Body Weight Training is very skewed.

[mex]

The requirements for acquiring body weight training are unreasonable when you consider and compare the acutal benefits of the feat with, say, nimble.

Body Weight Training requirements:
-10 strength
-Level 26
Benefits:
-10% decrease in armor penalty.

Nimble requirements:
-None
Benefits:
-15% decrease in armor penalty.
-grants a 15% bonus to both dodge and evasion if your armor penalty is zero.

As you can see, nimble not only has literally no requirements, it also severly outclasses BWT in terms of effect.
This is very nonsensical, considering that BWT is a veteran feat, it's effects are very lackluster, and it's requirement is too high.

In conclusion, I think BWT should either have it's requirments reduced(Demoted to regular feat/Lesser strength requirement/etc), or it's effects should be increased(more significant reduction of armor penalty/secondary bonus similair to the way nimble gives a boost to dodge and evasion/etc).

[ShoggothWhisperer]

The reason body weight training is so much worse than nimble is because it can potentially allow you to go under 20% armor penalty with super steel armor, if you combine it with armor sloping and specialization. You can then use it on a fist build with lightning punches to deal high damage, have high mobility, and be extremely durable. Body weight training is fine as is.

[mex]

It most certainly is not. It makes no sense for a veteran feat with high stat requirements to be objectively worse in every way when compared to a regular feat that can be grabbed at any level by any build. If BWT won't receive any buffs to address this, then the effects of Nimble and BWT should be swapped.

[ShoggothWhisperer]

It most certainly is not. It makes no sense for a veteran feat with high stat requirements to be objectively worse in every way when compared to a regular feat that can be grabbed at any level by any build. If BWT won't receive any buffs to address this, then the effects of Nimble and BWT should be swapped.

Compared to most of the veteran feats, body weight training is quite good, since you can reach 10 str at character creation, and lots of characters have high strength. Bodybuilding requires 12 con and only gives an 80 health boost. Expert sprint requires 13 agi, and only gives a 10 ap boost when sprint is activated. Veteran feats are meant to be niche feats for specific builds. Nimble is better than body weight training because it is the feat that enables evasive builds, so it needs to be powerful and available early. The advantage of body weight training is that it stacks with nimble, which can let you wear heavier armor while retaining low armor penalty bonuses.

[Barry]

Veteran feats are a let-down despite how late you get them, I made a forum post about it once. If anything excess strength should reduce effective armor penalty, but that's another matter. Body Weight Training is a rather weak feat considering that it actually gets outdone by a regular feat, either the effect needs to be a lot more substantial or it should be repurposed for something else entirely that still benefits tincan builds.

The reason body weight training is so much worse than nimble is because it can potentially allow you to go under 20% armor penalty with super steel armor, if you combine it with armor sloping and specialization. You can then use it on a fist build with lightning punches to deal high damage, have high mobility, and be extremely durable. Body weight training is fine as is.

You get it at level 25-26 minimum, at that point in the game you're killing anything no problem, being tanky on top of that because you built for it this whole time is just cherry on top.

[mex]

Compared to most of the veteran feats, body weight training is quite good, since you can reach 10 str at character creation, and lots of characters have high strength. Bodybuilding requires 12 con and only gives an 80 health boost. Expert sprint requires 13 agi, and only gives a 10 ap boost when sprint is activated. Veteran feats are meant to be niche feats for specific builds. Nimble is better than body weight training because it is the feat that enables evasive builds, so it needs to be powerful and available early. The advantage of body weight training is that it stacks with nimble, which can let you wear heavier armor while retaining low armor penalty bonuses.

That's all well and good, but it does not change the fact that BWT is, quite literally, just a downgraded version of nimble. At a higher requirement cost.
Expert sprint has a high requirement but it is a straight upgrade of sprint. Not to mention that 10 action points is not a negligible amount, and neither is 80 health.
But when it comes to BWT, you've literally been going through the entire game without that 10% less armor penalty, waiting to get BWT, and when you finally get it it just feels like such a let down because of how little impact it has at that point in the game.

[Tytyger]

balanced because its make nimble much better, allowing wearing heavier armor at no penalty to nimble.Expert sprint is just 10 ap on top of the sprint already do, you never take bwt without nimble, think of nimble as prerequisite of bwt