Author Topic: I hate you all [major spoilers]  (Read 43346 times)

Hal900x

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I hate you all [major spoilers]
« on: May 03, 2016, 10:01:15 am »
Just finished the game. It's definitely in my top 10 ever. But...the ending! I gather there are many different paths than the one I took, but one thing drives me absolutely insane: the mystery. I never learned a damn thing. The whole game, I was waiting to find out what that cube was, who the "shadow people" were, what Rahm-Umbra and Tanner really were. And no, not one thing was explained. The Faceless wouldn't tell me, Rahm wouldn't tell me, Eidan wouldn't tell me, the GAME wouldn't tell me. Dafuq? I could swear I read someone saying they ending with the cube, and some kind of medallion? Two artifacts, that you can actually use? Well if so, I missed it all completely. If I can go back to an earlier save, and I have many, I think before I start another playthrough I really must know even a little about what this was all really about, if it is even possible.

That was a brutal, brutal cliffhanger. You better have the sequel ready next month.

reinhark

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2016, 12:31:52 pm »
before I discuss the entire understanding of my lore, can you tell me what you mean by "shadow people"?
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Hal900x

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2016, 06:19:34 pm »
before I discuss the entire understanding of my lore, can you tell me what you mean by "shadow people"?

It is how Tchort refers to Six/Rahm-Umbra/Tanner's people.

And I thought of yet another NPC who knows deep dark secrets and won't spill: EZRA! Dammit, the whole game does this.

reinhark

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2016, 07:48:22 pm »
Now that I have my answer, I will talk about everything I know.
Each segment will be laid down chronologically, and will accompany evidences first followed by my opinion.
Let's begin.
Obviously everything below will be HUGE spoiler for the story, if not ALL of the spoilers.

Story of the alien race - to be more specific, Godmen.
(this is not that important, but oh well)

Evidences:
Refer to all three crystal pillars, monolith, secret society mainframe, secret society leader, Dude.

Interpretation:
So they are psionic, powerful and shut-in aliens who wields otherworldly technology like teleport or interplanetary weapon of mass destruction. They have track record of annihilating another alien race known as Behemoths, who were also space faring.
They are also known to hate space, for some reason. Therefore - shut-in within their own planet.

Unfortunately they had some... chronic disease or something shared by their entire race/infected their entire race. When this desease struck, they probably went into hibernation using their stasis technology to delay their demise/sleep until disease is somehow cured.

In this last moment, some of those Godmen were chosen to travel to space for unknown mission. They were fitted with new mechanical body and sent off.
So far all this isn't important. Nothing that has to do with human race nor development of Underrail so far. As far as we know they could've sent outer space to buy supplies for recovery-celebration party that takes in the future.

Let's get to fun parts... They saw something interesting on(or more likely, under) Earth, came down, and somehow wracked the ship. There are only 3 survivors.
This ship, or possibly a part of the ship has been salvaged by certain organization, and it is likely that more alien items were scattered across larger area.


History of the Underrail(Or rather, Biocorp, since they controlled everything back few hundred years back then)

Evidences:
Apartment complexes mails, Actions of some ex-biocorp scientists, ex-biocorp Apex technocrat and ex-biocorp lackey of unknown rank, faceless dialogue, Six's dialogue.

Interpretation:
What happened prior to Biocorp doesn't concern me personally. All known recorded history begins when Biocorp controlled everything and the surface abandoned. Anyone or anything could've caused "uninhabitable surface problem" but it really doesn't matter to the story. So let's start with the part it does matter. Hollowed Earth Research Complex - also known as Deep Caverns.

Hollowed Earth Research Complex was built for research of top secret technologies of Biocorps... or so it says.
I personally think that it isn't true at all. How about this: Hollowed Earth Research Complex's purpose was to research alien technologies and alien genetics.
example:
Some mails from the apartment mentions gathering of xeno-artifact - like those mysterious pillar.
Unexplained presence of alien monolith within the ex-biocorp university. Note that Tchortist didn't know about its existence.
Stasis tanks.
Lastly, incredibly large amount of Mutagens.

Strange, isn't it? Faceless says that they were born within mutagen tanks.
And yet Dude refer to Faceless as "Half god, Half man, Half rock", and Rahm-Umbra says that Faceless is related to himself as well.
Only logical conclusion is that Biocorp somehow obtained Godmen's genetics(probably from ship wreckage mentioned above) and designed mutagens based on it to elevate humanity to new height.
It is unsure if they have used Mutagen, but biocorp scientists' work bore fruit and some of them obtained immortality + psionic abilities.

