Messages

1

General / Re: Al Fabet

« on: February 21, 2016, 11:09:38 pm »

"This is not theory, this is what the game encourages you to do and what the developer wants you to do."

Exactly. The problem is that you approach this from your point of view: that loot is the single, utmost important driving force of an RPG. Loot is not the life force of an RPG, it's not the Alpha and Omega of RPGs. It is to some, but not all. Underrail is one of those where the loot is not the focus. The stories and quests are, I'd argue that the combat is the focus but that's an entirely different discussion. That you say that the single thing that makes people do quests are the reward is not true, that's a guess. Because you don't know. What we do know however is that the loot system is not as big a problem as you make it out to be, the relative lack of complaints and the general positive reviews for the game supports that despite having restricted inventory, the game is regarded as very good. If the problem is as vast, as huge and global as you say it is then the statistics would be different but they are not. The reception even proves you wrong, you said previously that you predicted that the game would be received poorly by the buying public, it has now been proven that is untrue.

Your claim of objectivity rings false because it comes from a place of intellectual dishonesty, you're so devoted to your cause that you can't think objectively, you are strictly viewing all of this from your perspective and your perspective alone. You claim that you view things objectively but you don't. Man, take a deep breath, step back and look at the response. Surely you must have questioned your reasoning? Surely it must have crossed your mind that maybe, MAYBE you are putting way to much importance and faith into what you write and think? You act like a preacher with a bible. I mean, your unshakable devotion that you are right and everyone else is wrong is so surreal to me given the copious amounts of counterpoint after counterpoint from various places.

I think this is the last thing I write regarding this (I probably said that last time as well but hey, I'm just a dude). You're simply impossible to reach.

2

General / Re: Al Fabet

« on: February 21, 2016, 10:04:15 pm »

I guess the only thing I can say to that is you should check out the stuff made by Team ICO, their games are univerally praised despite being incredibly minimalistic and restraining. Though it should be noted that their design philosophy actually improve their game, it's a philosophy called design by subtraction. That giving players options is always a good thing is not true, it's highly situational and it all comes down to what you want to say and how you want your players to react to the box you put them into, the more cleverly you design a game, the more the size of that box cease to be relevant, what matters is the posibility space given. So no, there's no objective truth to game design, at least not as long as we as human beings set the precedence for what should be considered objective, because all our impressions are subjective.

"...The new system pretty much seems to encourage..."

No, it encourage *you* to do all those things. This is what you need to understand El, this is the way *you* force yourself to play the game because it's not designed the way you want. Most players do explore the maps, do quests and pick up loot, the difference is that they do it in accordance to the rules. You want to sidestep the rules and thus you get punished and you feel unfairly treated. It's about your response to the rules, not the rules themselves. You don't want to take responsibility over your reactions and want to blame everything else for being unfair, badly designed or objectively flawed. You need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and realize that you are having a problem with the system, the system is not the problem.

No, it's not just as easy as "just putting it back". Unless you want something untested, unbalanced and subpar. Remember that a lot of balancing has been made since the change, and without the previous model in mind. The game is not balanced for infinite inventory and unrestricted trading. How much that imbalance is we don't know and that's why I said previously that it's futile to speculate and saying that it's just a matter of a few lines is speaking from a place of ignorance, unless you know the framework, which we don't.

3

General / Re: Al Fabet

« on: February 21, 2016, 09:12:22 pm »

The forums is cutting posts with certain character, give me a minute to fix this. ^^

EDIT no 13: fixed it. Gee these forums man

I should mention that when I say Styg I mean the development team, not just Styg himself.

Removing features from a game can sometime require just as much resources as adding features. I work with games so I know this. We don't know how much work was required to rebalance the game after the update released and since.

It's ok that you feel let down but that's on you, it was never a promise it was a consideration. He didn't snag something from under your nose, he removed something you like, there's a difference. And it's a bummer for some but let's not pretend that this is on Styg because it isn't.

Your perspective is not objective, it's entirely subjective and that's ok. Evident by the fact that some of the points you bring up as bad/good are being perceived as the opposite by someone else. And don't retaliate with that one thing you said a while ago about liking/disliking an "objectively flawed" system because that's a logical fallacy. The simple fact that people have different opinions on a matter renders every opinion on it subjective. Including your own.

This is not a matter of making something right or wrong, better or worse. It's a matter of intent and design, Styg wants his players to play after a certain set of rules (like every other single game), you just happen to dislike some of those decisions and try to justify it by twisting it and convincing yourself that you're objectively right. There's such a thing as being overly confident in your ideas and I think you are irrationally married to what you think is good design and won't hear anything else. It's impossible to debate with you because you haven't reasoned yourself into thisso it's impossible to reason you out of it.

If I were looking at things objectively (or at least as objective as I can because objectivity in itself is kind of a flawed concept when applied to human rationale) I would conclude that: some people like this, some people don't. I happen to dislike it, well bummer but what can I do.

