Messages

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 25, 2020, 12:06:26 pm »

So a PSI (magic caster) build is forced to have high agi / stealth? What is this nonsense?

"Caster" is not a complete build. It just gives you "casting" as such. If you want other things (mobility, initiative, etc), you need to build for them. If you choose NOT to build for them, don't act all surprised when you can't win initiative rolls and have poor mobility.

New system essentially punishes using multiple schools, more than one, by the very least you have to get +1 useless feat keeping psi expenses the same when using 2 schools.

It only "punishes" using them within the same encounter. In no way it restricts you from having access to all schools as long as you don't try to use all of them at once. And even then 10% extra cost is not a major "punishment".

So a psi build cannot work without craftable gear to lower the psi costs? Cool.

Your point being?
Most other build will not even HAVE a good weapon without crafting.  While with psionics gear mostly effects sustainability.

Yes you do fight tchort and robots at the same time in multiple locations over the game.

No, you don't. Please provide video evidence of an encounter where you are forced to fight both robots and tchort at the same time.

Psi build is the only one that has no weapons and loses a lot on it.

I fail to see how psions having no need for a weapon to deal the same damage with their mind alone is a bad thing.
If anything, it means you can use any weapon without interfering with psionics.

Psi builds already have to max will - for damage output and max INT to be able to innervate spells.

No, they don't. You can innervate spells with int of 6 or 8 just fine.

Even before the patch it was lacking a lot, now its simply not worth playing.

Some players have completed the game on dominating with psions without a single reload pre-patch. If that's "lacking", do show me some evidence of another build can pull that off.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 24, 2020, 08:43:20 am »

This is really bad changes and it fixes nothing. If psi builds will be forced to specialize in one tree that means even more excess skill points and more cheaper build to spec in overall.

What psi does have an issues is lack of sustainability in any of the school, lack of spells, and high expense of those.

4 Branches (1 is support) so it cannot be counted as an actual damage branch.

So 3 branches. None of them are sustainable to walk you through the game. You can do it with knives, you can do it with sword, you can do it any gun selection, but you cannot go through the game with just 1 psi branch.

I was going metathermics and telekinesis before last boss, where I had to switch to thought control to kill him. Because metathermics maxed out would deal no damage to Tchort, unlike though control that ripped him apart in 1 turn.

Thought Control absolutely useless vs robots and if you go it I cannot see you getting through GMS compound. Even if you go telekinetics, Electrokinesis is a very weak and highly expensive spell vs robots, and metathermics is useless.

You are not supposed supposed to only use a single school through the game under new psi system.
The only thing new system really limits is using multiple (realistically, more than 2) schools in the SAME combat encounter. But you are not fighting robots AND Tchort at the same time, are you?

Psi builds are extremely slow due to "spell cooldowns" and the need to regenerate psi points, the 100 you have is like 2 spells or 1 turn at best. Note as well as due to low agi low dex, low str. Any psi build is lacking = Good metal armor, Good initative, Good movement speed, Good dodge and evasion. So you are literally a glass canon that always moves second, you also already have minus -20-25% hp vs any other game class.

This is so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start.
Nothing prevents you from using psi-cost-reducing gear and boosters to sustain your psi pool almost indefinitely.
Nothing prevents you from taking high agi if you want mobility and stealth.
Nothing prevents you from using stealth to always get the highest initiative.
Etc, etc.

3

Let's Plays / Re: Checking out Expedition as permadeath pure psion. [ DOMINATING ]

« on: September 10, 2020, 12:11:04 pm »

Another day, another run.
Now with the final incarnation of the psi patch.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 03, 2020, 10:19:11 pm »

If I'm not mistaken though, turning on the option in this attachment and then running underrail.exe directly from the Underrail folder prevents Steam from updating the game unless you run it through Steam again. In case that's something people want. This works for most games on Steam.

Sure, but most players will get an auto-update first, and only then realize that they may not like the new system all that much.
At which point without a legacy branch there wouldn't be an option to go back to the previous version.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 03, 2020, 08:58:03 pm »

Last I checked Steam forces you to update.

See attachment.

What you just posted proves that steam forces you to update by default.
All option in that list are branches that developer manually added. I.e. if "Legacy" wasn't added manually, it wouldn't have been an option.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 02, 2020, 04:16:34 pm »

3) Well pure psi is real bad now,

This is provably false. Some players still do dominating ironman runs with pure PSI with little to no problems.

Those two statements don't contradict each other.
A) Some people can probably do dominating with really bad equipment, yet good equipment is still helpful, and necessary for most players in most situations. What is useful for the vast majority may still work for some people.
B) Some psi abilities are really good, and repeatable. But the update takes away versatility (purposfully so), so while it didn't hit, or just slightly nerfed, some of the better abilities (though some of them got hit quite hard), it diminished the efficiency of other abilities.

I assume for me it just added a lot of tedium (reinnervating), but I can understand that the high end needed to be balanced.