Biocorp was successful in creating in prototype of new human - the faceless. But then they revolted and Hollowed earth fell. It is not known if it was plotted by remaining Godmen or accident, but it is done. Most of the research - if not all - stored in there were lost. It is possible that some trace of it remains in the northern underrail.
Of course, there is an exception. There was a group of people who had access to all those wondrous, top tier Biocorp technology - Faceless. They probably had access to them after the revolt... and it brought them success in southern underrail.

And stuff happens - Tchort who was born during this revolt. Deep caverns fell to ruin.

Certain Biocorp employee continues to experiment... and Junkyard happens.
Then Biocorp fells.
Then cube gets stolen somehow.

Biocorp employees gets scattered across Underrail - some easily over hundreds of years old - and Godmen survivors still scheme for their mission even to this day.

Note that Godmen all seem to attract large human followers for their greater schemes and prefer to use minions over direct action. Bearing that in mind, it is easier to see where the last one may have went...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 08:43:02 pm by reinhark »
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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 08:31:02 pm »
before I discuss the entire understanding of my lore, can you tell me what you mean by "shadow people"?

It is how Tchort refers to Six/Rahm-Umbra/Tanner's people.

Tchort referred to Six specifically. You know, Rahm-Umbra. Shadow. He called the people "High Ones".

To think that I never bothered to look up "Rahm" and discover that it was a real word, knowing that Umbra is.
Turns out he's the high shadow!

abscisin

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2016, 09:28:51 pm »
Oooh, I so don't have time for this, but I want to join in, at least for a bit.

Story of the alien race - to be more specific, Godmen.

You are taking all of this very literally, despite Six outright warning you not to do so. I don't think he would have objected to the titles Godman or High One if it was just a simple matter of bad translation.

But if we don't take it literally we don't have much to talk about, so let's do it anyway.

I'm not sure you got the chronology of it right, though. Not that I'm sure my version is any better.
The way I interpreted it, the illness is the earliest event in the timeline. The inhabitants of the moon, whoever they were, turned to the dead Godhead. The Godhead, in turn, unleashed the beast on them, the Leviathan.

They won the war by turning to technology and conquering space, and with the end of the Eon of the Beast, the reign of the Godmen started. The Godhead was replaced by the Machine God.

At this point however I am not sure what lead to their downfall and the eventual journey of the Chosen. It seems they had some kind of energy crisis, their stars provided them with plenty, yet not enough. Is the invisible star the sphere orbits the same Sun from the previous visions? Where is this galaxy anyway?

History of the Underrail(Or rather, Biocorp, since they controlled everything back few hundred years back then)

I'd like to add a few things to this.

First, it is unknown how humans developed psi potential. If even the head of Biocorp's genetic research is clueless about how such thing could have been designed, it is possible Biocorp had nothing to do with it. In that case there might be a third party that started tampering with human genetics long before Biocorp schenanigans. That would have some fun implications.

Second, the Junkyard incident. When exactly did it happen?
Thanks to Wyatt, we know for sure it was over 100 years ago. We also know the Hollow Earth incident started around 189 years and 75 days ago, and after it escalated Old Biocorp was done for. And finally, we know that there was no Biocorp for at least 100 years.
Wyatt identified Wight and Vovin as possible Biocorp scientists. The timing would be too soon for it to be New Biocorp, so it had to happen when Old Biocorp was still around, so at least around ~189 years ago. So was it one of the last things the two technocrats have done before pulling a disappearing act, or did it happen before Hollow Earth as part of Project Ascendance?

And last, what is the symbiont?

To think that I never bothered to look up "Rahm" and discover that it was a real word, knowing that Umbra is.
Turns out he's the high shadow!

Super secret insider info incoming, the three Godmen are called Rahm-Umbra, Sahne-Lumen, and Obers-Nihilum.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:16:22 pm by abscisin »

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2016, 11:18:57 pm »
Super secret insider info incoming, the three Godmen are called Rahm-Umbra, Sahne-Lumen, and Obers-Nihilum.

A so an Quark :P .
But the problem is, indeed, it zlots at Vlurxtrznbnaxl.

abscisin

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2016, 11:46:31 pm »
A so an Quark :P .

