Chemical/energy pistols

[Sanger]

Has anyone had luck playing an energy/chemical pistol character lately? I feel like it's probably the most disappointing build I've played. Not just because it's weak (though it is that; this is probably the weakest character I've played, even more than a knife fighter) but also because it's flatout boring. The tactical options look decent on paper but putting them into practice requires a lot of crafting and weapon juggling and it never feels as though it pays off. I remember them being slightly less bad the last time I tried a similar build, but I think that would've been before Gunslinger stopped working with energy weapons.

I really want energy weapons to be powerful, but they aren't. They're terrible. They're a direct downgrade from conventional pistols which themselves are straight up inferior to SMGs. Has anyone's experience been different?

[destroyor]

Glad to see someone else independently reached the exact same conclusions as my own.

Btw, new stuff for chemical pistols has been implemented, so expect that in the next update.

http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=2790.msg15782#msg15782
As you can see we can expect some sort of buff for chem pistols. Yes, I agree they are pretty bad right now.

I think energy weapons are weaker than conventional pistols with one exception: aimed shot w/ electric pistol. However I agree pistols as a whole is in a pretty bad place right now.

[Sanger]

I agree, the electroshock pistol is the one thing I feel gives me a legitimately interesting and useful tactical option as an energy/chemical pistol user. The chemical pistols are all very much underwhelming by comparison, and nothing in my arsenal feels like it can compare to a standard pistol for the purpose of dealing damage. Despite the fact that I don't have Gunslinger or Rapid Shot with this character, I'm still usually carrying a Neo Luger or Hammerer alongside my electroshock pistol because laser and plasma pistols seem to be virtually useless. Glad to hear that Styg is aware of some of the problems with pistols though at least.

[Hal900x]

http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3090.msg16256#msg16256

There are plans to fix Energy Pistols per Styg, but whether that happens before the expansion remains to be seen. I would say unlikely. I continue to be mystified by the absence of Gunslinger from Energy Pistols.

[Sanger]

It might make more sense if they were more powerful than firearms pound-for-pound, but there are few situations in which I'd rather use a Plasma Pistol than a Hammerer or a Laser Pistol than a Neo Luger.

[Fenix]

Well, if you build you character specifically toward energy weapon plasma and laser will be more effective, but there is a problem with Steadfast Aim - it require too much Str in my taste, if 5 it will be better, but 5 is only 1 point above minimal, so doesn't look so steadfast I think.

[Hal900x]

Well, if you build you character specifically toward energy weapon plasma and laser will be more effective, but there is a problem with Steadfast Aim - it require too much Str in my taste, if 5 it will be better, but 5 is only 1 point above minimal, so doesn't look so steadfast I think.

Steadfast Aim is broken. It is guaranteed to create a gimped build. The Str requirement is indeed too high. If it were possible to combine with Gunslinger in an Energy build than perhaps it might be doable, and the AP reduction would act as a balancing force against it. The best I can glean is that excluding Gunslinger from energy weapons was a thematic choice, but it's unclear.

[jubisloviu]

Energy Pistols take their time to work.
One of the good things about Energy Pistols is that they're like sniper rifles but with less range and no move and shoot penalty, they are really good for critical focused builds with Steadfast, Critical Power and Practical Physicist.
the strategy i used the most was just busting into places, stunning the toughest enemy with the Electroshock Pistol and killing it on the second attack with a Execute Crit of the Plasma Pistol.


They start to pick up when Core City and Foundry are available, this way you have more chances to get Circular Wave Amplifiers that turns the Plasma Pistol and Electroshock Pistol into crit dealing killing machines.
i had a good run with them, even managed to luck out and get a high level CWA later on that bumped my critical damage to over 600%.

[Altos]

Energy Pistols take their time to work.
One of the good things about Energy Pistols is that they're like sniper rifles but with less range and no move and shoot penalty, they are really good for critical focused builds with Steadfast, Critical Power and Practical Physicist.
the strategy i used the most was just busting into places, stunning the toughest enemy with the Electroshock Pistol and killing it on the second attack with a Execute Crit of the Plasma Pistol.


They start to pick up when Core City and Foundry are available, this way you have more chances to get Circular Wave Amplifiers that turns the Plasma Pistol and Electroshock Pistol into crit dealing killing machines.
i had a good run with them, even managed to luck out and get a high level CWA later on that bumped my critical damage to over 600%.

Holy crap, that's a lot of damage! You could probably even 1-hit KO a Dreadnought with that much Energy and Heat damage!

[destroyor]

Energy Pistols take their time to work.
One of the good things about Energy Pistols is that they're like sniper rifles but with less range and no move and shoot penalty, they are really good for critical focused builds with Steadfast, Critical Power and Practical Physicist.
the strategy i used the most was just busting into places, stunning the toughest enemy with the Electroshock Pistol and killing it on the second attack with a Execute Crit of the Plasma Pistol.


They start to pick up when Core City and Foundry are available, this way you have more chances to get Circular Wave Amplifiers that turns the Plasma Pistol and Electroshock Pistol into crit dealing killing machines.
i had a good run with them, even managed to luck out and get a high level CWA later on that bumped my critical damage to over 600%.

