Author Topic: Sledgehammer build  (Read 34754 times)

Zeroo

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Sledgehammer build
« on: December 31, 2015, 01:16:26 pm »
Hi, I just bought the game on steam after hearing so many good things about it and I'm going to start playing soon. I plan to build a sledgehammer character wearing heavy armour and I was wondering if the following stats and skills are a good idea:

To start with I am thinking about
Str 9
Dex 4
Agi 5
Con 10
Per 4
Will 4
Int 4

Then putting a point in agility at level 4 for sprint and after that just continue putting points in strength.

As for skills I plan to put 15 in melee, 15 in throwing, 15 in traps, 15 in mechanics, 15 in electronics, 15 in chemistry, 15 in biology and 15 in tailoring. And trying to max all those skills. (or up until maxing them any further wouldn't be worth it any more). The plan is to be able to craft really good sledgehammers and armor for myself, plus crafting all my bombs and traps as well.

I have no idea about what the essential feats are for a sledgehammer build. What are good feats to take?

Do you think with this build I can play through on hard mode? Any things I should keep in mind or change in my starting stats? Or any other useful tips?

Wildan

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2015, 03:14:54 pm »
My rule of thumb is: Never put a stat at 4. Seems like a good idea at first in order to avoid the -10% skill penalty but it's a big mistake as those points will be dearly missed on other important stats, even if it means just one extra point of endurance. With the exception for your offense (either strength or dex for melee skill, perception for guns/crossbows, will for psi) and defense (dodge, evasion, endurance) NEVER waste a precious stat point just to boost your skills. Raise other stats only for the purpose to obtain a certain feat. For example raise intelligence only till the point where you can pick your desired crafting feat or whatever feat you need that also requires int.

Will 4 for example only gives you a tiny bit of resolve against psi attacks and that's it. You won't be using any social or psi skills so there is no point with it anyway. Leave it at 3.
Same with perception, you won't use guns and as for discovering secret passages 1 point won't get you anywhere (putting more for this reason would be even worse). Dump it to 3 as well.
Dexterity: 4 will give make your lockpicking a bit higher but you won't need to max that one anway, the same with traps. In fact you can dump traps completely on a metal armor build providing you didn't dump endurance. The ONLY good reason to raise dex above 3 on a pure Sledgehammer build is the Cheap Shots feat that requires 6. (15% chance to incapacitate on hit, +50% critical hit damage). It's not mandatory though.
Intelligence: 4 alone is also not of good use but you'll probably want to raise it to 5 or 6 anyway because of some good feats. Cheap Shots needs 5, Expose Weakness as well, Armor Sloping and Weaponsmith need 6 and both are good choices.

Strongest sledgehammer build relies on bleeding buffs and debuffs. It means you must be able to procc bleeding on enemies via serrated blades on your metal armor because of:
1.) Taste for Blood feat (buffs you with up to additional 50% extra damage when you hit a bleeding enemy + you hit slightly faster) and
2.) Vile Weaponry feat (up to 30% extra damage -75% healing on bleeding enemies).
Pair that with full strength (+1 on each stat levelup), Expose Weakness (-50% damage resistance and threshold on enemies), Bone Breaker (crtical hits put up to 50% damage debuff) and you'll smash through metal armored guys like through paper.

There are two different builds I'd recommend. One is more offensive:
10 Str (end with 16 at level 24)
6 Dex
7 Agi
5 End
3 Per
3 Will
6 Int

The other is a more defensive max hp Jaggernaut/Super Slam build:
10 Str (end with 16 at level 24)
3 Dex
6 Agi
10 End
3 Per
3 Will
5 Int

I can gladly give you a detailed build with feats/skills later when I get back home.

Zeroo

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2015, 03:18:43 pm »
I can gladly give you a detailed build with feats/skills later when I get back home.
I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you very much already for your help!

Wildan

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2016, 10:23:26 am »
This is the offensive build:

I recommend these skills: http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGlEYBYQJgVhOAbCFB2ECDMIctGghFguCYueMKEgnEWBadY1U46Jx0A
Note that I didn't put any feats in as this is purely for skill distribution.

This one is more defensive and probably a better choice for the hard difficulty (I'd still advise you to start on normal for your first run):

http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGlEYBYQJgVhOAbCAzCF5TvQ0B2PRVI8ExGADhHwJVAnLKLk3IbE4aA

Both rely on stealth and after attacking from it you lose all movement points so that's why sprint is important. You'll notice that despite metal armor I took both defensive skills for the first build. Thanks to the Armor Sloping your armor penalty wont be terrible and you'll have still good use from it. Just make sure to not use any additional plates on metal armor and don't forget the serrated blades, also don't bother raising throwing/biology until you can craft the best armors and sledgehammers possible at your current level. You'll need mechanics, tailoring AND electronics for that. Electroshock sledgehammers are a must.

