Author Topic: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build  (Read 27666 times)

Ramen_os

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Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« on: November 07, 2016, 06:46:24 pm »
Hi,

I am thinking to a second playthrough with a totally different character than my current one.

Playing a strong melee fighter who could hack and unlock everything would be good.

Is that build http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGgzGqgTKCcIEDZHjSqJQEZuc7jnliYSQcfuSWCACwgDsIAHCNtO7dm9A2JyTMWnOCyA effective until the end of the game according to your experience?

Thank you

PS: I know I will not find boxing gloves before mid game so I guess I will play with regular gloves first

destroyor

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2016, 02:27:55 am »
Couple points:
- boxing gloves is a pretty weak weapon and you should equip it in the offhand and switch to it before you end your turn for the 15% dodge bonus. Your primary weapon should be the claw (early game) and a crafted Pneumatic Bladed Infused Ancient Rathound Leather Gloves (late game).
- you are missing cheap shots (50% extra crit damage, 15% chance to incapacitate the target) and critical power (combine with cheap shots you now get 125% extra crit damage)
- highest hacking check is 135 and highest lockpicking check is 130. Jackknife provide +7 lockpicking and huxkey provide +15 to hacking & lockpicking.
- you must max your primary offensive skill every level, no exception.
- stealth, imho, is essential to a brawler/psi monk.

This is my dex (leather combat gloves) brawler build I used to finished a hard game. This is my strongest underrail char: not a glass cannon, attacking 10 times(min)/14 times(max) per turn @74% crit chance (13% base + 16% infused rathound leather armor + 15% focus stim + 30% survival instinct) w/ 225% crit damage bonus . Finally there's what I call beast mode (on every single drug in the game) = 1k+ raw damage per pneumatic strike or 3k+ raw damage per critical pneumatic strike.

Wildan posted a str psi-monk build that could possibly look something like this. You'll have to sacrifice points from crafting to hacking + lockpicking.

Hopefully some of my rambling would be of help.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 02:29:50 am by destroyor »

Ramen_os

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2016, 01:54:27 pm »
Couple points:
- boxing gloves is a pretty weak weapon and you should equip it in the offhand and switch to it before you end your turn for the 15% dodge bonus. Your primary weapon should be the claw (early game) and a crafted Pneumatic Bladed Infused Ancient Rathound Leather Gloves (late game).
- you are missing cheap shots (50% extra crit damage, 15% chance to incapacitate the target) and critical power (combine with cheap shots you now get 125% extra crit damage)
- highest hacking check is 135 and highest lockpicking check is 130. Jackknife provide +7 lockpicking and huxkey provide +15 to hacking & lockpicking.
- you must max your primary offensive skill every level, no exception.
- stealth, imho, is essential to a brawler/psi monk.

This is my dex (leather combat gloves) brawler build I used to finished a hard game. This is my strongest underrail char: not a glass cannon, attacking 10 times(min)/14 times(max) per turn @74% crit chance (13% base + 16% infused rathound leather armor + 15% focus stim + 30% survival instinct) w/ 225% crit damage bonus . Finally there's what I call beast mode (on every single drug in the game) = 1k+ raw damage per pneumatic strike or 3k+ raw damage per critical pneumatic strike.

Wildan posted a str psi-monk build that could possibly look something like this. You'll have to sacrifice points from crafting to hacking + lockpicking.

Hopefully some of my rambling would be of help.

Got it. I could focus on claws.

Is that ok to have only 3 in strength? I though strength was important for melee attacks too (or maybe it's a myth) :)

With your build, you can't lock and hack, isn't it? I would like to open easily boxes and lockers.

And if I understand, doing a melee build without stealth and without a great dodge and evasion is not a good idea? I could be killed easily on Deep Cavern with that?

Again, sorry for all of these questions and thanks in advance for your time.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 06:34:06 pm by ramenos »

destroyor

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 01:16:40 am »
It's ok to have only 3 in strength for melee.

There are two approaches to melee - dex or str. The game will use str or dex (whichever is higher) to calculate your effective melee skill.

Str melee build will get bonus str damage - for example you will get 80% bonus str damage with a 15 str char using Power Fist.

