Dev Log #38: Version 0.1.14.0 released

[Loriac]

My only question about the new minimum ap cost is whether it should be 4ap or 3ap (and I'm just throwing this out there, I don't know which is better really).

Dex 15, lightning punches, tabi boots previously gave an ap cost of 3 for unarmed (10 - 4 - 2 - 1) which now would be bumped up to the min of 4.  Dex 11 I think is the minimum for 3ap reduction on fists, which along with the other factors would hit the minimum 4ap cost.

I'm not sure if this is good or bad to be honest: 4ap / attack = 12.5 attacks per round, 3ap = 16.7 attacks per round.  The real cheese (in my opinion) kicked in when you got down to 2ap.

The upshot is that a pure fists build now has 4 stat points freed up (the additional benefits of going from 11 to 15 dex are much harder to justify when you're not getting the extra attacks per round imo).  Conversely, total damage output has gone down but then again once you factor in feats like expertise its quite possible that combat is unbalanced even at the 12.5 attacks per round level.

Given that other melee weapons gain relatively from this change (e.g. ap reductions from taste for blood are unlikely to be useful now for fist builds), its possible that fist base damage may need to be adjusted to compensate.  Again, I'm not really sure about the full impact here, but I recall that fists used to be considered poor damage relative to other options, and these changes may undo some of the other balancing that was done.

[Mindless]

Yeah adrenaline gives 70 ap, so you can get 17 shock fists in at 4 per round.  Given you can then run around a corner and not take any damage because of fancy footwork, doesn't that feel fair?  As far as stunlocking people with 1 ap fists, I bet hilf can tell you what that's like

We can't count adrenaline as usual case, only "Self buffs".)
1 ap is horrible i agree with this but even with 1ap you will stunlock 1(cost)*50(ap)*0.15(probab)=7.5(ok 8 people). This is cool indeed! but... you can throw flshbang for this effect(mb lesser not 8 but 6) and only for 15 ap. So stun is not the main case here =P

If You can attack for 1 AP You don't care about stunlocking at all

That's the spirit!

Dex 15, lightning punches, tabi boots previously gave an ap cost of 3 for unarmed (10 - 4 - 2 - 1) which now would be bumped up to the min of 4.  Dex 11 I think is the minimum for 3ap reduction on fists, which along with the other factors would hit the minimum 4ap cost.

Dex 15 can be achieved either by lvl 20 or lvl 16 + temp +1 Dex. For fists weapon 3 - min and i can't see the way you can get even lower ap costs... So 3 - is good MIN.

[Fenix]

_3_ will be ok)

I think that too, but we need testing.
Even if 4 AP as minimal cost will be unchanged, we at least got rid of one perk - Lightning Punch, because now there is no sense to take it.
I prefer to see the positive side in everything. )

The upshot is that a pure fists build now has 4 stat points freed up (the additional benefits of going from 11 to 15 dex are much harder to justify when you're not getting the extra attacks per round imo).

...or we have 4 stat points, true.

[Greep]

So... seems like supersteel might be a bit too hardcore, finally got a 150 quality and a 130 quality after 7 tries




Whoos is it kickass when you reinforce it with tichrome.

And with the insulated tichrome helmet coming up that makes immunity to energy and mechanics, 50 dr in fire, as well as ~25 dr in everything but bio

[Styg]

Yeah... I might have to implement some diminishing returns there. Being completely immune to mechanical damage sounds a bit too op.

[Greep]

Well, it was actually possible without supersteel by using tungsten, but not possible to get both energy and mechanical until now.  Certainly not immune to w2c, which I've only seen dreads use.

[hilf]

Yeah... I might have to implement some diminishing returns there. Being completely immune to mechanical damage sounds a bit too op.

This is outright broken. While changing it keep in mind that fast melee weapons and xbows increase mechanical DR by 25% so even 80% DR is enough to negate all of their damage. Well, i didn't actually tested it but this is what description suggests.

[Greep]

Well, I think the crossbow is cool as a niche weapon rather than a main weapon, although it should be put under subterfuge if that is the case so as not to confuse newbies.  But I suppose it sucks even at that xD 

Right now without feats to improve special bolt damage it's kind of like a pistol build without any feats or dexterity lol.  It'd be cool if you could craft supersteel bolts that ignore all DR/DT altogether, tichrome bolts that ignore half, and have special bolt damage scale with xbows.

