feedback about my last build

[destroyor]

On Skinner and crafting:

If you have Q114 Ancient Rathound leather and Q160 SS fiber, you would get Q196 Infused Ancient leather. At this point, it doesn't matter if you have Skinner or not as the quality of your infused leather is unaffected by Skinner. The quality is strictly based on your source materials.

Now on the next part: Infused Ancient Rathound leather armor:
You won't see any quality # on your leather armor. Your leather quality will determine various bonuses, for example:
With Skinner:
Q187 Infused Ancient Rathound leather => leather armor = Resistances: Mechanical: 51%/25 Cold: 37%/15 All heat (and cold) damage taken reduced by 23%
Q196 Infused Ancient Rathound leather => leather armor = Resistances: Mechanical: 53%/26 Cold: 38%/15 All heat (and cold) damage taken reduced by 24%
Without Skinner:
Q187 Infused Ancient Rathound leather => leather armor = Resistances: Mechanical: 45%/21 Cold: 34%/13 All heat (and cold) damage taken reduced by 19%
Q196 Infused Ancient Rathound leather => leather armor = Resistances: Mechanical: 46%/22 Cold: 35%/13 All heat (and cold) damage taken reduced by 20%

@lewis_cb - theorycrafting is fun and all, but you should start and play a game for real so you'll see how some combo just won't work and/or work very poorly.

[lewis_cb]

Many thanks Destroyor.
Yes. I will soon try this out myself, to see if it would be doable to play it my way.
I already ditched 2 playthroughs midgame. I want to maximise the chances of completing the game this 3rd time.

I decided to make CON3->5 at the cost of PER12->10. I'd like to increase the survivability without dumping a skill for Evasion/Dodge.

Lastly, in your opinion, which 2 feats would you pick earlygame between Conditioning, Power Management, Skinner & Opportunist?

[destroyor]

Without question - Conditioning

The others will depends on your build and play style, but in general:
Opportunist > Skinner > Power Management.

[ironicman]

Is it possible to properly use Balor's hammer in the game currently? I know I can get up to 19 strength with the rat hound regalia, power fist, and bbq. I was thinking of trying a sledgehammer build centered around this

[TheAverageGortsby]

If you scum Junkyard Surprise or just cook a bunch of Super Soldier drug you don't even need to wear the fairly crappy Rathound Regalia to get 19 STR.  The penalty for using Balor's Hammer with 19 STR is very small.  There are some posts with detailed analysis of the damage breakdown, but the general wisdom seems to be that Balor's Hammer is about as good as a high quality TiChrome shock hammer, but the advantage to the shock hammer is that it doesn't require so much micromanagement to use properly.  I can attest from playing a hammer build that a good TiChrome shock hammer with lifting belt deals a very impressive amount of damage, even with a relatively measly 12 STR.

[MirddinEmris]

There are some posts with detailed analysis of the damage breakdown, but the general wisdom seems to be that Balor's Hammer is about as good as a high quality TiChrome shock hammer

You mean way better than TiChrome hammer, right?)

The main problem with Balor's is required investment and being able to use it properly only after lvl 16-20. Main idea is to put maximum amount into Str and when you have at least 14 you use rathound barbeque and adrenaline. Adrenaline is mostly known for giving you +20 AP for 3 turns, but it's less known property is giving you +2 Str. You suffer -5% accuracy (on top of final calculation) for each point of Str lacking. With 19 Str it's just 5%, meaning 90% maximum accuracy. Don't bother wearing stuff like rathound armor, you will loose much more than you gain.

I can provide some numbers if you want, but overall Balor's damage output is just WAY more even with the loss of 1 hit per turn compared to TiChrome. It also will leave you with 10 additional AP per turn free which you can use for medicine or taser (you have to wear lifting belt of course).

I did heavy sledge playthrough and used both TiChrome and Balor. For any serious battle i used Balor's and by the time Adrenaline wore off, either all or most enemies were dead, at which point i switched to TiChrome if there was a need to. Balor Hammer is difficult to use, but if you can, it will be very effective. It's actually one of the rare cases when unique weapon doesn't suck balls (rest of the unique hammers do, unfortunately).

[TheAverageGortsby]

You mean way better than TiChrome hammer, right?

No, I don't.  The raw damage output is noticeably higher with Balor's Hammer, but there are several significant drawbacks as well.  If all you care about is theorycrafted output, then it's a very simple comparison. But for many encounters, the drawbacks exceed the raw damage value of Balor's.  So I mean it's about as good.  Ideally, you'd carry one of each because sometimes one is better than the other; and it's not always Balor's Hammer that shines.

[Fenix]

Is it possible to properly use Balor's hammer in the game currently?

Yes, also you could use it only in lategame, or as early as midgame at least.
Despite all claims, you can use Rathound Regala - I kill Balor in this armor.
All short fights are bearable as long as you don't allow to hit you much.

[lewis_cb]

Hi,

After Santa's gift, I took the bowman dossier out of the filing cabinet. I have my masochism ready for DOMINATING.
I've replanned him, without Psi, as acid pistol + acid critical bolts (+50% dmg with new belt), some HP, Evasion & Stealth...

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMIAwYQAwfCh3XChwAAbm4AOwA9WjtXLkcAAAAAAAAIASYwAlE4IkxLasKRwoAz
Attributes: str-3 dex-8 agi-3 con-6 per-16 wil-3 int-7
Feats: Conditioning, Aimed Shot, Opportunist, Quick Tinkering, Ambush, Fatal Throw, Special Tactics, Marksman, Deadly Snares, Critical Power, Elemental Bolts, Cooked Shot, Bowyer, Sharpshooter

My question is, would you guys pick Aimed Shot & Sharpshooter, or Point Shot & Grenadier?
The former looks solid early and extra 75% dmg lategame, but the latter sounds like cheap chem pistol CC & AoE option (many swarms?)...
I can't make up my mind, perhaps you can share some of your experience and tips.