Dex melee build will not get any bonus str damage, but gain extra attack due to the reduced AP cost. Take a look at the Action point cost reduction table, again using Power Fist as an example with lightning punch and tabi:
char w/ 3 dex need 13AP (16 base - 2 light punch -1 tabi) per punch = 50/13 = 3 punches per turn w/ 11AP left over
char w/ 10 dex need 10 AP per punch = 5 punches per turn
char w/ 16 dex need 7 AP per punch = 7 punches per turn w/ 1AP left over

You don't have enough base abilities to max both dex or str because you still need points for agi, wil, con, etc. So now it's your choice - str or dex melee, pick one.

Stealth is important because 1)you want alpha strike and 2)you don't want to waste precious MP+AP to get close to your enemies and 3)you don't have any ranged skill besides grenades. This is especially important in early game when you don't have access to infused Siphoner Leather tabi. Acidic entanglement or a throwing net will destroy you (whereas if you are playing range you can still shoot back).

For my dex build you'll want to start a fight with a punch under stealth, and fancy footwork will get you the MP needed to get to the next target. For Wildan's str build you'll want to do the same but now you'll use sprint for 30MP + 10MP from jumping bean for your first turn. Your high agi + tabi will provide enough MP for the turns after.

For a hard game my dex build has 470HP, but you need to be under 30% health for survival instinct so it's actually 141HP. Wildan's str build has 174HP. So yes, a melee build without stealth and without a great dodge and evasion is not a good idea.

Here are the revised builds so you'll be able to lockpick and hack:
Dex build - lost napalm grenades, drugs (Irongut, Aegis, Bullhead, Super Health Hypo, Regenerative Mixture, Super Soldier Drug) and ability to craft super high quality stuff.
Str build - lost all the drugs (no focus stim! no jumping bean!) and ability to craft super high quality stuff.
 

--- Edit 2018 MAR 08 for v1.0.3.20 due to request: ---
DEX brawler - no hack no lockpick version
DEX brawler - hack + lockpick version
Abilities at start
3/10/7/10/3/3/4
pump DEX to 13 ASAP, remaining points to INT

Skinner is optional, you can switch it w/:
Recklessness: more crit chance
Dirty kick: extra option to stun
Crippling strike: Free 150% hit once every turn
Three-pointer: 10% for grenade to crit

STR Psi Monk - no hack + lockpick version
STR Psi Monk - hack + lockpick version

Abilities at start
10/10/6/3/3/3/5
pump 1 points to INT first, remaining to STR

Take Armor sloping when you can farm Super Steel so it's not fix at level 22
Wrestling is optional, you can switch it w/:
Dirty kick
Crippling strike
Psychostatic electricity - more crit chance
Critical power - more critical bonus damage but you should take this AFTER Cheap shots

*Remember infused Siphoner Leather tabi was nerfed as of ver 1.0.3 - make sure to check out the wiki so you'll pick the right tabi for you.

*Please note these builds are viable only up to hard difficulty. You are pretty much untouchable if you med up (adrenaline + jumping beans + boxing gloves buff) so getting hit is rare. However, dominating difficulty significantly nerfed dodge + evasion to the point where you can either:
A) Rush to max level ASAP using classic mode in order to max out effective dodge + evasion - which is super unfun, plus you can only reliably dodge/evade up to mid-late game. At late game enemies are still going to hit you.
B) Level up as normal so your effective dodge + evasion always lag behind npc offensive skill, so it's always a coin flip to see if you'll get hit.
Dominating melee will probably required a more defensive mindset (take feats like Conditioning, maybe reduce INT for WIL so you can take Stoicism). Dodge + evasion at this difficulty is just not worth it; you might as well take those skill points to chemistry for MK V grenades and/or to bio for those sweet meds.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 04:01:08 am by destroyor »

Ramen_os

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 02:13:18 pm »
It's really clear. Thanks a lot for your explanation.

I guess with a build with high dex, it should be easier on hardest zones because of the number of actions I will have, especially against enemies with a lot of life. At the same time, I am not a huge fan of drugs either.... Hmm, it's difficult to decide.

On the other side, having 1 good psy ability and be able to hit like an ogre would not be unpleasant with the second build you suggest :)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 07:09:31 pm by ramenos »

Fenix

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 02:36:27 pm »
Dodge + evasion at this difficulty is just not worth it; you might as well take those skill points to chemistry for MK V grenades and/or to bio for those sweet meds.

