Author Topic: Build for first playthrough  (Read 25629 times)

sirdond

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Build for first playthrough
« on: December 24, 2016, 10:31:05 am »
Hey everyone,

New to the game,already started a character,but after a few hours I've realized how bad it is.
And now I just want to restart with a more potent one, so can you reccommend me a viable sniper/crafter or a science/crafter build for the most recent version of the game? (I found some guides, but don't know if they are still actual)

Thanks!

Lucifuga

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 12:08:36 pm »
Real hard to go wrong with a sniper
Check this out

http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGgTAHKpgrC8DMICMpkqSA7Kx9oRDQV8jzDT4qFRtqziLyVxwBOERANi4hAAsrWMOSxc2VtjA54EZO0RA

Feel free to change the perception stat as 15 is a bit overkill
10 is perfectly adequate but I'm a fan of maxing out damage

Sniper rifles need 5 str to effectively wield them without penalties

Snipers benefit greatly from stealth since it directly increases the damage of the Snipe feat

I find most ask how much lockpicking/hacking they need for the highest checks
Answer in black text: 130/135.

Your first 2 feats should definitely be Aimed Shot and Sprint
Take interloper as soon as possible

Take offensive skills first - Snipe/Sharpshooter/Critical Power/Blitz
The crafting skills should be near to last
I ended up picking up Opportunist dead last
Ambush 2nd to last as it is rarely naturally useful

I feel as a sniper investing points into dodge/evasion to be a waste
Dodge in particular as rifle accuracy suffers greatly at melee range
Evasion is honestly perfectly fine but I'm a stubborn one

Mk IV grenades are amazing
You'll need 69 effective chemistry to make them

Biology is for drugs/medicine

Crafting at first may not be all that helpful but pays out immensely as you progress

Most encounters as a sniper involve dropping 2 enemies in the first turn from 100->0 with the aid of adrenaline/sprint+blitz
In larger groups use grenades to thin them out or a flashbang to escape

Snipers are fairly over powered so you should be dominating most enemies by lvl 10
Glhf

sirdond

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 03:16:10 pm »
thank you, I will go with the sniper build then.

NEvercalled

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 07:17:14 pm »
anything sneaky - can be mele/psi/range. Range is usually linked with sniper rifle in one hand.

And always max one stat ( dex/perc/str/will). You don`t need to make any traps/grenades when you max and the game is much easier.

Without maxing u will quickly notice that you have very low chance to hit... and die in the next turn.

And tbh when you are sneaky evasion is very useful. Whatever Lucifuga claims. When enemy has like 70 % to hit you can easily go down to 10 % - it comes from many factors.

Always kill crossbows/snipers/psi first. Everything else is a cake.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 07:19:52 pm by NEvercalled »

Wildan

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2016, 02:08:30 am »
Real hard to go wrong with a sniper

No offense but it's rather easy to go wrong with a sniper and you made a couple of mistakes, but what really baffles me is that you recommend an almost defenseles build (0 dodge/evasion AND 3 con) with needlessly high crafting skills for a FIRST playthrough.
I'd be surprised if he made it back alive from the SGS caves.

Lucifuga

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2016, 05:17:41 am »
Real hard to go wrong with a sniper

No offense but it's rather easy to go wrong with a sniper and you made a couple of mistakes, but what really baffles me is that you recommend an almost defenseles build (0 dodge/evasion AND 3 con) with needlessly high crafting skills for a FIRST playthrough.
I'd be surprised if he made it back alive from the SGS caves.

None taken
In retrospect the foolishness of a 3 Con/no defence skills for a first run is quite blatant
Suppose I shouldn't expect others to enjoy masochistic play styles - noted

The crafting skills are indeed needlessly high but finding a 160 quality component end game and not being able to immediately craft with it tears at me especially after having invested the points intended to do so.
With that said I'll admit mechanics can be taken down to ~150 effective skill
The rest I would still stand by boosts and all

Don't feel I did much wrong feat wise though for a sniper but please shine light if you spotted any glaring issues.
I'd consider giving up ambush and even opportunist for some sidearm/trap feats but I didn't view much else of worth to spend a point on sniping oriented.
Highest contender would be hit and run for further mp after the initial snipe kill to convert into ap via blitz but even that only nets +3 ap
Feel free to tear in

sirdond

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2016, 08:54:00 am »
Thanks for the inputs, I've ended up with a slightly altered build of Lucifuga, with some more CON and DEX and a little bit different skills.
I have another question though: How useful are the social skill, do they worth the investment?

