New playthough, build junkies and vets assist me please.

[Conflicted83]

Hey guys. Familiar with the game through the rathounds, psi beetles, GMS compound and some of the Junkyard. Its been a long time since i played and the urge has struck me now that i realize the game is about to get a big update, i'd like to beat it.

My struggle is i can never stay committed to a build because my mind loves restarting. I think i've played through the first two hours of the game a dozen times now just experimenting with things to learn and enjoy the mechanics of this awesome game.

Here's what i know i enjoy the most:
CRAFTING. The crafting system is one of the things i think i will enjoy more than anything in a build i will play through the game with all the way through. Making stuff in this game satisfies my tinkering.
Nades/traps. I really enjoy them. Even on characters with 0 skill i always find myself using them.
Stealth. I usually open combat from stealth into an attack into a nade of some kind.

Other than that, I am thinking I would like to make use of a Sniper build, but i'm not married to the idea. I'm not really super into PSI - i much prefer a non-psi character that relies on weapons and combat utilities he has crafted as i find that more interesting thematically. My experience is that for some reason pistols are really weak, i assume they require alot of feats to become strong. Assault Rifle's and SMG's i've been able to use with good effect, but i only had moderate success with the last Sniper build i tried to make and kept falling back on my assault rifle alot.

I always want to do too many things, and end up stuck at the character creation screen for hours and then by the time i'm in Junkyard i'm regretting some decision i've made for some silly reason or other or get killed by some group of mobs or encounter i'm not sufficiently prepared for.

Can you guys help me focus my attention while still allowing me to do the things i find fun?

[TheAverageGortsby]

Dump CON and WIS, balance DEX and AGI, go with about 6-7 STR (depending on what armor you want to be able to wear, maybe 8 ) and put as much into INT as you can afford - hopefully at least 7.

Make sure you use epeli's build calculator, at underrail.info.tm so you don't overinvest. You're going to be sinking several hundred points into crafting if you want to be able to make everything, so your skill point budget will be moderately tight.  You won't need more than the minimum in Throwing to pick up Grenadier, and won't need more than about 50 in Traps to be good.  Your non-sniper sidearm should probably be SMG or AR (depending on how many crafting feats you want to have - SMG needs no feats to be a decent secondary weapon, but needs more DEX than AR; AR needs a couple feats to be a real solid backup choice).  And if you've got decent Agility and don't wear super heavy armor, you actually only need about 50-60 base points in Stealth (plus sneaky shoes and armor and maybe a Cloaking Device) to be able to stealth everywhere undetected.

With good DEX and INT, you'll be able to pick & hack locks quite well with only a moderate investment, in case you want to be able to do those things as well.  Remember to plan on using food buffs and/or drug buffs to hit those really top-tier thresholds, and expect to do most of your crafting in player housing (you can get a nice buff to your crafting skills there, and you won't need to have the ability to craft stuff just anywhere).  Basically, you're going to want to plan out your character in advance because things will be fairly tight.

I might start with something like this: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQYHBgMJAwYPDwAAAAAPDw8ADw8AAAAPAAAAAAAAKDk and then put the first ability point into INT (especially if you intend to take crafting feats).  You're going to want some Mechanics early on because repairing gear is a huge economic factor. Once you get enough Throwing and Traps for Grenadier and Quick Tinkering, respectively, you can stop putting points in those and start to pick up things you care more about.  With Stealth at your disposal, you may not ever need a substantial investment in Dodge/Evasion.  The ability to set up a fight to your benefit will very strongly affect how many opportunities the enemy has to hit you; if they get nearly no chances to hit you, it doesn't matter as much if you're good at evading.

[harperfan7]

I kind of have the same problem.  I want to do everything and I'm generally unhappy with a too-focused build.  I love grenades and combat utilities in general.  The build that scratches most of my itches is this:  [suspicious][/suspicious]

It doesn't have grenades (I beat the game as a crossbow sniper that had the throwing skill; it's very unsynergistic with crossbows), but special bolts bring many options to the table and can sometimes affect multiple opponents.  You'll have mines, though, which are basically just grenades used differently.  You'll spot all the hidden stuff, you can pass all the agility tests, you won't suck at fishing, you're super sneaky, you CANT disarm all the traps, but you will spot them unless you like to run everywhere (I like to switch back and forth between detection goggles and smart goggles; I put the smart ones on right before I shoot), you'll pass all the persuasion checks unless you get a hard one early and with some item synergy you can pass many of the intimidation checks.  As long as you start combat on your terms, you should pretty much always win or at least be able to escape.  The one weakness is fragility and getting caught while wearing non-combat gear, but that shouldn't happen to you, and you'll spend more time on the game because you'll be sneaking around everywhere and carefully planning and laying traps all the time.  This and a sledge juggernaut are the only characters I've ever really stuck with.