As for DR, I have played cans for the majority of my characters, so the 80 resistance cap implied above is a bit overkill: That would make them worthless all the way until you get supersteel.  There's kind of bad sides to consider either a cap or diminishing returns so it seems like a choose your poison thing: a cap would make high crafting skills much less useful, diminishing returns would make one forced to use fully supersteel for the higher qualities (which might suggest supersteel should be given in 80-130 rather than 70-160).  I guess you could do both?

[hilf]

- acid bolts are kind of crap (compare with acid pistols or acid bullets)
- tranq bolts are kind of crap (compare with cryo pistols, cryostasis, mental breakdown or high ql pneumatic strike)
- shock bolts are kind of crap (compare with electroshock pistols, shock bullets or electrokinesis)
- incendiary bolts are kind of crap (compare with incendiary pistols, incendiary bullets or pyrokinetic stream)
- all poison bolts are kind of crap (compare with poisoned throwing knives)
PS. Styg, you promised explosive bolts years ago! And now you've got the mechanics for them in explosive bullets.

What?!

Are guns supposed to completely replace xbows?
I don't have much problem with chemical pistols as they needed some more love, but those bullets ...
I bet there are cryo bullets as well.

[Mindless]

So... seems like supersteel might be a bit too hardcore, finally got a 150 quality and a 130 quality after 7 tries
Whoos is it kickass when you reinforce it with tichrome.

Nice one!   

Yeah... I might have to implement some diminishing returns there. Being completely immune to mechanical damage sounds a bit too op.

That's never was the hard task with tung steel oO
Even Energy+Mech(with full set of metal boots, helmet and body armor) was possible with right combination of different "steel's" of high quality(110+)

But crossbows? They really have become the weakest weapon class over time. Last time they got love was back in 0.1.5.0.

Crossbow now is generally dump weapon with some weak feats.
All, yes, all bolts are crap. Sad but true =(

JHP and W2C rounds also got buffed, from +25% dmg to +40% and from -50% resistance to -65%.

I think W2C must be nerfed again) They are too cool %)

[Styg]

Hotfix 0.1.14.2 released:

• Blitz feat and ability description fixed
• Player's damage resistances capped at 95%. Some re-balancing will be done in the final version to prevent certain armors from being too OP, but for now this will at least prevent players from becoming invulnerable to mechanical damage
• Various minor dialog and map fixes

[Mindless]

Hotfix 0.1.14.2 released:

• Player's damage resistances capped at 95%. Some re-balancing will be done in the final version to prevent certain armors from being too OP, but for now this will at least

Noooooooooooo!  :'(
Bye-bye "Heavy Metal" armor build?

P.S. More advantages for light-armored guys! =P

[Greep]

95 is doable   Was worried it'd be 90 xD That would've been harsh.  Incidentally, just cleared the fort so

[Fenix]

Maybe crossbows can be cheap and readily available source of debuffs?
Something like bleeding+MP+AP reduction (with right bolt of course).
Like supersteel bolts with serrated\jagged tips, that have armour piercing effect, descreasind damage resistance, or treshhold?


Also, can we have a quest way to get some unique materials in very limited quantity?
Or devices, or weapon, or chemicals.
For me - it's much, much more attractive and interesting way to obtain something.
It's post-apocalipsis, after all.
Lots of places that were centers of power, abandoned military bases, scientific facilities.

For materials it could be like some kind of automated furnace for smelting (powder metallurgy or something like this), so you should first fix it, then power it, calibrate, find raw materials.
Just an example.

[Mac Orion]

We were talking today how to improve crossbows, most likely we will add more poisons with unique debuffs, from a gameplay aspect its not so bad that crossbows aren't that effective against robots, but yes they are a bit lackluster compared to other weapons. (While testing i had a build with throwing knives and 250 effective throwing skill, doing up to 300 raw crits, at first styg was like well that needs some nerfing, but still having that much throwing is still a niche, crossbows have some nice feats, maybe they get some more interesting once but don't take my word to much to heart)
Would we have a more complex system for stealth and sound, crossbows would have a good place for stealth builds, but that wont happen in underrail, maybe some other project in the future.