NEvercalled

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2016, 06:37:51 pm »
if you like to roleplay then yes they are useful.
However you can do almost all the things without any social skills. Stealth + lockpicking + electronics can solve plenty of problems. And there are only few quests in game.

However persuasion allows you to take much shorter path usually. I play in classic mode so i get xp from kills. It might be that with that second system ( i don`t know much about it) persuasion is more useful.

destroyor

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2016, 05:32:04 am »
I would strongly recommend an assault rifle build for your first playthrough.

To be honest social skills isn't that great in Underrail, don't expect skill checks like Fallout, Fallout 2, or Fallout New Vegas. Persuasion is the most useful out of the three social skills.

The sniper build with 0 evasion and 10 agi for your first play ... you are going to have a bad time.

Wildan

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2016, 03:17:00 pm »
First of all, snipers are not suitable as standalone weapons. They need a secondary firearm, not only for melee oponents but also for all those kills where the enemy is good as dead and vs little pests like burrower spawns. A full 24 AP sniper hit is an overkill here.

Snipers kill from afar and kite pretty well but melee enemies WILL close in from time to time, be it from missing to hit, surprise/stealth attack, lack of ground to cover, loss of initiative roll or the need to dispatch someone more dangerous first. Once a melee enemy gets in his range you'll get precision penalties no matter what, because you need to either:

1.) Shoot while standing within melee range and suffer 40% or 25% (Spearhead frame) "close quarters" precision penalty (vs all enemies - not only those in melee range).
2.) Move away and suffer 30% or 15% (Spearhead frame) "move and shoot" precision penalty.

Those penalties are flat and can't be compensated by high guns skill. 95% CTH will always become 55%/65% or 70%/80% on a Spearhead sniper.
#2 will always apply and #1 can be lowered by 20% with the use of a rifle barrel retractor, but if you need to waste a crafting slot for that, then there is no real use of a second sniper and it's much better to use a fast Assault Rifle as a secondary gun (11 AP 7.62 Hornet/RR 9mm Hornet/RR 8.6mm Chimera). ARs have 5% move and shoot penalty but none for close quarter melee range and ARs are DEADLY point-blank. Sniper has no use for DEX so naturally ARs are the best choice here but it does pay off to bring a 11 AP SMG along (ideally a smart, muzzled 5mm impala with shock rounds) vs situations where you're in danger of becoming crippled.

And this is where some dodge skill is important. For a far-range build it doesn't have to be maxed out but it should be raised to at least 40 to qualify for Uncanny Dodge, but @10 agility I'd raise it to 51 to make the effective dodge skill 90, which will result in a total of 5 automatically dodged melee attacks when activated. Can be increased further with gear but 5 attacks is usually solid vs single enemy.

Uncanny Dodge was nerfed a while ago and has a 5 round cooldown so it won't be a saver at all times. For this reason, like I mentioned above, it's good to have a SMG ready and equip it BEFORE encountering mobs with several unarmed or knife wielding enemies. On higher levels they're very likely to have the Crippling Strike feat and stack the crippled debuff on hit. 1 stack alone lowers STR by 2 points and the character no longer meets the strength requirements to wield the sniper and AR without precision penalty. SMGs don't have any STR requirement so you won't have to worry about that.

Speaking of STR, most ARs need 6 but it's still better to leave STR at 5 and use rathound barbeque to get a temporary +1 buff. It lasts for 20 minutes which is plenty and it's never a problem to carry a dozen or so around. One base ability point saved is worth it.

On a low/0 armor penalty build it does pay off to max evasion, especially @ 10 AGI, actually on anything that can't rely on armor damage reduction and has at least 6 AGI. Nimble is good as useless without Evasion/Dodge.
10 AGI works very well with sniper ofcourse but the best reason to get it that high is the Blitz feat. Though it's awesome it's not nearly as important for snipers as compared to something like a x-bow character. The AP bonus from Blitz is capped to 20 AP so you end up with 70 AP but need 72 to fire 3 times with the anatomically aware rapid reloader sniper (24 AP). You could burst fire twice for 66 AP with the 11 AP assault riffle but that's not good enough, since the sniper is still your main weapon, and if it really gets rough you can still pop in an adrenaline shot. So I'd drop AGI to 8 to qualify for Uncanny Dodge, dump DEX, WILL, and yes, INT too, raise CON to 10 and put everything else into PER:
5/3/6++/10/10++++/3/3
http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGloJgVhGGYQA4QEZQoCwgQlcbhizJ4ykgBsMVR6+q9GA7NmfYR0SiBEthbG5QEUFlACclGEwRMsTaZPHigA



3 INT may seem very bad for crafting but actually you can still craft almost everything IF you make good use of Junkyard Surprise (+2 INT) and Core City home crafting bonus (+15% effective skill). With those two and only 3 INT, a maxed crafting skill goes up from 121 to 167 (at level 25). Search for those terms in the forum or Google if it's unfamiliar.
For a first playthrough I wouldn't worry too much about crafting. Just focus on Mechanics so you can craft a scoped sniper (you don't need the anatomically aware one until much later). Chemistry you need only if you want to craft special ammo for the AR (9mm acid and 8.6mm incendiary). 7.62mm micro sharpnel only needs Mechanics.