I mean you can dislike a system, you can air your opinion about but when you get to the point where you are unflinching in your devotion to convince others you're right you will find it even harder to convince others because you paradoxically seem talked into thinking what you think rather than rationalizing you way there, even if it comes from yourself. That's why preachers are such easy targets for ridicule.

4

General / Re: Al Fabet

« on: February 21, 2016, 08:13:18 pm »

It was kinda heavily implied after a while that it wouldn't happen though, I mean years ago. No one is denying that you feel as though your feedback is being mocked, for all intents and purposes the character perfectly illustrates the kind of gameplay Styg wants Underrail to have. What I'm trying to say is that it's not your suggestion in itself that is being made fun of, it's that your behaviour honestly kinda warranted this kind of response. Some of the stuff you've said about the design of Underrail implies that you think Styg is incompetent by saying that the design is horrible, non-ironically ranking the game as one of your worst and calling the design objectively flawed.

We can always discuss whether it would require lots of development time without getting to a conclusion because honestly we don't know. There might have been a significant amount of balancing in work to get this to work and there might have been very little. If they were to implement something like this it always comes down to whether its worth it and we don't know either way because we lack info. Therefore speculating on that is futile.

It sounds like you feel you've been betrayed or let down. It was a maybe after all. And they decided no, for whatever reason. Though I think Al Fabet hints quite strongly that it was simply a design decision and maybe a wee bit of spite like you suggest. *shrug*

5

General / Re: Al Fabet

« on: February 21, 2016, 06:15:34 pm »

He didn't make a mockery out of serious and good feedback. It was (and still is to an extent) good feedback, the problem is that no matter how many times it was repeated that this is the way the design is heading and your feedback is good but not in line with their vision, you kept bringing it up and prodding this issue despite knowing it won't change. Sometimes even going to frustrating lengths like saying that their design is objectively bad and other such nonsense. That's the thing that is mocked, not the initial feedback. I think you need to look at this with some good ol' self-aware, self-deprecating humour.

6

General / Re: Al Fabet

« on: February 21, 2016, 04:31:05 pm »

Are we still bringing this up? I thought it was a lost cause?

I might be misinformed but are there trainers that allow you to remove the carry weight? I think I heard someone mentioning it, could be wrong. Trade limits might be more difficult to alter, not sure if there are mods for that yet.

It all comes down to intent and design, which is subject to the creator and not the ones that play it (most of the time). Styg decided that the game will work this way, there's really nothing to do about it (aside from modding). One can debate this forever, there's no right or wrong answer. What matters is why it was implemented the way it was, not why something else wasn't. I have already detailed my thoughts on the why's of the design of trading and encumbrance in Underrail so I won't repeat myself again. I just find it funny that this is still rolling knowing nothing will change. I think this discussion was heading the wrong direction from the start.

7

Suggestions / Re: Altering the level cap (Warning: Text wall)

« on: January 01, 2016, 10:39:08 am »

Pillars of eternity had a system where you could only get so much xp from the same enemy type before you'd get none at all. I guess something like that could help balance. You could still gain materials and other loot. In This game not respawning enemies would penalize you in more ways than one and that's unfair I think.

8

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #45: Game Released

« on: December 18, 2015, 10:57:23 pm »

Whooo! Congratulations!

9

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #44: New Trailer; Release Date Moved Forward

« on: December 11, 2015, 01:27:08 pm »

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy

10

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #43: Closed Beta Testing; Release Date

« on: December 05, 2015, 11:41:18 pm »

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy

11

Other Games / Re: Wasteland 2

« on: June 27, 2015, 09:08:03 pm »

Well, Wasteland 2 has a much larger scope than Underrail. But yeah it was really buggy on release no denying that. As for depth and complexity, I have to respectfully disagree, they focus on different things and they both have strength. I'd say they are pretty even.

12

Suggestions / Re: Lack of Directions

« on: June 10, 2015, 11:10:34 am »

I agree it would be nice with a world map to understand the relativity between zones. It can be hard to organize that mental map after a while with such a big game, especially when you're going through cave systems, you easily get lost.

13

General / Re: Making character run

« on: June 07, 2015, 12:05:33 pm »

There is no running in the game, though the general movement speed was increased some time ago. I also think there are trainers that increase game speed.

14

General / Desura Parent Company Filed for Bankruptcy

« on: June 05, 2015, 03:07:45 pm »

Ought to let everyone know.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/245334/Desuras_parent_company_has_filed_for_bankruptcy.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+News%29

EDIT: The post editor is acting up again, omitting parts of the post. Sec..

EDIT2: whatever, can't copy/paste the text, just click the link. :/

15

Other Games / Re: List of sandbox games?

« on: June 02, 2015, 01:58:22 pm »

Dustbowl just got released on Steam, it's similar to Wasteland, mixed with Metro and STALKER. Check it out