Well, not always.
I just did yesterday fight with a Mateo and his "minions" - and guess what? tanked them all with my 23 lvl full dodge\evasion build.
Yes, it's only in the end of the game, but anyway - not always.
I even thought at first his "minions" are somehow specifically weakened version of spoiler, but looks like not.
Won from first try, when I didn't even used Jamping Bean\Adrenaline before the fight, and didn't had my shield turned on.

MirddinEmris

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2018, 06:01:29 pm »
Quote
- highest hacking check is 135 and highest lockpicking check is 130. Jackknife provide +7 lockpicking and huxkey provide +15 to hacking & lockpicking.

True, but this gives impression of having 120 hacking and passing every possible check, which is not correct. There is a dialogue option with 130 hacking check and you can't use huxkey/haxxor to assist it.

Bier

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2019, 12:09:46 pm »
Hey guys,

first of all thx for the great guides in can find here.

Actually im playing my 3. underrail-char.
Im using this build: DEX brawler - hack + lockpick version
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMNBwoDAwcAMgDCh8KHwodbVDUAKm5qACRnAAAAAAAAYiRjMCAWEwcGEks8Ql0

I play on hard and build is working fine. Im level 12 now.
Compared to my last playthrough as pure psy it feels much harder, but i allready read about pure psy is the "easiest" build around :D

I got some questions:
Am i right that if i wont use skinner i dont have to put 7 points in INT and can spent points otherwise? I would take DEX?
Improved unarmed Combat does not work with gloves, right?
Could Evasive Maneuvers be also a choice to get cause it would synergy good with Fancy Footwork? Or is it always better to take offensive Feasts?

@Destroyer:
Maybe u can update this build to expasion? I allready did my thoughts on i would pick, but im not the born Buildmaker :)

Thx a lot for your help!

Ploluap

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2019, 12:23:45 pm »
Bier :

Yes 5 int for cheap shots and expose weakness is plenty enough for melee.

Yes Improved unarmed combat is for unarmed only.

Evasive maneuvers does have synergy with fancy footwork, some good players use it, i (a bad player) don"t like it though (moving to a safe spot is most of the time the better defense you can hope) and prefer other defensive feats such as escape artist or uncanny dodge.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 12:27:03 pm by Ploluap »
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Fenix

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2019, 02:50:19 pm »
(moving to a safe spot is most of the time the better defense you can hope) and prefer other defensive feats such as escape artist or uncanny dodge.

True, but sometimes it's impossible.

Bier

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2019, 01:04:16 pm »
Thx for your answers.

I even found out that theres "deflection" which should be better than Evasive Maneuvers.

When u can go to level 30 there could be some space for defensive skills maybe.

I am still not sure what to take after reaching Level 25.

MirddinEmris

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2019, 11:18:05 pm »
I didn't try it myself, but i would think that completely unarmed build might be easier to play now. First, you need only 9 Dex + lighting punches + tabi to make 5 AP unarmed attack. Second, two feats actually increase your unarmed damage decently and on high str build it's would actually add up to a very decent damage output. You do loose on the utility and damage of the pneumatic strike and no bleed on a weapon hurts a bit, but you win with the amount of attacks, so i don't think that you will loose in the end especially with emission.

Fenix

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2019, 03:52:43 pm »
If anything, I think you should aim for 4 AP per attack, because it's like, 20% speed boost for your sttacks.
Or is it 25%?

MirddinEmris

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2019, 04:44:19 pm »
If anything, I think you should aim for 4 AP per attack, because it's like, 20% speed boost for your sttacks.
Or is it 25%?

5AP = 10 attack/round. 4AP = 12 attack/round. 20% increase.

With Adrenaline it's 14 vs 17 attack/round. Around 20% too.

While good, it does requires a lot of investment in terms of attribute points, which melee+psi character does not have in abundance. Putting them in Str can have a better effect, since it affects both damage from unarmed and from your psi.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 04:46:45 pm by MirddinEmris »

Fenix

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Re: Unarmed/Boxing Gloves Build
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2019, 11:11:34 pm »
Wait, does Bone Braker work for unarmed?
I thought it's for sledgehammers only, all these years...