10 CON is not really needed but if you're still not familiar with the fairly complicated game mechanics, having a high hp pool and immunity to stun (Thick Skull) will save you alot of frustration later in the game).
I'm playing permadeath and by far most of the deaths were result of me getting stunned any not being able to mitgate the damage in the next round I had to sit out. If you don't mind even more min/maxing regarding the skill distribution you could try a slight different build. I play this one for permadeath, and I need to lower Chemistry (35 effective skill for 9mm acid rounds), a bit Mechanics can be saved too and some from Lockpicking/Hacking (70 effective skill is good enough for most common locks) in order to max out dodge. I repeat, don't neglect dodging melee if you rely on weapons which have a STR requirement.
AGI is lowered to 6 so no Uncanny Dodge but 16 PER at level 24 which more than compensates for the loss of bit stealth (and thus Snipe damage). It's more powerful and precise than the build I posted above so I'd encourage you to try it:
5/3/6/10/10++++++/3/3
http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGloJgVhGGYQDYQEZQuQhK43GVXQmHBAFgHYQyUD0J0iJMAOYuj-WiENuZKLSgIoVKAE4QFBBTJSYFSeNrjxQA



Uncanny Dodge is replaced by Rapid Fire so when you burstfire for 33 AP you can still fire 3 times for 16 AP with the 11 AP assault rifle (fits within 50 AP). In terms of overall damage gain it's even better than Blitz which has a 10 turn cooldown. RF has only 2. You should take it early unless you come across a rapid reloader crafting component, which you will use to get your 30 AP sniper down to 24 AP. In my experience it's not likely to be found before levels 12+ (when you're done with the drill parts quest).

Suppressive Fire is not a must-have, you can replace it with something of your liking. Survival Instincts, Evasive Maneuvers or Fast Metabolism are good alternatives.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 08:28:38 pm by Wildan »

NEvercalled

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2016, 11:19:24 pm »
on hard lvl even with 10 con you can be easily killed just due to the freeze from psi.

More important even than build it to kill in the given queue.

i will go for uncanny dodge from wildan builds. Save your life from any melee quite often. After all i found that just 8 con 16 perc is better but whatever. 10 agi is not worth imo never.

You can even go sniper with 7 str to wear heavy armors when needed. And you will be able to check all game things.


"You should take it early unless you come across a rapid reloader crafting component, which you will use to get your 30 AP sniper down to 24 AP. In my experience it's not likely to be found before levels 12+ (when you're done with the drill parts quest)."

You can get rapid reloader earlier but the probability to get one from shops is quite low. In one of my gameplays i found only 2 rr.

Shops works like that. They replace inventory by the given time so you can just alt-tab the game ( it still be running) and just wait in the safe area an hour or so. In my first game i got rr in junkyard bcs i wanted to sell all my stuff:/. It was rly stupid bcs after all i landed with 10 stacks of useless charons and a bit later i have had again enormous amount of guns.

And one more thing spend all your money all the time. In this game u can earn millions just like that.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 11:37:40 pm by NEvercalled »

destroyor

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2016, 01:15:09 am »
I don't understand the reason behind a sniper build recommendation for a new player.

Be honest and think back, which build is more newbie friendly? A Sniper or a metal armored assault build (tin can)?

10 con = high fortitude = high chance to resist negative status effects
Metal helmet w/ shaded visor = immune to flashbang
Metal armor = high mechanical resistance and threshold (up to 95% for end game gears)
10 con + Juggernaut + metal armor set = good enough health to tank almost everything.
Assault rifle just mow down squad of enemies with ease, and is a perfect fit with grenades and/or taser. (11AP assault rifle burst = 33 AP + 15 AP grenade or 10 AP taser)

Uncanny dodge won't help when you are ambushed by a stealth knifer. On the other hand if you are wearing metal armor set you could pretty much ignore all enemies except psi users as bullets, knives, sledgehammers all deal mechanical damage.

on hard lvl even with 10 con you can be easily killed just due to the freeze from psi.

