Are gladiator fights supposed to be min-maxed?

[player1]

Are gladiator fights supposed to be min-maxed?

Due to offense being so much superior to defense, in the game's rules:

1) Player needs to know everything about enemy in advance
2) Player needs to re-roll until winning initiative, otherwise he is roasted
3) Player needs to kill enemy as quickly as possible, otherwise it is roasted by powerful attacks or crowd control effects

For example, my fight with Pulverizer.
Only way to get him killed was to succeed getting initiative, doing Aimed Shot sniper attack, injuring him enough to get hypo and to not get in close enough in melee range. Then me throwing flashbang, getting into stealth and then doing "Snipe" attack from the stealth from far away.

.

Essentially, player weapon needs to be power of save and reload, for precongnition and to get most possible good outcome.

[nbilling]

I think basically some of the gladiators are glass cannons, so if the player is also a glass cannon then whoever gets initiative wins. I personally didn't find losing initiative against Pulverizer a big deal, but against Carnifex it's very easy to die on the first turn.

[Zetor]

Some builds fare better than others. My stealth crossbow trapper build did very well as long as I didn't die on the first turn, because Quick Tinkering a bear trap in the way of the enemy either completely disables them (if they're melee) or allows you to hit them without being hit yourself (if they're ranged). Pure psi builds should also do quite well due to the huge amount of disables they have at their disposal.

Be sure to turn your shield on before talking to the fight promoter, btw! It does drain a bit during the intro, but should keep you alive on turn 1 at least.

e: also, if you're a tailor, get infused siphoner boots or tabi, that will make you immune to immobilization. You can also use the Escape Artist feat if you have it, though I think it's not worth a feat slot.

[player1]

OK, next 3 fights after Pulverizer were much easier.

Crossbow guy gladiator was kinda fair fight. He was killed with high force with some anti-poison management. Just doing right stuff at your turn is enough to get him killed without use of any cheese.

And Master Exploder got shot with single Aimed Shot hit of the sniper, after me losing initiative (got prepared wearing anti-thermic vest).

Chemical Agent, similar to Master Exploder, killed with single Aimed Shot and his dogs with one SMG burst each (got prepared with acid protected leather).

I guess Pulverizer was made more challenging on purpose as a "hard wall" against players going into gladiator fights at too low level.

[omphaloskepsis]

I think it depends on your build and level.  For a level 15 pure psi-caster with minor minmaxing and wearing psi-beetle shell tactical armor (80 - 90 components quality), everything was a breeze until the last fight against Carnifex.  I think I lost every initiative roll, but I never had to reload or plan ahead.

Carnifex kicked my ass, then I quickly and lazily crafted riot armor and a low-low shield emitter, and then he kicked my ass again, but slower.  I think Carnifex probably requires serious planning ahead for most builds.  Also, I didn't turn my shield on for most of the battles, though it would help, and is necessary for the Carny fight.

Anyway, my suggestions would be to wait until level 15 or so, and like Zetor said, turn your shield on before the fight if you're having trouble.   And if you walk outside I think Gary (in the robe) will give you advice for all of the fights, so that might cover your first complaint.  And Carnifex might be better to save until level 20.

[player1]

Surgeon got killed with 2 bursts also.

Why was only Pulverizer challenge up to this point?

Anyway, my gladiator got named Apperition. Probably due to stealth tactics I used to take out Pulverizer.

[nbilling]

It's just RNG. They are all rather simple fights until Stygian Exorcist, then Carnifex is the hard one.

[player1]

Got Stygian guy with single sniper Aimed Shot. From the 2nd try.

First attempt when he got initiative, I was able to get him killed with SMG up close, but not survive remaining shadows.


I guess Sniper/SMG build is really good "glass cannon" against gladiators, with exception of Pulverizer.


And Carnifex... he is pretty much Pulverizer on steroids. Not beatable with my 14th level character, for now.

[newageofpower]

vs Carnifex, psi-focused builds should have Locus of Control - it's so ridiculously good. Going high WILL lets you grab premeditation, which is also absurd.

Make some survivable armor (riot gear is great), locus out of his CC, then CC & kill him.

[Scuka]

I got through all the gladiators except the Carnifex pretty easily using my stealth/crossbow/traps build. I didn't minmax anything, it's my first playthrough and I'm not using anyone's build guide so I'd guess my build is far from optimal.
I mostly used knee shot, aimed shot, uncanny dodge and special crossbow bolts.

I have to say though, I don't like how the Arena was designed. I'd much rather it be something similar to how it's done in STALkER, i.e. the combatants aren't in contact from the start of the match, but are separated on opposite sides of a large arena, and both choose how they're gonna engage the enemy. IMO something like that would allow different builds to play to their strengths, rather than it being just a straight up brawl.