I skipped dodge for the defensive build because your armor penatly will be too high anyway (you need 50+ for Juggernaut) and dangerous foes will hit you anyway. This is where Guard feat comes in and thanks to Thick Skull it will never become useless. You can squeeze it into the first build too by replacing Nimble and moving it to an earlier level.
Evasion is still good to have even when around 60 or so armor penalty as every little bit of it reduces the AoE damage. Besides, ranged enemies have a more difficult time to hit you compared to melee because of more harsh modifiers like distance, max gun range etc.
I don't like taking chemistry on melee builds because you'll have plenty of granades and special ammo is useless to you anyway. Making own stims and some drugs is useful for hard diffuculty but still not a must. You could let it at 10 and use the rest for the throwing skill to be a bit more accurate with granades and compensate for the fact that you're not as manouverable as the offensive build.

The order of feats is not set in stone but I'd recommend to stick to it as much as possible.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 10:25:42 am by Wildan »

Manator

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 07:43:12 am »
I've finished game once with stealthy sniper psi and it was breeze. Looking forward for some more challenge and would really interested to play pure melee/heavy armor/sledgehammer build. Your second build looks pretty interesting, Wildan, but may I have some questions about it. How would you manage to avoid all these traps, especially these annoying coil spider's,  with such low perception and zero investment into trap skill? You've mentioned stealth plays important role for this build, and I do agree stealth is awesome, but I simply cannot see how would you use stealth if you use heavy armor most times. Should I plan to use particular secondary weapon, because I found it very difficult to progress at early stages with sledgehammer when you can perform only two or even one attack per turn :/
Some tips would be appreciated.

chrislor

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 05:48:44 pm »
I've finished game once with stealthy sniper psi and it was breeze. Looking forward for some more challenge and would really interested to play pure melee/heavy armor/sledgehammer build. Your second build looks pretty interesting, Wildan, but may I have some questions about it. How would you manage to avoid all these traps, especially these annoying coil spider's,  with such low perception and zero investment into trap skill? You've mentioned stealth plays important role for this build, and I do agree stealth is awesome, but I simply cannot see how would you use stealth if you use heavy armor most times. Should I plan to use particular secondary weapon, because I found it very difficult to progress at early stages with sledgehammer when you can perform only two or even one attack per turn :/
Some tips would be appreciated.

Hello, for traps, with the synergies it will be achieved for the minimum points for see traps without using any points in that ability. For stealth, you can use it with heavy armor if you combine the nimble feat and sloping armor. for secondary weapon, I use fists more "Force Emission" but if you do not use psi ... Maybe the "the claw" combat glove is equally useful.
And watch out for merchants, can offer tichrome bars (for the hammer) before foundry.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 06:28:37 pm by chrislor »

Wildan

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 02:45:14 am »
I've finished game once with stealthy sniper psi and it was breeze. Looking forward for some more challenge and would really interested to play pure melee/heavy armor/sledgehammer build. Your second build looks pretty interesting, Wildan, but may I have some questions about it. How would you manage to avoid all these traps, especially these annoying coil spider's,  with such low perception and zero investment into trap skill? You've mentioned stealth plays important role for this build, and I do agree stealth is awesome, but I simply cannot see how would you use stealth if you use heavy armor most times. Should I plan to use particular secondary weapon, because I found it very difficult to progress at early stages with sledgehammer when you can perform only two or even one attack per turn :/
Some tips would be appreciated.

Traps? You walk over them. Well, not deliberately but with a solid super steel armor, preferably with a sturdy vest (100% of quality translates to bonus hitpoints), infused siphoner leather tabbis, 10 CON and Juggernaut your hitpoints and resistances will be good enough to survive the worst acid traps easily. As for the frag (Mk V) mines, while they have the highest damage potential, most of it is mechanical damage and you have exceptional resistance against it. Not just because of the armor but also because of the resistance that gets applied after it.