 :D
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reinhark

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 03:41:39 am »
And last, what is the symbiont?
"symbiont" - biological term -  'two organisms that live in symbiosis with one another.'

Even we have one in each of us, so this is good example.
Our cells all contain mitochondria - presumably descent of ancient bacteria that is absolutely vital for us to live.
Its function is to convert suger product into energy we can use, and has to rely on us for food it receives.
It still has its own DNA and all, so it can be considered as "symbiont".

This is just an example, and there can be another in the world of Underrail.
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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 06:30:12 am »
Regarding the discussion on psi-potential in humans:

I'm a bit confused here, so feel free to correct me if I post something factually incorrect, which I am certain I will at some point. We have humans, psi-beetles, psimorphs in the shape of rock larva and DC mushrooms, and of course we also have Tchort. I can't remember if the game reveals or hints at whether or not rock larva are in fact an extension of Tchort, or if they and similar psimorphs existed before it. In either case there seem to be two distinct types of psionic creatures in Underrail, those who are explained as being creatures that almost have psionics as some underlying life-force that shapes their very physical form (can't remember Ezra's exact dialogue atm) such as psimorphs and Tchort, and creatures who have psionic potential, but are otherwise just regular creatures (humans, Azuridae, probably some more I can't remember).

Are both types of psionic potential natural? Furthermore is psionic potential something that was always latent and uncovered, or is it new to humans and other creatures alltogether? The game pretty strongly suggests that the monoliths are responsible for it, whether by revealing it or creating it. 2001: A Space Oddyssey, anyone?

Unrelated question: Does anyone have or care to write up an overview of whom from Caerus residential we meet or hear about outside of DC? I seem to recall that someone suggested that Ezra was Anton Matveev, though I'm not sure why him in particular, after re-reading the logs.

abscisin

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 09:06:02 am »
This is just an example, and there can be another in the world of Underrail.

This is what I'm wondering. But in general I just wanted to bring up the conversation with Wit.
"The architects were afraid of their creations... deep in the genome... look... the latent self-destructive code..."
Good stuff.

I seem to recall that someone suggested that Ezra was Anton Matveev, though I'm not sure why him in particular, after re-reading the logs.

Someone didn't hack the Oculus terminal. Let me help you with that.



I can't even imagine what it must be like to go to DC without already knowing all this. By the time I entered the elevator I was beyond excited to finally see the infamous Hollow Earth, and every single location, email, conversation, just made my hype even stronger. When IRIS mentioned the two visiting apex technocrats, confirming they had hand in this as well, I was like "HA! I KNEW IT!".

Yes, I love Deep Caverns.

player1

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 09:20:52 am »
The chronology of the visions - and the whole big picture of the background plot - seems very vague, probably intentionally so. You could say there's some kind of timelapse vertigo going on.

I can already see next game being called "Underrail 2: Timelapse Vertigo" :D

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 09:59:53 am »
I seem to recall that someone suggested that Ezra was Anton Matveev, though I'm not sure why him in particular, after re-reading the logs.

Someone didn't hack the Oculus terminal. Let me help you with that.

Note to self: Hack stuff. Thanks, though!

Edit: Tried it now and I remembered that I had in fact already done it, just that I didn't understand what they who they were hinting at. Vovin, though?
Quinton? That one doesn't seem as obvious to me.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 10:27:07 am by Megaost »

abscisin

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 12:21:18 am »
Vovin, though?
Quinton? That one doesn't seem as obvious to me.

Quinton? Nah, I very much doubt it. I mean, he is probably Biocorp like many at SGS, but most likely just an insignificant New Biocorp scientist.
Vovin is probably one of those characters that have/had an important role, and while it's good to know about them, we do not actually meet them in the(/this) game. Like General Melek.

Here I posted his bio mainly because it helps with the Ezra/Anton connection. Every time you get a new piece of info about him you also get something that confirms one of the previous ones, until it becomes impossible to misinterpret the situation.

From Wyatt you learn the two men who came to him more than 100 years ago were probably Biocorp, one being bald, pale, with a breathing mask and one mechanical eye (really, this one everyone gets instantly), the other skinny with his face burnt. Thought control was used to keep the mutagen canisters secret.

From the Beast quest you learn that Ezra knows about psimorphs (confirming Biocorp connection, making his Depot A involvement even more likely).

