Need help, I keep running into the same wall every game. Am new.

[hilf]

One thing you have to keep in mind is that you'll likely have serious trouble sourcing ammunition.

This. Take more perception, less dex, to make each bullet matter more. Especially if you are not going to use laser sight.

[Frank]

Guys, are we playing the same game? I have stacks upon stacks of 5mm, 7.62, 8.6 and that's without buying it. Remember, past the drill parts the economy of the game is never an issue. I view the usage of a single ammo type as a very small benefit, just one less thing to hassle with. Even after one shop run you can simply buy the type of ammo you need from every vendor that sells it and you should have at least 600 rounds of the ammo you need. 8.6 hits hard as hell so you never need to use a lot of it. 7.62 is probably the most common ammo type in the game. 5mm is probably the second most common. I never make decisions based on economics in this game, it's foolish.

[VStraken]

Alright folks, here's the new character build that I've been playing around with. I've been satisfied with my combat with him so far, but would appreciate input again as a lot of my later skill and feat choices reflect that I'm experimenting with various things and are likely not completely optimal. I'll start with at creation first:

STR 3
DEX 9
AGI 6 (tops off at 7 for Interloper)
CON 3
WIL 3
PER 9
INT 7 (for Disassemble)

Guns 15
Throwing 10
Dodge 15
Evasion 15
Stealth 13
Hacking 12
Lockpick 10
Mech 10
Elec 10
Tailor 10

Nimble
Expertise

And here is how he is currently, just about to start the Core City line of quests and standing at level 17 currently:

DEX 12
AGI 7

1-Nimble
1-Expertise
2-Opportunist
4-Disassemble
6-Interloper
8-Spec Ops
10-Grenadier
12-Three Pointer
14-Commando
16-Doctor
(18)-Hit and Run

Guns 95
Throw 50
Dodge 93
Evasion 93
Stealth 44
Hacking 63
Lock 47
Traps 17
Mech 64
Elec 60
Chem 31
Bio 29
Tailor 64
Intimidation 10

The logic behind my choice of which skills to raise was basically just to ensure I got the SMG burst related feats ASAP, with evasion, stealth and throwing related feats being the next choices in that order, and everything else being an afterthought. As such my guns and defense skills were maxed (or close to it) each level, followed by my main subterfuge skills, then my main tailoring skills, then everything else. Doctor is there partially to get through a single quest and partially because I found it annoying to have to use a hypo if I got just a fraction of a percent below 40% health (which often gets displayed as 40%!) though I haven't run into a shortage of health hypos yet.

With regards to my tactics, I use stealth to close with the enemy, wait until they are bunched up and toss a grenade in (typically an incendiary), followed up by as many bursts as I safely can loose. I've found that opportunist doesn't really have a chance to be utilized with this particular style, and Hit and Run would have been a better choice as I would have been able to fall back and give myself space to make another strike, escape, etc. I thought I would be using flashbangs to utilize the benefit of opportunist but there just aren't many flashbangs available prior to, and even a quite a few levels/quests after, the drill quest. Sure Step would also have meshed well since I also like to use caltrops to create chokepoints and warn me of potential flanks and even kill flankers before they can get to me, but of course they deny the area to me as well which has been troublesome on more than one occasion, and I figure now that I ought to have picked that over Three Pointer. Fortunately none of these problems have proven crippling to this playthrough so far!

Guys, are we playing the same game? I have stacks upon stacks of 5mm, 7.62, 8.6 and that's without buying it. Remember, past the drill parts the economy of the game is never an issue. I view the usage of a single ammo type as a very small benefit, just one less thing to hassle with. Even after one shop run you can simply buy the type of ammo you need from every vendor that sells it and you should have at least 600 rounds of the ammo you need. 8.6 hits hard as hell so you never need to use a lot of it. 7.62 is probably the most common ammo type in the game. 5mm is probably the second most common. I never make decisions based on economics in this game, it's foolish.

I'm also going to echo this sentiment here. Even though my playthrough isn't optimal I don't find myself short for ammo, at least standard ammo; I do go through a lot of W2C and JHP but even then I rarely find myself having to dig in to the standard ammo. As a matter of fact I've started carrying less ammo since I find myself hurting for encumbrance more often than I do for ammo, and on more than one occasion I've found myself walking out of a fight with more bullets for my guns than before the fight! I'll say though that I think a lot of it is helped by, as one of us said earlier, using more than one caliber, at current I've been using a 7.62 and an 8.6 gun, with the 7.62 being nice for taking out trash and 8.6 for dealing with more threatening opponents.

EDIT: Forgot PER and Intimidation

[Frank]

Huh. Your build is similar to mine with the notable exception being the stealth. Those points in traps are a complete waste IMO. Honesly SMG's seem to be one of the most lenient builds feat wise. The only must haves are probably spec ops, expertise, and commando. BTW you forgot to mention how much Per you have I assume it's 8.
My feat progression:
L1-Sprint, hit and run
L2-Gun nut
L4-Expertise
L6-Supressive fire. It works well with evasion, but I'm not sure it's necessary since 99.9% of the time you kill everything before it gets a turn. According to the wiki it will synergise with opportunist, then it will be a must have.
L8-spec ops
L10-Skinner. If I understand the feat correctly it buffs the component twice. Once when you create infused leather and another for the actual item, that's a huge buff.
L12-Grenadier
L14-Commando
L16-Three pointer
L18- Nimble
L20-Power management

I'm most curious about why you took opportunist so early? Are you using the electroshock pistol, taser, or throwing nets? The only way I'll take opportunist on my guy is if I get quick pockets. I'm using the ammo belt for faster reloads and that allows for only three utility slots. Replacing frags, emp's, or flashbangs for a net or taser is a no go. I also want to have 2 SMG's to fire more and reload less so electroshock isn't worth it either.

Edit: I would also raise stealth every level if I went that route and chemistry until I reach at least 69. MKIII nades become relatively available so raising chemistry up to 50 doesn't give you much. MKIV and MKV are rarely dropped and never sold. So either 69 or 112 is the way to go.

[VStraken]

Thanks for catching that-it's actually 9 PER I've got. My experiences so far have me leaning towards the opinion that it does not have to be that high, and I could get along well enough with 7 minimum.

From my experience, Opportunist wasn't the best of feats to have that early. I would have replaced it with Hit and Run, if I knew then what I knew now. I did try using nets a few times but I just found it easier to lead in with a grenade, hose down the leftovers with bursts, and fall back if necessary. The flashbangs find the most value for the opportunist feat here and only now have they come into significant numbers, so it was essentially a waste to have opportunist that early as I experienced it. It might work better with more throwing skill in order to make those nets worthwhile, but that's just more points that could be used elsewhere.

The points in traps I'll agree are a waste. I was mostly just experimenting with the trapper belt and the jackknife to see if I pull something worthwhile out of it with a minimum of investment into the skill but so far it's just been a waste of time and points seeing as everything still explodes in my face or can't be disarmed, and mines are easily dealt with by using basic nades to trigger them (and sometimes chain them, though I haven't had any luck in catching some poor bastard with them yet).

The investment in chem/bio is definitely to get myself making the high quality nades, so I'll keep on with it. Thanks for the input!

[Frank]

Flashbangs aren't beneficial with weapons that rely on multiple hits to do their damage. Yeah, you get one hit which does 35$ more damage but who cares? For SMG's and knives stuns slowdons, and immobilization is where it's at.

Don't bring bio past 60 if you aren't relying on psi crits if you are, go up to 70, but no higher than that.