[Fenix]

I'm not an expert in such exotic builds and don't even want to analize it, but I can tell you that probably your 6 Con and Conditioning won't do much to you, put 10 in Dex and 4 in Con and you will have free feat.

A good - really good with you Perception score - replacement for Conditioning is Paranoia, you probably might be able to see Death Stalkers with it and good quality motion tracking googles.

Also, you do understand, that you need to take Elemental Bolts as early as possible which is lvl 14 right?
Also, Critical Power is as important for you (I think) as Elemental Bolts, and it is too lvl 14 feat.
Without this, your strategy won't work.

[lewis_cb]

Hi,

Thanks for the comments. I will need to consider that option.
Paranoia gives sweet +55 Detection plus 5 Initiative & -3% critically hit, but I'd lose ~110HP lategame.
Does it happen that if they reach you you are instadead?

Also, you do understand, that you need to take Elemental Bolts as early as possible which is lvl 14 right?
Also, Critical Power is as important for you (I think) as Elemental Bolts, and it is too lvl 14 feat.

You are right it's an issue. I thought of picking Deadly Snares @14, Elemental Bolts@16 and Critical Power @18 (the order of these 2 depending on Bowyer).

Regarding Grenadier, I found an issue. Catalyst belt provides no utility slots, so I'll have 2 but need 3 or 4 (special bolt(s), grenade(s), throwing knife)...I could use utility belt when facing swarms and catalyst belt otherwise, but this might not justify picking Grenadier. I'm hesitant about Ambush too...Quick Pockets seems an option now.

[Fenix]

Not instadeath if you get yourself proper armor, but it would be preferable to not let them hit you if you can.
Maybe Conditioning is a better option, because sometimes two of them attack at same time or short after first attacked.
Anyway, I playing 3 Con Agent Orange aka remember Vietnam aka chem gun build, so I expect to survive them anyway.

I thought of picking Deadly Snares @14, Elemental Bolts@16 and Critical Power @18 (the order of these 2 depending on Bowyer). ------ no that's too late, if someone is in the trap, he is dead anyway or disabled, Quick Tinkering is all you need, consider to throw Deadly Snares away, because you only could get it at second half of the game, because before there are more essential feats you need to take.
I don't know about Grenadier, I don't like those grenade feats because I always play builds that require many feats, so I even try to not use grenades at all.
Ambush is great if you have ways to make it work.

[lewis_cb]

God of the RNG, please forgive me, I decided to sacrifice the remaining defensive feat...your advice made a solid point. CC will have to do!

Conditioning looks like 1 extra CON, therefore I'll start playing now with 4CON and if permadying I'll drop 1/2 PER into CON. Also, I'll get to see if Quick Pockets, Grenadier, Ambush & Fatal Throw are trully worthy.
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMKAwQQAwfCh3XChwAAbm4AOwA9WjtXLkcAAAAAAAAmIi8wWcKROMKAS2pMFgJR
I reckon I'll need Ambush for those turns where enemies are far away and Acid Pistol + Deadly Snares is unavailable. Quick Pockets to have incendiary bolts, together with Grenadier should make the build fun. It should also fill the missing role of swarm control with Flashbangs & Molotovs (no Psi).
Fatal Throw for...I don't know really...free execution + 4 AP? Ocassionally allow 3 bolts...perhaps Paranoia could fit here.
Back when I planned to have 8DEX it was important because chem pistol costed 18AP, but now with 10DEX it costs 16AP and fits perfectly with 2 bolts (34AP).

I thought of picking Deadly Snares @14, Elemental Bolts@16 and Critical Power @18 (the order of these 2 depending on Bowyer). ------ no that's too late, if someone is in the trap, he is dead anyway or disabled, Quick Tinkering is all you need, consider to throw Deadly Snares away, because you only could get it at second half of the game, because before there are more essential feats you need to take.
Ambush is great if you have ways to make it work.

I put Ambush & Bowyer early on, so the order will be finally : Critical Power @14, Elemental Bolts@16, Deadly Snares @18.

Thanks for the feedback man, I read about your build (Hilf's) in RPGCodex and sounds very fun, hope u're enjoying it.

[Fenix]

There is at least one problem - if you take chem guns for their effects, then they won't work without Mad Chemist, because it doubles chance to proc these effects.
If just for +50% elemental damage, then fine.

I still think that Deadly Snares is an overkill, but actually it was for Hard, not sure if it's overkill now with +50% hp.
Anyway, you have no room for it, or you can take it very late in game, I think you'll reconsider about it, so don't pour skilpoints in Traps more then needed for QT.
If you want to make trapsless detectable, bear in mind that if you set trap around the cornet, even if you have 0 skill, most likely NPC trigger trap because he won't have time to detect it. Also, in a fight they detect traps very badly.

Paranoia is quite useful, especially with that huge amount of Per.
On Domination everyone who has stealth, has good stealth.
Also, my advice - don't go to Lurker territory early on, and even later, they tear you apart without good firepower, or good defence or good crowd control.
I can't even reliable hit them without reloadfest on 15 lvl with 10 Per.


Edit Wait, I misinformed you. Without Mad Chemist damage of the on-hit effects will be 1/2 right?
Or what? I'm a little confused.

[hilf]

Mad Chemist doesn't change chance to proc, it doubles damage of DOTs and duration of cold debuffs.