Video discussion

[SQ1]

Am I the only one who didn't like the new combat system at all?

[harperfan7]

You're the first that Ive seen so far.

[haze1103]

I buy the point that the old full-turn system was pretty swingy. Lots of builds could manual enter combat and destroys most threats before the enemy had any chance to act. It was easy to put yourself in a situation where your build was quite fragile, but could pass as long as manual combat and initiative was in your favor.

We don't know enough to know how deep the new system can go. I wouldn't like if all the complexity was really just numbers crunching from all the ways weapons can be customized and used. In the current system, you can combine lots of cool perks and active abilities in one turn, and pre-combat drugs can give massive boosts based on encounter type. It would be sad if everything ended up into a strict action economy where most actions cost taking a hit from all enemies, and the intuitive thing is just to trade hits with whatever move your weapon has that hits the enemy best.

I'm interested but I admit I can conceive that it might take some balancing for many years before I start enjoying it. Like how I really didn't like the original psionics, which took many years to turn into a normal build with limitations

[MirddinEmris]

Am I the only one who didn't like the new combat system at all?

I hate rtwp with a passion. And that is basically rtwp with mandatory pause after each action. It does seem like i will pass on infusion.

[SQ1]

1) It looks bad visually. "Stop-frame" animation with such gorgeous detail.
2) I'm afraid this will destroy most of the tactics the old game provided without giving anything in return.
3) And most importantly, it does not suit the style of game itself. There are always more enemies, but in the original game I could kill one, immobilize the second and hide from the third at my turn. And here - I beat one, everyone beats me, I beat one, everyone beats me and I lose. In fact, the end of the video demonstrates this.

I really hope that the author will change his mind and return to a proven system that can be improved, but should not be broken.

[MirddinEmris]

In fact, the end of the video demonstrates this.

Yeah, pretty much what i concluded as well. Turn based you can use your movement to reposition so that your cone of fire would cover most enemies, shoot at them and maybe use the rest of the movement to get around the corner. Here you have little choice but to try to slug fest your way out because trying to reposition would mean death most likely.

[ciox]

It's a little scary but also too early to say for sure. I am very curious to see more about this system, especially what length player actions can be, if you are properly rewarded for undertaking a very long action or shortest actions will always be the most optimal, etc.

[haze1103]

I don't think the system compares to RTwP at all, since there's no real time mode. The moment the game enters combat mode, nothing happens until you do something - it's a roguelike system, with enemies reacting after every action, which also includes moving one tile. But the video itself does show that sometimes combat starts in the middle of walking and you can waste quite a few turns walking around while the enemy sets up on you. I'm hoping there will be a setting to go on full halt the moment you enter combat.

I guess it's relevant to note that enemies didn't seem to always attack after an action (at least the rathounds seemed slower), so it seems still possible to take actions without immediately taking damage. It's possible the equivalent of this game's Sprint (I know there's a built-in run) will let you rush somewhere as a reaction.

[SQ1]

The problem is that there can be many different enemies at the same time. While you are moving away from one, the second shoots at you, and the third throws a grenade.

[MirddinEmris]

I don't think the system compares to RTwP at all, since there's no real time mode. The moment the game enters combat mode, nothing happens until you do something

While in pause nothing happen until you do something. That's literally what rtwp is. Because you cannot act without enemy acting at the same time, so you basically in rtwp but you have autopause after each action, just worse.

Btw, i predict it would be "fun" to use any aoe, trying to guess where each enemy will be after you use your action.

[apollounderrail]

I truly loved the old system, however, let's be honest:

- Using TM or various perks allowed you to do massive damage to formidable groups of enemies without taking any hits at all. The many, highly effective 3 con builds were pretty obscene.
- Conversely, losing the first turn often meant instant death on dominating, e.g., versus Carnifex.
- Watching a screen of enemies each taking full turns one by one was boring, and necessitated time hack apps.
- Being able to run past a whole pack of rathounds all in one fell swoop, while they sit there doing nothing, was immersion breaking and silly. I quite enjoyed watching how the rathounds closed in around the player.

Have some faith! Do you really think the same devs who made Underrail and Expedition will release something unfun, or that lacks strategic depth?

[DaviddesJ]

Have some faith! Do you really think the same devs who made Underrail and Expedition will release something unfun, or that lacks strategic depth?

I think it's possible. I've seen other examples of where developers overreact to perceived weaknesses and in trying to "fix" them take away what made the first game so great.

[apollounderrail]

I think it's possible. I've seen other examples of where developers overreact to perceived weaknesses and in trying to "fix" them take away what made the first game so great.

Ok, I think you're right on that. Perhaps it will work out fine, or perhaps the devs will adjust the changes to be less drastic. I'm happy with the concept of shorter and more frequent turns, however.

[SQ1]

You can simply increase the speed of the game.