - Spec Ops + Commando. If you take Grenadier and Three-Pointer along with decent throwing skill (as was pointed out - around 80 effective skill) you would be golden. I would also suggest Paranoia for additional boost to initiative and detection. Opportunist + Suppressive Fire are also good combo to boost you damage even further along with applying some debuff to the enemy

Attribute points needed - Dex as high as possible since it affects how AP per shot you are using, Per around 10, Agi 7 for feats. Also, if you don't intend to craft anything 7 points in Int is such a waste. Drop it to 3, you will only need to spend couple more points on hacking and since you don't do crafting, you have them.

Well, thanks again for your sound advice.

I think I will go with what you propose stats-wise but I still have two questions in mind:

- I am going to play normal so do I need dodge/evasion or would you recommend skipping it completely and maybe just invest somewhat into crafting (I consider tailoring for the trenchcoat and tabi boots, maybe mechanics for silencers?)

- I would really prefer pistol over smg. I'd be ok with throwing as secondary combat skill for the grenades. What feats would you recommend for that route?

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General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 10:44:26 am »

I am an RPG-Player of old as stated in my initial post.

Doesn't matter. Higher difficulties require deeper understanding of the system than you possess. That's not a jab at you, it's just a consequences of you not wiling to spend enough time at this game. If you want to make just one run of the game, play at Normal. And believe me, it's not 'normal' from modern games, it can be quite hard, especially first time, so don't worry about challenge.

I understand what you're saying.

Ofc I do not have the understanding I have with games like BG, F1/2 or so but then again if I had I wouldn't come here to ask for advice, right?

I will play on normal but my initial question was not about difficulty level but about a build with stealth which can explore most of the game without having to avoid fighting constantly.

Then I've read it's a much more combat heavy game like F1/F2, so I came up with a slightly different concept in my last post.

11

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:58:21 am »

First of all thanks to all of you for the advice and the help.

I have two things in mind as it stands now:

1) Staying true to my idea but with light crafting as TheAverageGortsBy suggested.

2) Making a different build more in the direction of what STEN proposes but without the psi-stuff but not with sniper rifles but with pistols or xbows (but xbows need heavy crafting I've read)

Maybe something like this but I am unsure on perks again and not sure if pistol or smg for stealth...

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMKCgMKAwfChwAAAMKHwofCh31swodkAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABFzkeME4CNiRPMSYR

The last one is a problem - find every hidden passage requires high PER but PER is useless to a melee/psi char. I would say save this for a second run w/ a gunner/xbow char.

Maybe a stealth pistol build is a good idea then?

Stealthy sniper (pistol\smg sidearm) with mind control and exploration skills:
PS: Interloper is vital.
I can post a perk list if needed.

That would be much appreciated.

UnderRail is largely a combat game.  So what you're suggesting for your build is a little weak, not because it's nonsensical, but because you don't have as much freedom to avoid encounters in UnderRail as you did in the old Fallouts, for example (well, aside from Tactics, obviously...)   Let me syllogize you briefly. that's not really a word btw

Crafting results in greatly superior gear to purchased/found gear.
You want to minimize the effects on your character from a no-crafting build.
Therefore, you need a build that is not gear-reliant.

Ok but from what I gathered I want to play a very gear reliant build.

So maybe I will follow your advices on taking some light crafting eventually.

Yeah, Thailand is great, i agree.

I've never been there myself, but I hear great things.

Gotta love autocorrect sometimes.

Thanks for the travel advices but I am already going to Crete this year.

If you don't have time to play several times and don't want to bother with crafting (kinda stupid, since this crafting system is nothing like fucking Skyrim's crafting system), i would strongly recommend playing on Normal or maybe even Easy. Don't worry, the game will still be sufficiently hard for you, since, again, this is not a fucking Skyrim.

I am an RPG-Player of old as stated in my initial post. I don't want another Skyrim or (even worse) Witcher 3 because they are not RPGs in my eyes.

I also do realize very well that Skyrim's crafting system was particularly stupid.

So what would you suggest if I am to take some crafting skills for the aforementioned build?

12

General / Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 15, 2018, 10:17:53 am »

Hi y'all and thanks for having me,

I am new to this game and am quite unsure on how to build my character.
After watching NerdCommando's build guides on youtube, which I all dislike because all his stealth chars are crafting heavy.

I don't know how to proceed without possibly creating a gimped char.

Apologizes also in advance for any grammar mistakes etc., I am not a native speaker (or writer for that matter).

It would be mucho appreciated if some experts could find a moment of their time to look over my build design:

Introduction
Limitations: As you could probably guess I have a strong disdain for crafting in RPGs. I understand that it makes sense in the game's setting but I just don't like crafting as a RPG gameplay mechanic generally (hated it in Skyrim/Fallout 4 -- but those weren't RPGs on the otherhand -- was glad it was minimal or not present in Fallout 1/2 or BG1/2 etc.). The build should have none or minimal crafting (I've read there is a certain 'cloaking device' which one cannot obtain via merchant...)

Concept:

• I want to play a stealth char who is capable of stealth kills via either throwing or melee.
• I also want to pickpocket.
• On traps I am not sure how viable they are without the possibility of crafting them by yourself.
• I want to open every container, hack every computer and be able to find every hidden passage etc.
• I have no problem avoiding encounters but I don't want to have to avoid too many them because I am not capable to kill.
• I wouldn't mind speech talents but I don't know if they are viable.
• I wouldn't mind toying with grenades and/or traps if there are enough available for purchase.

Starting Stats
Strength       3    (no crafting, no guns etc., no blunt -> not needed)
Dexterity      10  (for max. dmg)
Agility          10   (for max. stealth)
Constitution  3    (just no)
Perception    6    (for seeing everything)
Will              3    (no bueno for the build, I guess)
Intelligence  5     (for feats like cheap shots or expose weakness?)

Skills
With the skills my uncertainty begins:

• Should I take melee or throwing or both?
• Should I take evasion or dodge or both or neither?
• Should I take traps at all?
• Should I take persuasion (I've read somewhere here on the forums that intimidation is more or less useless?
• Something I missed?

Feats
Unsure again:

• I am pretty sure I need interloper, sprint, paranoia, cut-throat (if melee), recklessness and opportunist.
• Does ambush work with throwing knives?
• How useful are escape artist, fancy footwork, nimble, uncanny dodge, blitz and should I take it for the build in mind?
• Something I missed?

Thank you all in advance for any help you can provide!


PS: I just don't have the time at hand to figure it all out by myself via trial and error like back in the days when there was no internet and I had the time to play days and hours of world of xeen on my 486dx. My RL just does not allow it to play through games multiple times or try stuff out for hours. Since this is the char I want to play, I turn to you guys for advice.