I can agree that pure psions are somewhat less versatile after the update.
But they are nowhere near being "real bad".
Pure psion is still one of the strongest builds overall.

1) The fact is that most have already completed the game. And the sequel is unknown when it will be released, and perhaps it will be a separate game.
2) And who forbids whom to play the old version? In addition, whoever wanted - he left it for himself long ago.

1) There are always some players that haven't completed their current run.
2) Um, that's the WHOLE POINT of having a separate legacy branch. Unless such branch exists, the game will simply automatically and irreversibly update to the newest version.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 01, 2020, 10:58:02 pm »

To add to the ever growing mound of suggestions, has it been considered to make a new game option like with classic and oddity exp?
I.e. EZ mode (classic psionics) vs Normal (New psionics)

This approach is almost guaranteed to require something effectively very similar to maintaining two code bases.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 01, 2020, 10:22:24 pm »

3) Well pure psi is real bad now,

This is provably false. Some players still do dominating ironman runs with pure PSI with little to no problems.

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Development Log / Re: Dev Log #68: The Psi Question

« on: September 01, 2020, 10:57:52 am »

You're tricky. Who will remain in the old branch if there are no updates. This is not a compromise.

Compromise or not,  it addresses directly two types of complains
1) "Don't change rules in the middle of a play-though.".
2) "The game was much better before the patch, just let me keep playing that."

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General / Any chance for the current stable to remain as a playable branch after patch?

« on: August 17, 2020, 06:04:52 pm »

Given somewhat mixed reaction to the psion re-balance patch (I personally love it, but opinions differ and all) and given that most distribution platform have options for multiply branches (that's how we have stable and experimental on steam):

Is there a chance current stable will remain available as a playable branch after the next patch is deployed?

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General / Re: Crafting of new "Psi inhalant" consumable discussion.

« on: July 28, 2020, 04:24:14 pm »

on anything but dom you should be rolling in so much money that its not an issue

Ok, let's talk dominating, with 92 merc:
184 for components for 1 inhalant (excluding mindshrooms)
or 172 for components for 6 psi boosters (excluding mindshrooms), that sell for 412
And you need 287 to just BUY an inhalant

So even on dominating you still get ahead by just turning all mindshrooms into boosters, selling the boosters and buying inhalants with the cash.

P.S. That's ON TOP of the fact boosters crafting does not require any chemistry.

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General / Re: Who exactly sells blueprint for new Psi inhalant?

« on: July 28, 2020, 08:21:44 am »

While both blueprints and components being added to relevant vendors is definitely welcomed, now there is a new problem:

Combined ingredients for a single inhalant cost 460, while the inhalant itself costs only 250.
Moreover, 160+ of that cost comes from oxygen tank and sponges -- ingredients you will have to buy.
So crafting inhalants (over just buying them) will either actively lose you money, or give rather tiny benefits.

Overall, feels like either oxygen tank cost needs to be lowered, blueprint yield increased or there should be (cheaper) a way to refill those oxygen tanks.

Except that Mindshrooms are basically free.

Just compare psi booster vs psi inhalant:

Booster sells for 275, takes 310 in components to craft, out of which only 25 are not "free mindshrooms". So you buy syringe for 10 and 3 ampules for 15 and get 275 of value in the end.
[ 25 -> 275 ] overall, 1:11 ratio, superb savings

Inhalant sells for 250, takes 460 in components to craft, out of which 175 are not "free mindshrooms". So you buy oxygen for 150, 3 ampules for 15 and sponge for 10 and get 250 of value in the end.
[ 175 -> 250 ] overall, 1:1.42 ratio, "why bother" savings

P. S. I'm not saying components need to be cheaper. Maybe just the inhalant itself should be more expensive, or something. But as of right now, on anything but DOMINATING, it's more profitable to craft mindshrooms into boosters, SELL boosters, and buy inhalants if I want inhalants (assuming surplus of mindshrooms). Not craft inhalants directly.

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General / Re: Crafting of new "Psi inhalant" consumable discussion.

« on: July 28, 2020, 05:04:59 am »

I would be perfectly fine with increasing base cost of inhalants. 500 or 750 does seem more appropriate. 

As long as crafting recipe  starts to make actual financial sense.

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General / Re: Who exactly sells blueprint for new Psi inhalant?

« on: July 28, 2020, 03:34:33 am »

While both blueprints and components being added to relevant vendors is definitely welcomed, now there is a new problem:

Combined ingredients for a single inhalant cost 460, while the inhalant itself costs only 250.
Moreover, 160+ of that cost comes from oxygen tank and sponges -- ingredients you will have to buy.
So crafting inhalants (over just buying them) will either actively lose you money, or give rather tiny benefits.

Overall, feels like either oxygen tank cost needs to be lowered, blueprint yield increased or there should be (cheaper) a way to refill those oxygen tanks.

15

Let's Plays / Re: Checking out Expedition as permadeath pure psion. [ DOMINATING ]

« on: July 26, 2020, 01:04:56 pm »

Trying out the new build once again (from the start) today.