Energy pistol build

[destroyor]

I'm posting this thread because I've seen a couple threads about how energy pistol suck (since deleted) and how ambush is useless here and there.

In ver 1.0.3 energy pistols received a buff. The single most important change is the base AP cost reduction of laser pistol from 22 to 15. Energy pistols are very strong when they crit and pathetically weak when they can't crit. So our goal here is to a) increase critical chance and b) increase critical damage bonus as high as possible. A properly build and geared energy pistol char can clear ver 1.0.3 dominating difficulty. http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3281.msg17979#msg17979

First, my build: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMNBwMKAwfCh8KHAAAAwodxADIcKFt2SzBwAAAAAAAAARkxMB5RWRZLAj4zwppa
Evasion and Pickpocketing are optional. In theory it's possible to drop fatal throw and take psi empathy + premeditation and turn this into a psi energy pistol build. Or take more biology for SS drug. Or take mercantile to unlock special merchandise tier (in ver 1.0.3 special merchandise tier seems to spawn higher quality crafting component. However I don't see this being mention in the patch note - Confirmation/comment would be greatly appreciated).
At 14 DEX (using eel sandwich) a typical fight would be -> incendiary grenade to setup ambush, laser pistol crit shots @10 AP, electroshock pistol @21 AP (10AP point shot), plasma pistol @29AP (14AP point shot). Or stealth exit vent, aimed shot w/ plasma pistol obliterated your target, enter vent, rinse and repeat.

Gear (not even top tier, components used are around quality 12x ~ 13x):
Seeker goggles (crit chance +16%)
Infused rathound leather armor (crit chance +11%)
Recklessness (crit chance +7%)
Focus stim = crit chance +15%
= 49%

Laser pistol (crit chance = 6% from gun) = 55%
Plasma/Electro pistol (crit chance = 5%) = 54%

Feat
Ambush = crit chance + (20% + 0.3% * stealth skill points)
If we assume stealth skill point = 113 than crit chance = 53.9%

When you add everything up crit chance = 107.9 ~ 108.9%.


Next we have to understand and properly setup ambush. You can check your character's light level by studying your portrait. There are actually 5 different light levels:
Level 0 = completely darkness, portrait is completely dark
Level 1 = a little bit of light, portrait will flickering between darkness and light
Level 2 = some light, portrait will flickering between darkness (short time) and light (long time)
Level 3 = almost full light, portrait will occasionally dim but will stay bright most of the time
Level 4 = full light, portrait stay bright all the time

Ambush will only work if your char is at light level 0 ~ 1. It's actually very easy to confuse light level 1 with level 2 so to be safe always try to shoot from light level 0.

Similarly you can check your enemies' light level by right mouse click on them and looking at their portrait.

Next - the best way to light up your enemies is incendiary grenades. You will need a high effective throwing skill because you want the fire and light to land exactly the way you want it. I max out my throwing skill in my build for this reason. Once thrown you'll get this:

G = grenade landing spot
H = burning tile
E = empty space, nothing is happening

Code: [Select]

EEHHHEE
EHHHHHE
HHHHHHH
HHHGHHH
HHHHHHH
EHHHHHE
EEHHHEE

Burning tile will give off level 4 light up to 2 tiles away. You'll get another two tiles surrounding the area w/ various level of light (level 3 ~ 1), and than finally complete darkness. You should throw an incendiary grenade in turn base mode and learn its light locations.

If for some reason your incendiary grenade failed to light up your target you can try again on the same turn using a flare. Again you should throw a flare in turn based mode and study its light locations.

Energy pistols builds have the following weakness:
slow start and difficult early game
low accuracy
short range
fighting in small tight area where ambush is not possible
fighting in brightly lit area where ambush is not possible
enemies that are immune to critical (bladlings, and everything in mushroom forest)

Grenadier + three pointers + high grade frag/HE grenades will cover up some of these weaknesses (fighting when ambush is impossible). For early game quick tinkering + bear trap + abuse line of sight is the way to go, at least, that's how I did it. Ambush will help a bit w/ accuracy since it ignores half of ambushed enemies' evasion. For the end game I highly recommend you bring along advanced catalyzing belt, a fire/acid chem gun and a rapid smart 7.62mm Jaguar SMG in addition to your energy pistols.

I would rank energy pistol as the second weakest average tier class (the weakest being chem pistol) in reference to http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3264.0. It climbed 2 tiers from poor tier in this patch. It's on the same tier as a crossbow build but rank much lower due to the short weapon range and low accuracy. You can also kill yourself if you are not careful w/ your electroshock pistol.


Nerd Commando posted an alternative energy pistol build focusing on AGI, PER and INT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRf-gTw0jnc

[lewis_cb]

This is very nice info. I was concerned about how Ambush works (or doesn't) and this is exactly what I looked for. Many thanks!
Regarding enemies, do we need them to be in light level 4 for Ambush to work?

Regarding the build, would you consider viable too to make DEX10?
You get 10AP laser attacks with DEX14, but you could worsen them to 12AP with DEX10 (and electroshock pistol 25AP, they could fit nicely).
Then, PER could be raised to compensate (or even get more dmg since accuracy raises).

