Flexible Nimble

[hilf]

I like feats that scale with attributes, Conditioning for example. It would be cool if Nimble worked like that as well and instead of fixed armor penalty reduction it would give, for example, -(10+agility)%.

[Fenix]

Maybe at least 12+Agility for those with Agi 3? )

[Wildan]

I like the idea, and I also agree with Fenix. 12+ Agility would give Nimble the default value for Agi 3 characters. With 8 Agi it would make 20%, enough to bring some good non-metal armors like ancient rathound leather armor to 0 armor penalty. This would be a good countermeasure against metal armors which are still greatly superior compared to top light armors.

There is also currently little reason to go high on agility. The only feat that needs it fully is Blitz and it's not worth it since the nerf IMO. This would give a bit more incentive to make high agility builds.

[Fenix]

Wait, what are penalty for ancient infused rathount leather armor?
Siphoner too.
I always thought it still 15%.

[Fenix]

Well, it's look like I'll stick with infused siphoner leather armour, except maybe few cases.
Or maybe not, who know what's more effective.

[Wildan]

Nice theorycrafting there with 2x agility formula.
Let's compare the effective dodge/evade (synergized) skill at level 20, with varying armor penality, agility values all through 3 - 15 and how new Nimble formula (2 x agi for both AP reduction and bonus) compares to the current one (flat 15%). For this purpose I made an Excel sheet with the exact formula: Base dodge/evade skill at level 20 is 110 with every agility point above 4 providing 8,5% bonus. The 10% malus at 3 agi doesn't apply because it's offset by the synergy between the two skills. Bold purple values indicates that only Nimble AP reduction applies with no skill bonus (total armor penalty is not at zero).



Requiring minimum of 5 or 8 agi for various 10% and 15% AP armors just for full Nimble bonus might be too much. This would only tip the favor more towards the metal armors. Most builds require min 6 str already: Pistols, snipers, ARs (7 for Full Auto feat), gloves (7 for feats like Wrestling and Bone Breaker) so in most cases it would still be better to invest 1-2 stat points in strength and go for metal armor, instead of extra 2-5 in agility for a Nimble-able light armor.
Maybe the 12+ agility formula would actually be better. In that case 8 agi for ancient rathound leather armors is still pretty high. Any build will miss those extra points somewhere else so it's not without a price.

I don't think that the issue is actually with light armors or Nimble. It's just that metal armors are way to powerful and really need a nerf. Maybe by giving them a cth malus of lets say 10-agility %. That way agility would be relevant to them as well.

[Fenix]

Wait, I don't understand.
Why 15% AP with current Nimble (3 Agi) had 126, and the same 15% AP with Nimble Agi*2 (which mean 16% AP reduction, thus MORE) has 100?
Apparently I lost the thread of reasoning.

[Wildan]

Because of:
 2 x 3 = 6
15 - 6 = 9
     9 > 0

[Fenix]

and 2+2=4 I know.
But don't understant what it has with Underrrail.

[UnLimiTeD]

I have a tingling feeling you're kinda talking past each other,. 

[hilf]

and 2+2=4 I know.
But don't understant what it has with Underrrail.

With 3 AGI new Nimble would give 3 * 2% = 6% AP reduction. With 15% AP from armor total AP would be 9%, and because it's more than 0% Nimble gives no bonus to dodge/evasion.


I'm not so fond on 2xAGI formula. Sure, it gives AGI more impact but it kinda pushes Nimble into 'high AGI only club'. Considering Nimble has no AGI requirements it does not feel right. You would need 8 AGI to get that sweet Nimble bonus with 15% AP armors.
And if Agility were to increase dodge/evasion bonus as well, 2xAGI formula gives AGI too much impact.

edit: and this is why I think you should have at least 10 agi to nimble secondary bonus with ancient rathound leather - it's very strong armor.

Agree.


So I'll stick to my initial idea of 10+AGI. Builds with less than 5 AGI will not get bonus with 15% AP armors but they don't benefit that much from it anyway.

[Fenix]

With 3 AGI new Nimble would give 3 * 2% = 6% AP reduction. With 15% AP from armor total AP would be 9%, and because it's more than 0% Nimble gives no bonus to dodge/evasion.

Wait, I thought new formula is 10% AR + Agix2? Or something?
That's the roots of misunderstanding.

So I'll stick to my initial idea of 10+AGI. Builds with less than 5 AGI will not get bonus with 15% AP armors but they don't benefit that much from it anyway.

Well, that's doesn't feels right. Nimble was designed just for that anyone can get this bonus it seems, so better 12% AR + Agi.

[hilf]

There's one more option, something the game already does (for example with Conditioning):

-15% and additional -1% per AGI point above 5

[Fenix]

Or so. )