I like guns too, but pistols are weak as you said (my very first build was a gunslinger), smg's blow through ammo super quick/have weak penetration/short range, assault rifles have that close combat penalty and require build choices that don't synergize well, and sniper rifles are very loud (never played a sniper, but used some on an AR juggernaut once; I like them).  Dominating makes enemy groups larger, which probably hurts snipers quite a bit.  Guns tend to have big penalties to hit for various reasons, which gets annoying to me. 

Crossbows are basically weaker sniper rifles that you can shoot more often and are quiet and bypass shields easier and have more kinds of "bullets".  With aimed shot and snipe you can usually kill two moderate enemies or one strong enemy before anybody gets to act.  Then, you start shooting shock or incendiary bolts to shut people down while you pick them off.  You can shoot, move around a corner, and let your enemies walk through your trap killzones, then you pop back out and pick off whoever is most vulnerable (you'll get bonus damage too).  You'll often win a fight without getting hurt, and your enemies usually wont get to use their consummables, so you'll collects lots of ammo and meds and grenades.  This build comes with tons of choices. 

I always want dodge and evasion on my guys, but crafting is just too good in this game to pass up, and I hate not being able to pick locks/hack.

[Conflicted83]

Thank you both for your informative responses, i've alot to think about. I had read other posts mentioning the food buffs, but hadn't known how to craft or where to get the exact right kind of food to help with it. And i never got far enough into the game to get a player house. The crafting i did was early tier 1 and 2 type stuff. Making stealthier armor, or a basic gun with mods. I had considered using a crossbow/silenced SMG + Traps or Nades and ditching one or the other and not going for snipers so i didn't have to invest so much into STR. Let me look at this stuff and i'll post here with what i finally decide on, and how it works out for me. Either way, this helps.

[drealmer7]

I can relate!

I'm still waiting on 1 patch post-expansion release to start playing again, but I anticipate it greatly and also have spent a lot of time at the beginning of the game and at the character creation screen/tool (it's easier to use the webtool) figuring out how I want to build.

I created a post about my ramblings around with skill choices and builds, to a point of driving myself a bit wonky trying to squeeze all that I want in.  It took a while, but I'm pretty settled with how I'm going to go about things now now.  I'm also doing a stealther sniper build (crossbow), that does hacking, lockpicking, traps, some crafting, and also persuasion+intimidation.

I hope you find a combination of things that is ultimately satisfying.

I've also resolved to perhaps creating 2 characters and playing through it simultaneously on them both.

[Conflicted83]

Well i went with

5 STR
7 Dex
6 AGI
4 CON
9 PER
3 WIL
6 INT

As my start. I chose Guns, Throwing, Stealth, Hack, Lock, Mechanics, Electronics, Tailoring, some Traps, Mercantile.

First point i put into INT

I've beat GMS compound, a bunch of stuff in Junkyard, and i'm finally to the point in the game that i'm seeing content that i've never seen. I'm at the quest to get the drill parts which is the point iv'e never progressed beyond, and i've explored outside junkyard a bit, although everything out there seems to just flat out kill me for the most part no matter what i do. The raiders in the bunker where the drill parts are supposed to be also pretty much kill me.

I just crafted a new tactical vest with ceramic plates and we'll see if i don't die so fast, its gonna hurt my stealth but i don't really care. The idea with the build was to get mercantile and my crafting and hacking and locking high enough to where i could pump up some evasion. Maybe should have done that first. I have 800 or so charons banked up, i may go work on crafting a badass SMG. I have a really low hit chance with my sniper vs these drill quest guys. Not sure where else to go to level up since everything else seems to kill me just as fast.

[Tygrende]

I have a really low hit chance with my sniper vs these drill quest guys.

Does your rifle have a bipod and the standard scope? The combined 20% hit chance bonus is invaluable early on. Alternatively, you can use a 7.62 rifle without the bipod, this way you will be able to shoot twice per turn with adrenaline or blitz.

Sniper rifles also have a considerable hit chance penalty in close range and after moving, so avoid both.

There's also light level, your hit chance suffers a lot if the enemy is standing in a spot with little or no light. You can use flares or molotovs to help with that. Keep an eye out for image intensifier tubes when visting weapon/electronics merchants, you can craft a pair of night vision goggles before Depot A if you are lucky. Night vision does wonders to your hit chance.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Not sure where else to go to level up since everything else seems to kill me just as fast.

