Heavy Melee Build unplayabel with Heavy Armor?

[VaeliusNoctu]

Hello,

i started a Heavy Melee Build, a Character with a Sledge Hammer and Metal Armor. 10 STR, 7(10) DEX, 8(10) Constitution, 3 Perception, 3 Agility, 4 Willpower, 5(6) Intelligence. (means how i set the upcoming Attribut Points)

I found it very annoing for the reason i must run to opponents and lost much Action Points for my low Move Points. As far a i can say a Sledge Hammer Build with a Metal Armor is:

a) the weakest ingame build ever

b) maybe unplayable

c) the most time-consuming Build (fights i mean)

With a Tactical Vest or Riot Armor and more agility for movement points its possible, but you need then evade and dodge. Otherwise you run more then you Sledge anything. But even with that i think a sledgehammer Build is are weaker then all other Builds and need Balance.

Stealth Knife Builds are ok but atm the Ranged Builds are by far Stronger. To Bad i found it interesting to play a Melee Build.

[Greep]

Heavy melee is most certainly not unplayable, however it is inferior to heavy assault in all cases since the last update. 

As far as the build, get 6 agility for sprint, enough intelligence for the best gear (you need 5 for some feats, it's debatable whether hammer should go 7 tho), rest str and con imo.  For playing, it's pretty easy: just move behind a wall to force enemies to come to you, then wham them in the face.  Sprint so you don't lose ap in the process.  Hit and run is probably a good choice too, been a while since I've played the build so I don't know if it works in heavy armor or melee tho.

I think sledgehammer should be weak on purpose because... I mean come on, in an era with lasers and guns you're choosing to bash things with a hammer.  Sledgehammer was deliberately very weak in fallout games as well, at least 3 times harder than an energy weapon character.

[SadBaxter]

Have you gotten armor sloping and nimble? Have you tried using some high-quality tabi to offset the penalty to movement?

[hilf]

This is the cheapest build (attribute/skill-wise) so it makes sense it's not very powerful.

You may consider taking just enough Psychokinesis to learn Force Field that will make your enemies come closer.

[SadBaxter]

Oh, also GET SPRINT. Adjust your build so you've got 6 agility and pick it up as one of your first abilities. It's a free 20 MP for two turns, unaffected by armor penalty, and you can use it at any point in your turn. It's incredible for every build.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Heavy melee is most certainly not unplayable, however it is inferior to heavy assault in all cases since the last update. 

As far as the build, get 6 agility for sprint, enough intelligence for the best gear (you need 5 for some feats, it's debatable whether hammer should go 7 tho), rest str and con imo.  For playing, it's pretty easy: just move behind a wall to force enemies to come to you, then wham them in the face.  Sprint so you don't lose ap in the process.  Hit and run is probably a good choice too, been a while since I've played the build so I don't know if it works in heavy armor or melee tho.

I think sledgehammer should be weak on purpose because... I mean come on, in an era with lasers and guns you're choosing to bash things with a hammer.  Sledgehammer was deliberately very weak in fallout games as well, at least 3 times harder than an energy weapon character.

Thank you, but I know that too. You talk from a complete different Build here. As I wrote above, I am speaking here of a Heavy Melee Build with Metal Armor. This means 80-95% (depending on crafting Feats) mali to agility and less Movement Points, Evade, Dodge. Already the second step costs AP. And you can see i have in my Build only 3 Agility btw. What i mean as a "Walking" tank you can play only as Assault or with other ranged Builds but not melee.

Next problem is you have not allways the Option go behind a wall.

No offense. This is Underrail and not the Clumsy fallout. The developers put, fortunately, worth it, that you can decide for yourself what you preferred Melee, Ranged, or PSI.

@SadBaxter
this makes not a Big Difference i tested that (nimble and Armor Slooping) With Metal armors you become 65(armor slooping and nimble) 80(armor slooping) -95%(nothing) armor Penalty. Even with Armor Crafted from High Quality Items the Character is lame.

But that Sprint maybe help i dont know that this is not effected from armor penalty maybe i let Dexterity on 7 and go for agility 6. I test this. If i can get from other Ressources 8-12 Movepoints very High Tabis and Nimble and Armor Slooping i maybe can get enough MPs to play a bit better. As far as i rememberBut i think even after this Sledge Melee can need more love and Balance. Realy Powerfull is High Dexterity Stealth Knife Builds WOW with a bit CC through Though Control very nice. But have a Steath Character and like to tryd something different.



@hilf
Force Field helps not realy much.

Skillwise?!? I dont Posted how i use my skillpoints. But Attribut Points was Focused on Metal Armor and Melee thats true. I dont need Points in Perception as Melee and Willpower 4 and INT 6 is by far enough even if i use later Though Control (what is planed). Agility makes no sense with Metal Armor i though bevore SandBaxters Post but now i invest 6 Agility to get Sprint maybe that helps a bit.