This is a non-issue for a tin can because he/she can just gun straight for the psi enemy and ignore everyone else. A sniper won't have that luxury.

You guys are just making a new player's game harder than it should be. A tin can is just more forgiving and newbie friendly. The two easiest builds for Underrail is tin can and stealth psi, but stealth psi loses out in one on one arena format battle.

Wildan

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2016, 08:04:35 am »
A sniper can always equip a pistol/SMG/AR in his second slot and use it situationally without any issue, with a low armor penalty build to it's full potential thanks to Snipe.

A "tin can" build is straightforward and still solid but not as much as it used to be before the nerf. Back in mid 2015 the damage resistance of metal armors and crafting plates was reduced as they were OP. One problem newbies might have with it is that it takes quite a long time to craft really good metal armors (above 80% resistance) and until then one has to walk around without any dodge/evasion and rely on DT of anti-rifle vests (which are better choice early on). Doable with 10 CON but still not really newbie friendly.

Getting ambushed when putting every stat point into PER is not very likely, especially not if exploring hostile areas with detection goggles while stealthed. You'll notice the hidden enemy before he notices you.

On the other hand, as a tin can you also cannot ignore knifers and combat glove guys, not with only 8 or 9 STR. Like I mentioned in my previous post, these enemies often have Crippling Strike, will hit with 95% chance vs 0 dodge and because you're probably not walking around with your shield on depleting it, and you're most certainly loosing initiative, they only need to cause as much as a scratch to get one criplled stack and lower your STR below 8 debuffing you with a 15 AP penalty for not meeting the STR requirement anymore. Another stack and you can't hit reliably with the AR. Luckily as one approaches 95% mechanical damage resistance they'll have less and less chance to actually cause damage and the debuff through the armor. This is where metal armor gets really good.

Metal helmet with shaded visor does make you immune to flashbang but it also lowers PER by 1 point which is bad for a ranged character - less precision and damage. Besides that, it shares the head slot with goggles and you need the smart ones to increase the special attack damage. Burst attack DOES count as special attack. Metal helmet is better suited for high STR sledgehammer guys.

Regarding the build you linked in your previous post destroyor, I assume you unintentionally copied the Weaponsmith feat into the build as it does absolutely nothing for a ranged character. The usefulness of Armor Sloping for a non dodge/evasion is questionable. The only usefulness would be some retention of movement points but in order to reach 95% mechanical resistance you'll need multiple plates and thus reach high, maybe still even 95% armor penalty. Most MP will come from striders anyway so I don't think it's worth taking this feat.
Investing extra 3 points into INT just to be able to craft a good metal armor earlier is probably one of the bigger disadvantages in this build. Those points would be much better invested in maxed PER in the long run but then again a new player will have a hard time surviving with mediocre metal armor because of the need to rely on crafting. Personally I'd still do it but I wouldn't recommend it either for a new player that's going for metal armor.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 08:08:15 am by Wildan »

NEvercalled

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2016, 02:42:01 pm »
when you are at 10 lvl you can go to 25 lvl area and still detect enemies with googles ( + 80 % detection is easy to get), ( You get bonuses to stealth from boots and armor).
with 75 % resistances you are still one shooted.
Overall you need super steel armor before it becomes useful.  To get this you need high level due to crafting requirements.

Without detection googles you can be crippled to 1 str easily even with quite good heavy armor as long as it is not at least 120 q ss.

Those are my notes from my gameplay.

Late game heavy armor is useful maybe even on the last arena guy(midgame) but late game is easy and short. And anyway vest is better midgame than heavy armor :/. You can easily go rifle vest and get better results.

One more problem with armor is that psi still can easily hit you for 100 + dmg. Even with 10 con it looks like burst from psi users -> freeze -> next turn and you can die. It is enough to have a bad luck and get to many crits. On normal level heavy armor is more forgiving.

An yea you need heavy armor with 3 plates on it -> it will be always 95% penalty when you include boots and helmet.







« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 02:51:30 pm by NEvercalled »

mattu

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Re: Build for first playthrough
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2016, 09:44:58 pm »
One thing I will remark on. If you do take social skills, like persuasion, you have to keep them up pretty well like you would a regular skill. Don't expect to pass those checks at the time you encounter them if you've only been trickling in points.

Persuasion skills don't give you anything all that valuable (right now, anyway) and if you're having trouble with the game might be best to postpone. Some builds (assault rifle can) probably have room for a "spare" skill even for a newbie.