Electroshock pistols have a stun chance of 50%, what do you do when it failed to stun?
The raw damage might be impressive, but it's very AP intensive to setup. A sniper/xbow might only do half of this damage (around 2k) but is actually much easier to use and infinitely more powerful/practical in every way. It is my opinion Styg see huge damage screenshot like this and over-nerfed pistol. It distorts the perception of the pistol class and causes people to over estimated the usefulness of pistols and energy weapons.

[hilf]

It is my opinion Styg see huge damage screenshot like this and over-nerfed pistol. It distorts the perception of the pistol class and causes people to over estimated the usefulness of pistols and energy weapons.

You can't blame him - huge damage per hit has equally huge psychological effect. One of the best way to make devs nerf what you want nerfed. Also screenshots most likely have stronger psychological effect than text.

I'd rather do 500 damage per hit but to 5 enemies any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Sanger]

Energy Pistols take their time to work.
One of the good things about Energy Pistols is that they're like sniper rifles but with less range and no move and shoot penalty, they are really good for critical focused builds with Steadfast, Critical Power and Practical Physicist.
the strategy i used the most was just busting into places, stunning the toughest enemy with the Electroshock Pistol and killing it on the second attack with a Execute Crit of the Plasma Pistol.


They start to pick up when Core City and Foundry are available, this way you have more chances to get Circular Wave Amplifiers that turns the Plasma Pistol and Electroshock Pistol into crit dealing killing machines.
i had a good run with them, even managed to luck out and get a high level CWA later on that bumped my critical damage to over 600%.

But you've just spent an entire turn to overkill a single enemy, and that's with your electroshock pistol proccing stun and a critical hit on your Execute. Meanwhile a crossbow build could reliably kill Vanga, Frost and another Lunatic in a single turn from stealth, nevermind what a SMG build could do. What is the advantage of investing so much into taking down a single enemy? Even if you are dead set on throwing everything at a single enemy, there are far more reliable ways of doing so than this.

Holy crap, that's a lot of damage! You could probably even 1-hit KO a Dreadnought with that much Energy and Heat damage!

You can trivially OHKO a dreadnought with a Snipe or Aimed Shot from a sniper rifle loaded with 12.7mm W2C, and you don't need to roll the dice on getting stuns or criticals in order to do so. Hell, you can kill a dreadnought in a single turn using a .44 Hammerer with Rapid Shot alone if you're lucky, or that and Aimed Shot together if you aren't.

[MirddinEmris]

Yeah, Execute is just overdoing it. Though he probably just wanted to see how big he can get in damage. The thing is, you can get 2 shots/turn with plasma pistol, as much as with sniper rifle (albeit with lower range and accuracy on second shot, though with no move and close range penalties either). And with proper crit build, you can get very decent damage per turn. On small targets you can use laser pistol. Also, they have an advantage of dealing a damage that is less resistant compared to mechanical and you don't need to keep a supply of W2C to deal with enemies like bots, bladelings and others like that.

Overall i think energy pistols are better than regular pistols, they may be one-trick pony, but they at least have this trick and this trick is decent. They still not that great, and need a buff, so they can be used outside of very specific build.

[Sanger]

Yeah, Execute is just overdoing it. Though he probably just wanted to see how big he can get in damage.

Well, he said that performing Execute with the plasma pistol was the strategy he used the most.

Overall i think energy pistols are better than regular pistols, they may be one-trick pony, but they at least have this trick and this trick is decent.

What makes you think plasma/laser pistols are in any way better than their firearm equivalents? You can get the cost of firing a .44 Hammerer down to 13 AP. That's five shots per turn with adrenaline to a plasma pistol's two. Which tells you everything you need to know about why plasma pistols are bad: however much damage they may do, they have no way of spreading it around between enough targets for it to matter.

You can get the cost of firing a 9mm Neo Luger down to 10 AP, which gives you seven shots to a laser pistol's five, and you have the option of Rapid Shot with the Neo Luger, and it does far more base damage than the laser pistol to begin with.

[jubisloviu]

Electroshock pistols have a stun chance of 50%, what do you do when it failed to stun?
The raw damage might be impressive, but it's very AP intensive to setup. A sniper/xbow might only do half of this damage (around 2k) but is actually much easier to use and infinitely more powerful/practical in every way. It is my opinion Styg see huge damage screenshot like this and over-nerfed pistol. It distorts the perception of the pistol class and causes people to over estimated the usefulness of pistols and energy weapons.

my bad i think i exaggerated when i mentioned i just busted inside to kill the big baddie.
stealth is pretty much a must too, using it to pick off lone enemies and ambush for easy kills
the way i assaulted that mall full of lunatics was just
Enter Stealth -> Aimed Shot Crit a Lone Lunatic -> Enter Stealth, ad infinitum.

but alas i did everything before the nerf that made Energy Pistols stop working with Gunslinger, havent touched them since.
this was my best shot in the entire playthrought.

had to censor the enemy name because spoilers.

I'd rather do 500 damage per hit but to 5 enemies any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

i mean you can do that with electroshock pistols too, i'd say it would be a number between 2 to 6 (counting with yourself if you're unlucky).