[LightningMonk]

I'm doing a heavy armor melee build right now and I'm wondering if crafting striders allow you to keep a good deal of movement points with a high armor penalty versus tabis. No seems to be mentioning them so it's starting to sound like they're useless or something. :/

[Fenix]

Strider boots seems more useful for Sledgehammer, than Tabi.
Also don't know how useful -1AP in melee attack for that build.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Strider Boots gives you less Movement Points i used both Strider and Tabi Boots. Same made from Quality Items 120+.

Pros for Tabi= 36 Movement Points and immunity against immobilize effects +10% Movement Speed (evad+dodge bonus but thats useless with a metal armor you lost 95% of that Bonus either way)

Pros for Strider= 20 Movement Points +100% damaga for dirty kick (ok but you dont use dirty kick for the damage) and +25% Movement Speed very nice!

I would choose the Tabis more Movement Points and immune against immobilize effects. Or use both Striders for walking longer ways and Tabis in combat.

I love the Striders more but in my situation i need every MP i can get.
As far as i can say immobilize effects are realy rare in that game (only Mutated dogs and in the arena from core city sometimes) or not?

@Fenix
Makes only a small difference -1AP. I choosed Dexterity for the +% Critical chance if you mean that and some feats. 6 was enough for cheap shots (sounds like a ranged but its a melee feat) so i dont need 7 DEX 6 would be enough forgot why i go for 7.^^

[VaeliusNoctu]

@Epeli
Ok How would you create a Heavy Melee (Sledge Hammer/Metal Armor) Build? I mean i too can say simple "lol" thats easy. And if you post again please keep in mind the Topic is "Sledge Hammer and Metal Armor"...if you have a idea for that and not another Build im afraid to hear. Your Posts was in the Past thoughtful...This time it is unnecessary and unhelpful. I honestly can not see the sense unless you have today your troll day. lol

If you say its stupid make a Heavy melee build with a Metal Armor i can only agree, thats the reason for that Thread. I think its unplayable with a Metal Armor (go for best Protection) but asked to hear some Exp from other players. After i get the Stuff i tested how much Armor Penalty i get from Metal armors full of spikes, maybe Melee builds should not use Metal Plates.

The Best Feedback was from Sad Baxter the idea go for 6 Agility and some Feats can maybe make this Build better.

I do not create that Thread for a Standard Melee Build it was for a very special Melee Build. If this Build is not the Best Idea...ok...i like to Experiment...and Experiments fails sometimes.

Anyway, I find it not bad. I want merely Feedback related to this topic

[UnLimiTeD]

Conditioning grants Reduction, not Resistance.
As for the combination of Sledge and Heavy armour, well, yeah, a heavy weapon with short range and heavy armour is not an ideal combination.
That's like a PSI-Build with full Metal armour, it's not as strong as other options.

So far, I've seen that heavy armour needs less skills.
I've already suggested a skill to break open crates and boxes and some doors, but maybe what we'd need is a skill for movement in heavy armour.
Light armours put skillpoints in dodge/evasion, heavy armours putting points into boosting their defense isn't that off.
Alternatively, maybe a charge attack feat?
In any case, yeah, the build style could use a little help.
Currently, it seems ironically the best to not try to reduce penalty at all.
Accept being slow and spec into so much armour you can take the next hypo before you die.
Speaking of which, can NPCs run out of ammo?

[VaeliusNoctu]

@Wildan

Sounds good for me and sensfull. Bad is lol i made a crappy Melee Build with my Dex on 7.^^

Thx thats a nice Feedback i restart now...after level 12 muah...but your Build looks awesome for me.

My First Build i go over 10 with a Attribute. Sounda Interesting realy.

EDIT: @

Unlimited

STR attribute should work against Armor Penalty maybe for every STR above the Armors STR requirement -5%. So with Super Steel armors needs 8 STR and 15 STR on the CHaracter its -35%. +Armor Slooping and nimble you can have an metal armor with 65%-35%=30% Armor Penalty thats ok.

[Greep]

That's a pretty good idea, as realistically only a sledgehammer build could take advantage of it.

[UnLimiTeD]

Or any other melee build for that matter.
The reason I suggest a skill is that when I tried building a heavy melee last time (grew bored at level 2^^) I could more or less max out every crafting skill because I had so many skillpoints, whereas on a stealth build, skillpoints are at a premium.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Yes thats true:

-Melee max
-Throw (effective 70) for some AOE
-Hacking (efffective 100)
-Lockpicking (effective 80)
-Mechanics max
-Electronics max
-Tailoring (effective 100)

and i Personaly use in all Builds Persuade to max

after i stop invest Points in Hacking, Lockpicking, Tailoring and Throwing i put them in 1 PSI Skill and Biology effective 70 and the rest in stealth. I know you dont need Stealth (Metal Armor Builds), but with 60 Points in stealth and good equip you can reach with that 160-220 Stealth with(Armor 50, boots 30, Baclava 30 and Cloacking Device 50). I do so the Stealth jobs with my Assault Build lol.

For the most other Builds you need Evade/Dodge or one of both and for Stealth Builds more Points in Stealth (100). But i must say i skip most dodge and kill the Melee NPCs with Sniper rifles or use Fear, Mental Breakdown etc...