These stack together: Conditioning, Stoicism, lifting belt, infused ancient rathound leather (5% on armor and tabbis each), mushroom brew, aegis and morphine drug.
You'll have: Conditioning 15% + lifting belt 10% + mushroom brew 10% = 35% resistance against mechanical damage that you will have all the time. With the armor and this alone, Carnifex - the last arena opponent will do little harm as he deals only mechanical damage (plus he can't stun you with Combo).
In encounters where you expect alot of mechanical damage (like after your shield goes dry) and have full or close to full health you can take the morphine drug to bring it up to 85%. But watch the side effects with it. With aegis it will bring you to 95%. A full sniper critical hit will only scratch you at this point.

One downside of using drugs with this build is that it always costs you 10 AP vs 2 AP if you were wearing a doctor's pouch, which is better than the lifting belt but as a sledghammer fighter you need the belt. Pure sledgehammer builds benefit more from the mushroom brew then anybody else. You don't only get the 10% damage resistance but also +1 STR and the -2 DEX malus won't hurt you at all because you don't rely on DEX and you couldn't care less about PSI. In the recent patch food duration was increased but mushroom brew still lasts quite a bit shorter so make sure to hoard on it. You can buy it from the barkeeper in Rail Crossing but it's also found in food loot now and then.

Thanks to infused siphoner leather tabbis (seriously these are so OP) and Thick Skull, coil spiders are no threat as they no longer can stun or immobilize you.

For trap detection you don't have to rely on traps skill: http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Traps
A good pair of motion detection goggles will boost your natural detection (which scales with your level) enough to detect not all, but still most common traps.

Just because you wear metal armor it doesn't mean you have to walk around with 95% armor penalty. Super steel armor with a blade or two on it will be good enough to keep close to half of your stealth skill and still qualify for Juggernaut.
As you surely know, there are other means to bump your stealth besides putting points in it: Cloaking device, black balaclava and if really needed you can switch to ninja tabbis occasionally. Unlike a sniper you don't need high stealth for damage, you only need enough to get into melee range.

Don't plan to use a secondary weapon if that means for you to alter the build by wasting stat or skill points into something you won't use later anyway. This is how I like to start with a sledgehammer build:
After doing the initial quests in SGS I go straight to Junkyard and buy a lifting belt which brings your 25 AP sledgehammer swings down to 20 AP so you can hit with two regular hits plus one with Pummel. If you have tabbis at this point use a serrated (shock) knife for 11 AP per swing. That way you can always hit 2 times with the hammer (2x19 AP) and once with the knife. If you don't have the tabbis simply leave your second slot empty and use fists fot 10 AP.
If you can afford it either buy or craft a tactical vest with an armor plate in it. It will be superior to metal armor at this point and makes more sense for the upcomming encounters in GMS compound. You're likely to be immune against most bullet hits, even from those AR bandits in the 3rd level caves and because your armor penalty is above 50 you can plan to take Juggernaut for extra hitpoints at level 4.
Later when you go back to Junkyard to get the drill parts you can focus on making a proper metal armor.

Looking at my chart above I think it would be better to rearrange some other feats as well and make a focus on super steel sledgehammer stuns (15% chance). Critical hits are mostly for Bone Breaker so Heavyweight can be swapped with Opportunist:



This brought me to an idea about a new build: A critical hits/damage focused PSI Sledgehammer build.
The basic idea is to get as high as possible critical hit chance and damage while still being mobile and hard to kill. Being able to cast Force Field in order to bottleneck/ cut off enemies is immensely valuable as well. I took all the critical hits/damage feats including Weaponsmith but unfortunatelly Survival Instincts became unavailable because of 7 CON. To bring it back to 9 would cost 2 STR which is not worth losing. 1 point in STR had to go anyway to bring INT to 6 which is needed for Weaponsmith and more imprtantly Premeditation. It's used for 0 AP stuns with Electrokinesis which, thanks to Psychostatic Electricity debuff, gives you +15% critical chance against the main Electrokinesis target (providing there is one other target for the bolts to jump).

So to sum it up:
Basic critical chance is: 5 from the Sledgehammer + 5 from Weaponsmith + 7 From recklessness + 1 from DEX = 18% - That's nearly 1 critical in 5 hits. When you use Eletrokinesis and have 2 near targets it climbs up to 33% (initial hit + 4 jumps = 3 hits against the first target = 5*3 = 15%) - That makes on average 1 of 3 hits a critical. This is very good already. If you take the focus stim drug (second best drug in the game) it will jump by another 15% making a total of 48% chance to hit critically. That's almost every other hit.  Now we're talking. Thanks to Cheap Shots, Heavyweight and Critical Power a tungsten steel sledgehammer will do about 425% (!) critical damage. That might be even more damage then snipe. Downside of this build is that the hitpoints are considerably lower thanks to 7 vs 9 CON and PSI so Superslam falls out, especially on hard difficulty but I'm convinced that insane critical chance and damage can make up for it. Skillwise you don't have to invest alot into Psychokinesis and thanks to 6 int you need less for crafting. Just get enough so you can qualify for Telekinetic Imprint which is awesome to have.



