Observation: vile weapons is a actually *really* good

[hayaku]

Hello everyone...

Let me first start by stating that this game, Underrail, is probably the best game I have played in the last 5 years. All the best aspects and themes of Fallout 2 updated for contemporary UI standards without loosing that retro isometric feel. Very happy!!

I'm playing a crossbow/traps/stealth character and currently hovering around level 10, doing quests in camp Hathor. On a random save game at level up I tried experimenting with various different feats, just for fun, and found myself extremely surprised: Vile Weaponry was by far the best, beating Ambush, Sharpshooter and even Hypertoxicity for sheer combat value. I had originally started playing on this experimental save to work out which of those three I would pick.

My rationale:

Where most debuffs in this game work in an additive way, vile weaponry actually has a distinctly non-linear aspect to it, in the sense that the gradually improving damage bonus pays two dividends. Since the % damage increase comes from "all sources" and since bleeding wounds are calculated based on actual damage done from first strike, this feat actually stacks on top of itself, initially giving a bonus to the causative bleeding wound and then a second time to the actually bleeding.

By my calculations, assuming one was to consistently use serrated bolts at a target... Work out very nicely: Let's assume a 15 damage constant for a serrated bolt...

(Without feat)

Damage = 15 + (3 x 5) = 30

And so on for as many arrows as you shoot...

Now, with the feat...


Arrow 1: Damage = 15 + (3 x 5 x 1.1) = 31.5 ..... assuming no further shots

Arrow 2: Damage = 16.5 + (3 x 5.5 x 1.2) = 36.3

Arrow 3: Damage = 18 + (3 x 6 x 1.3) = 41.4

Arrow 4: Damage = 19.5 + (3 x 6.5 x 1.3) 44.85

...

So even in that sense there is almost a 50% damage increase after the third arrow, once you factor in how bleeding wounds start to syngergise with themselves.

When taking into account an initial bleeding wound presumably caused by a carefully placed beer trap, and the "special tactics" feat which would allow you to lay down 3 serrated arrows within a single turn, you can actually jump right up to this +50% damage increase within the first round of combat, doing enormous damage because now there are 4 cumulative bleeding wounds and one stack of ongoing mechanical damage, all getting +30% too.

It looks small but it stacks up quite significantly, and again, much to my surprise: getting through the burrower section was made easiest not by choosing sharpshooter or ambush or even snipe, but by picking this feat. I had to sit down with a calculator and work this all out simply because I did not believe it myself, and wanted to get to the bottom of why this average looking feat was making life so simple in a practical play through.

And of course, there is also the fact that healing will also be reduced by 75% after the kind of ambush I described, getting to 3 stacks of infected wounds with 4 bleeding wounds within the first round. Which in many ways is just icing on the cake!!

Thoughts and feelings?

[Wildan]

Serrated bolts work well against soft opponents but so anything does. Once you do Foundry Mines #1 problem of crossbows will become quickly obvious: Mechanical damage resistance.
When you include high % based resistance into calculation, whatever additional damage you get from bleeding and Vile Weaponry will be pretty much irrelevant.

Against tough skinned and heavily armored foes you need a reliable way to bypass their armor. With a proper build and equipment, Snipe and Aimed Shot are still very good because of large damage spikes and in any case they will deal way more damage vs Vile Weaponry serrated bolts. Against light/medium armored enemies we're talking here instakill vs halfway injured, bleeding things (not everything can bleed btw).

Snipe only works in the initial turn, best followed by Aimed Shot and one disabling special bolt. For the next turn it pays off to have Blitz feat and instead of a 25 AP crossbow use a 17 AP pneumatic Cyclone to shoot 4 elemental or poison bolts for 68 AP or 5 bolts for 85 AP if you want to use adrenaline shot drug which will allow you to spam even more special bolts in the next two turns if really needed.

This is the beauty of crossbows in Underrail. You have more diverse tactical possibilities than with any other weapon: You can stun/incap with shock/tranqualizing bolts, in darkness use incendiary bolts to open up for Ambush or bypass armor with feat-buffed acid/poison over time.

Once you get to pick Deadly Snares, together with Elemental Bolts you will never ever want to waste your precious free critical hits against trapped enemies with puny serrated bolts, but always use shock/incendiary/acid because elemental damage itself hits critically as well. Huge, huge difference against high-armor pests. Only very few things are immune to criticals.

Lold hard @ "carefully placed beer trap". We want to make sure not to spill anything.

[hayaku]

Aaaaah, see I actually thought about this:

Bleeding wounds deal the exact amount of damage over the following 3 turns.... Even if that strike was a critical, and subject to other damage buffs. You mention "deadly snares" and "critical power", but infected wounds caused by vile weaponry synergises really effectively into these two.

Take a standard bolt, again say dealing 20 damage against an incapacitated target...


Standard: Damage = 20

Fully maxed critical = (1.25 x 4.62 x 20) = 115
...this assumes 'opportunist' and 'sharpshooter' on a modified Zephyr. However any LOS abuse will cause character to loose focus, and damage will drop to 97.

Now, applying the same single shot to an incapacitated target, by initiating combat by applying two bleeding wounds with serrated bolts, then allowing the bear trap (beer trap ) to create the third...


Fully maxed critical = (1.3 x 1.25 x 4.62 x 20) = 149 + 149 over 3 turns
Or if focus is not achieved, 125 + 125 over 3 turns


So not only is the damage much higher on the initial hit, it deals effectively double the damage with patience. Note that it does not matter how 'hard' the target is, and how much they resist the initial 2 serrated bolts, so long as *some* damage is achieved. They are simply preparatory. All the damage gets done after they walk into the trap.

This has become my favoured strategy... Surprising tough enemies with a few serrated bolts, running off to lure them into a trap, then popping out and finishing them off when I hear the trap activate.

I have tried similar tactics using poison traps, hyper toxicity and preparing the enemy with cave ear poison bolts (these two synergising to deliver 3x bio damage) and sadly still not as good as bleeding wounds!!

Just food for thought.

[hayaku]

Interesting... I suppose this does change things somewhat?

For now, serrated bolts are certainly my best friend. I will let you know if that comes back to bite me at any point