I am curious how a DEX10 PER12 INT12 laser & electropistol build would perform.
With High Technicalities, it looks like PER12 INT12 is better than any other combination (they are mutliplicative and give similar boost): 1'56*2'58=4'02 @12AP
For example, PER14 INT10 would give 1'40*2'74=3'84 (extra 20 Guns skill however).
All in all, this guy would be super squishy since there are no spare attribute points for CON or AGI...
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMKAwMMAwzCh8KHAABiwofChwA9ADNEQ0A_RAAAAAAAAAExJjACUR5ZS8KaWjMWEQ

[destroyor]

I'm not sure about enemy light level as I usually get them in or near a burning tile.

I still think DEX 14 is stronger than DEX 10 as the PER damage boost is not enough to compensate for the lost shot(s). Plus AP10 electroshock point shot is too good.

I don't think DEX10 PER12 INT12 would work as due to lack of mobility and short weapon range. Most likely you'll be kite to death by snipers, xbowers and psi.

[lewis_cb]

That's very true. Often what looks good on paper is crap.
You would get electroshock pistol @12AP with DEX10 & Point Shot tho. But mobility would be paraolympics level 

[hilf]

Or take mercantile to unlock special merchandise tier (in ver 1.0.3 special merchandise tier seems to spawn higher quality crafting component. However I don't see this being mention in the patch note - Confirmation/comment would be greatly appreciated).

From my observations it's mostly true. There is a shop in Fort Apology where Merchandise unlocks components of quality much lower than in standard stock.

You only need 127 Throwing for max chance to hit with granades.
How was reloading your Smart Amplified pistols without Power Management?
Did you rise Mechanics that high just for your SMG? Isn't Syg MPX good enough on Dominating? It does fine on Hard even with standard bullets.


Edit:
BTW for DEX maxing builds lasers are only as fast as they used to be, and actually slower with extreme DEX (17+).
Sure, they are faster with less DEX but they are also worse with Steadfast Aim.
This laser buff is in part just unnerfing.

[destroyor]

You only need 127 Throwing for max chance to hit with granades.
How was reloading your Smart Amplified pistols without Power Management?
Did you rise Mechanics that high just for your SMG? Isn't Syg MPX good enough on Dominating? It does fine on Hard even with standard bullets.


Edit:
BTW for DEX maxing builds lasers are only as fast as they used to be, and actually slower with extreme DEX (17+).
Sure, they are faster with less DEX but they are also worse with Steadfast Aim.
This laser buff is in part just unnerfing.

Would that be 127 effective or base throwing?
Reloading isn't that much of a problem w/o Power Management but you do need to watch out for it. Because I used incendiary grenades + quick tinkering + bear traps there were actually a lot of "down time" with no enemy in range so I can reload w/ Supercharged Lithium Cell. In some situations it's better to reload w/ Fusion Cell (even tho there's less than 100 empty room in the gun), might seem wasteful at first but they are dirt cheap anyways.
Yes I raised mechanics that high for SMG (for selling + end game) and tactical vest (for selling + early ~ mid game). I wanted a fast and hard hitting SMG for single shots when crit is impossible (base damage 20-41, special attack +51%, 7AP per shot @14 DEX) - Syg MPX is not even on the same level.

Not sure what you mean about lasers? Ver 1.0.2 lasers have base AP of 22 = 14AP per shot @17 DEX. Ver 1.0.3 lasers have base AP of 15 = 9AP per shot @17 DEX. Steadfast aim was "fixed" to only work on firearm pre ver 1.0.2? Trading 2 or 3 ability points for 2.5 ~ 5% extra crit chance is a bad trade anyways.

[hilf]

127 base Throwing.

I'm not good with UR's versions but it looks like 1.0.2 is after DEX nerf and Gunslinger change.
2 years ago DEX was giving 4% AP cost reduction per point. Maybe it was too strong for some options (SMGs i'm looking at you) but it surely wasn't for others (chemical pistols, throwing knives). But nerf has happened, hitting all fast weapons. Collateral damage i guess.
I wanted to inform players that recent laser changes are partially giving back what we had in the past. With broader perspective we can better evaluate recent laser buff.

A good example of "buff but not really" is Gunslinger - it used to give 3 AP reduction, then 2 AP, then 3 again. Going from 2 to 3 is not a buff but an unnerf. Yes i'm happy it got reverted but i'm grateful only for that +7 initiative because it was an actual buff.
I'm sure game devs are happy if players forget about nerfs since they can get more praise than thay deserve.
I don't like praising devs more than they deserve. I'm not encouraging anyone think same as me, i'm only providing information.

I have a video where i'm shooting final boss with laser for 7 AP. If my math is correct it was possible to shoot for just 6.
All things considered lasers are generally better than they were since release so i'm pretty happy with recent changes.

AFAIK Steadfast Aim always worked with all pistols. But now it gives only 2.5% crit chance to lasers instead of 6%.
Whether it is a good feat to use with lasers is another story. I was talking about players who are using lasers and have this feat because they have lost something. Not as much as they gained, but it's still some loss.

[destroyor]

For my last post I was thinking Gunslinger but type out Steadfast Aim ...

Melee used to be overwhelmingly strong w/ taste for blood ap reduction, combo 100 stun, no min 4AP attack restriction.