In any case of a pure sledgehammer build always use a TiChrome sledgehammer for your second slot. It has 3 less base AP cost. With the belt + tabbis it will get down to 16 and when you reach maximum Taste for Blood stacks it will get further down to 14 AP. At that point when you pop in an adrenaline shot you will be able to swing it for 5 times within the 70 AP pool - pretty sweet. In case of the PSI build, when you get the fatigue penalty just cast Force Field and maybe the Imprint to block the enemies and try to get a distance. Till they catch up with you fatigue will be over in most cases. The same applies to situations where the enemy uses adrenaline shot but you're unlikely to kill or stun him in one round. Cut him off with the field and let him cool off to fatigue.  :P

Manator

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 07:07:24 am »
Hey, Wildan, thank you so much for such thoughtful and detailed explanation. Some really nice tips and  ideas you have there. I will definitely try a no-psi build, because already played one, but your second build also looks very interesting :)

robling

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 11:48:16 pm »
Your advice on this was seriously helpful, Wildan.  Thanks a ton, man.

I just hit level 20 with your more defensive build from your first post and the game has been very enjoyable with it.  Tanky builds are my cup of tea in most games and this one was excellent.

I intend to try your psibuild as well on my second run and then will head to hard mode.

Would you suggest the defensive build from your first post over the psibuild from the second (or either of your second builds, really) for hardmode?  The concept of being a tank is very appealing and from what I gather about hardmode would be very beneficial.

Eldakar

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 07:11:13 am »
Would that hammer build be good?

10++++++/7/6/5/3/3/6

1.Recklessness
1.Sprint
2.Pummel
4.Quick tinkering
6.Cheap shots
8.Weaponsmith
10.Bone breaker
12.Taste of blood
14.Critical power
16.Expose weakness
18.Heavyweight
20.Opportunist
22.Conditioning
24.Vile weaponry



Tactic would be to use bear trap and lure enemies into tight corridor. Only problem with it, after two turns when sprint wears of you will be using action points to move because of 95% armor penality. But  because you wont be spending any points into stealth, evasion or dodge there will be lot of points for chemistry and biology.


« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 07:52:00 pm by Eldakar »

MirddinEmris

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 08:43:57 am »
I'm not sure that Bone Breaker is really good for Sledgehammer. Unlike Taste For Blood which gives you damage buff (so it stays with you even when you kill an opponent), Bone Breaker gives debuff to an opponent and it needs a critical hit to activate. Crit from hammer will kill most of you opponents anyway, so it's a bit of a "win more" ability for this build. Works great for str+dex unarmed build though.

Vile Weaponry has same problems - since you rely on high damage and small amount of hits, you don't benefit that much from such debuffs.

P.S. Though it may be less true for DC, never played hammer build that far.

Eldakar

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 11:09:07 am »
Keep in mind that vile weaponry kicks in from bear traps, serrated blades from armor which you will be using. So once monster gets into trap and get hit once with weapon it will have 3 stacks already. And i dont see any replacement for bone breaker. Mayby guard.

MirddinEmris

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 11:21:53 am »
Armor Sloping is a good choice. You don't need 95% armor penalty to get good criticals, at this point mobility is more important.

MirddinEmris

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2016, 11:24:30 am »
Pure sledgehammer builds benefit more from the mushroom brew then anybody else.

So, you are saying that a good sledgehammer user is always hammered?

*ba dum tss*

Eldakar

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Re: Sledgehammer build
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 05:33:06 pm »
Armor Sloping is a good choice. You don't need 95% armor penalty to get good criticals, at this point mobility is more important.

Whole idea behind this build is to crit as hard as possible. At 270 melee skill your hammer will get 290% dmg bonus and tungsten steel hammer will have 425% multi and 18% crit chance. So 28-50 x 290% =81-145 x 425 =344-616. And thats just from 55 quality tungsten steel and without other feats that give 155%. With higher quality steel i guess dmg will go up to above 1k, which means with 3 hits with adrenaline dmg will be around 2-4k per turn. Thats really good.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 07:55:50 pm by Eldakar »