From Oculus you learn that Anton Matveev was an apex, infamous for unconsented human experiments (Depot A), hideous self-experimentation (mechanical eye, signs of previously undergoing mutation - the pupil of his real eye being dilated, a trademark mutie/mutant trait), worked on Phenotype Dynamics (mutagen research) and also on psimorphs, and of course was a thought controller.
And you also learn that there was this other guy, Kirill Gavrilyuk, who was also an apex, and probably a metathermics user (burnt face), but no mention of a direct link to Anton aside from some joint projects.

And then DC confirms that yes, these two indeed used to hang out and cause misery together (more or less confirming that it was Vovin with Ezra at Depot A), mentions that Anton is "frigid as a corpse" just in case you still had any doubts left, and then you learn that psimorphs were created by Parkinson at Hollow Earth, which pretty much seals it. But then DC also adds a whole new layer to the story with Slavkovic and his human experiments, although for now this is left unresolved as we don't even know what happened to him in the end, only that despite him considering it he did not become one of the Tithonus subjects.

So yeah, the whole thing is built up very nicely throughout the game.


Are both types of psionic potential natural? Furthermore is psionic potential something that was always latent and uncovered, or is it new to humans and other creatures alltogether?

It's probably better if I just quote this part instead of paraphrasing. Comes so early in the game that it's pretty easy to forget, and then skip on later playthroughs:

"It's a relatively rare inheritable complex genetic trait that triggers development of certain, otherwise latent components in the brain."

"No one is really sure. Research indicates that it's a relatively recent genetic mutation, but it sure could not have been a random one. So many things about it are just too complex and convenient to be anything but artificially designed. There are problems with this theory, though. Former Biocorp's head of genetic research, Hal Roche, outlines these problems best in his thesis. I won't bore you with details but the essence of the problem is that, with the technology that we currently have at our disposal, creating, testing and integrating such complex genetic structures is simply not possible without a colossal amount of trial and error work. So much trial and error work, Roche argued, that even if you combined all the genetic processors in the world in his time and let them work on the subject for the entire time of their existence, they would still be extremely unlikely to produce these results."

Make of this what you will.
I agree it's possible that it was an effect of the monoliths, although nothing suggests that the non-psi HE staff that interacted with and harvested the pillars developed any kind of psi abilities, with the exception of Wasi Abdul, maybe.
Also remember that Biocorp had no knowledge of the monoliths/pillars, and even Hollow Earth existed for many years before they discovered them. For example psimorphs were created before the discovery, but using shards on them later had many beneficial effects on their development.
It would probably help if we knew whether the monoliths are exclusive to the south, or present in all Underrail.

Quote from: Styg
While there is a greater, sort of background plot that concerns the nature of time, the game is largely about the Underrail itself - its inhabitants, politics, strife, dangers, mysteries, as well as the player's place within all this.

Well, that was a wise decision. I have no idea where the nature of time comes into the picture, aside from the vague and confusing chronology of the visions you already mentioned, the possible time traveling or clairvoyance of Six (and for all his predictions he failed to predict that the second the Faceless refused to give me more information in exchange for the Cube I'd hit "Export Character" with it still in my inventory. Take that, Six.). Well, and that one sign on the Cube that stands for space-time curvature/event horizon/etc. (the M/W looking thing, perhaps?).

But hey, I can't wait to find out.

Unrelated question.
Some bots have True Sight, makes sense. Both Godmen have it too, sure. And the Eos psionic projections too, which is also understandable.
But Azif? From what I remember he is the only human (?) NPC in the game with True Sight. I wonder why.

Even more unrelated, but if anyone knows what the abbreviations SAI, SC, and NRS stand for in the game, I would really appreciate the information.

player1

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Re: I hate you all [major spoilers]
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 12:26:32 am »
The chronology of the visions - and the whole big picture of the background plot - seems very vague, probably intentionally so. You could say there's some kind of timelapse vertigo going on.

I can already see next game being called "Underrail 2: Timelapse Vertigo" :D

But the first game already was called Timelapse Vertigo... :P

"Was", as past tense.

With all plot elements that would explain the origin of the game setting not being part of the game (and left as mystery), it made sense to rename the game to Underrail, since it better explains the game as is.

But, if those elements will be tackled in the future sequel, then original title could return, at least as subtitle.  8)