I started a bunch of characters when I first played this game, so, like you, I've seen the beginning of the game a lot more than the middle or end.  Here's my suggestion of order for places to level:
(optional first): Go get your first level killing hoppers until you get the tail oddity, then turn in their meat to Mordre. If you're *super* focused and have a good way to kill them without using consumables, can get to level 3 using Classic XP before the pace becomes painful.
First: Tanner's quest. Use some of the money to buy a few grenades and molotovs, maybe two each.
Second: Jack's quest. Grenade to kill the three goons.  When in the GMS warehouse block, run to the gate and hide there, letting the guard kill the little rathounds. Pick off the Alphas for the XP. Use the money to buy a few more molotovs.
Third: Bret's quest. Use grenades to handle the beetles unless you have a better way. After coming back to SGS, clear the rathounds north and northwest of the GMS lower area, and also go into the Underpassages and kill the Lurkers.
Fourth: First level of GMS. If you have a good way to handle the robots, also the second.
Fifth: Walk from SGS to Junkyard. Pick on the three raiders west of the JY entrance, and kill a Siphoner in the next screen.  If you like your odds, kill all six. Keep the best leather to craft a suit for Depot A.
Sixth: GMS 2 if you didn't do it earlier. Third level of GMS. Also take the three raiders by the bridge just east of GMS3.
Seventh: Junkyard. Kill the thugs in the screen north of the main square (the city won't aggro). Do the first two quests for the Scrappers, and the first quest for the Eels. Do Kohlmeier's quest.  Do both of Abram's quests. Go back to GMS and finish off the raiders east of GMS 3.
Eighth: Go into the first Depot screen via the Scrappers route and kill the Junkyard Muties and dogs. Gather the mines if you have enough Traps skill. Go one screen west and cheese the doors to kill the dogs, and cheese LOS to kill turrets. Go back and do the second Eels quest.
Ninth: Finish Depot A.
Final stuff before or right after handing in drill quest: Two groups of Lunatics. Three groups of burrowers: GMS, SW of Junkyard land entrance, and west of the Lurkers by the Underpassages. Abram's third quest. Side with either Scrappers or Eels and do the showdown**.

Anyway, there's a fair bit of running back and forth if you follow that exact schedule, and I don't mean it as The One True Path To Success, but I've found that usually, that's about the way to run through that keeps the difficulty curve under control. So if there's any of that you haven't done yet and you're looking for places to level, consider those ideas.

**should add that there's a benefit to waiting to do the showdown until after you've turned in the drill part, so you may want to do that and then come back to JY to finish everything off, before going out and exploring the next part of the game.

[Conflicted83]

I'm at 50 mercantile and i swear, no one sells the bipod right now. Secondly, i thought i would be smart and use the anatomically aware scope instead of the regular scope. Clearly that was a mistake when crafting my rifle. For Gortsby, Hoppers give oddities? I had no idea. I'll have to go collect those oddities since i never knew that.

I've taken another crack at Depot A, using my bear traps and flashes and HE nades a little smarter. The grenadier perk as well as strategically placed caltrops for those pesky melee guys is helping out too. I'm managing to clear it out now, so its alright. Im just realizing that the real strength of my build is that i have to be very crafty, patient and methodical about every group of enemies, using stealth to scout them out, place my bear traps smartly and think about how to start the fight off and get the most out of flashbanging someone + opportunist. Next level up i need to get my hack and lock up to 50 cause i'm at 35 on each. I had to go hard on crafting and mercantile and guns on my last level up. That way i can get all the oddities and loot in depot A. No big deal. I think this character will be able to survive. Eventually i should hit the point where i have some points to spare into bio for the regen vest, and some evasion possibly. Thought i might have to restart again for a minute there. So far so good!

The suit i crafted had 75% Armor penalty lol so i cant hardly move in it or burst with my SMG after doing so. We'll just sell it cause its worth a ton.

Gortsby, you mention GMS alot of different times, It has 3 floors right? I just cleared everything is one go. Is there more to it? I even got the rathounds on floor 1. I didn't kill the robots i just avoided them and got all the loot and quest stuff done, went down and rescued the people and killed the raiders.

You mention Underpassages and Lurkers, are the underpassages the places in the lead-up areas to the GMS that lead you downwards? I never bothered doing much down there as i explored a little bit and never found anything useful.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Gortsby, you mention GMS alot of different times, It has 3 floors right? I just cleared everything is one go. Is there more to it? I even got the rathounds on floor 1. I didn't kill the robots i just avoided them and got all the loot and quest stuff done, went down and rescued the people and killed the raiders.

You mention Underpassages and Lurkers, are the underpassages the places in the lead-up areas to the GMS that lead you downwards? I never bothered doing much down there as i explored a little bit and never found anything useful.

Yeah, it's just 3 floors, although on the first floor, there's that place behind the locked door where you can find the map with a bunch of burrowers, and on the third floor, you can go through a small connecting area and find two screens full of raiders; one very easy, one not so easy (but, again - loot).  If you were able to clear it in one go, that's excellent.  Like I said, that sequence was just what I believe is generally the way that difficulty increases.

Yeah, the Underpassages are the areas below the level that you walk to get to the GMS compound.  It's worth exploring early on, because there's one lurker that usually has a very nice tac vest (sometimes a very, very nice one - which then makes the robots on GMS 2 trivial), and then coming back to later since it gives you access to a group of Lunatics and then, beyond that, a few screens that you would otherwise need to demo to get to.

Cave hoppers only have one oddity, and it's a 1/1 oddity, so you probably only need to kill a dozen or so and then you can stop killing the poor helpless things.

[Conflicted83]

to get to the burrowers do you have to tell Gorsky "Hey i wanted to explore that?" or is that something different? I also did not find the two screens worth of raiders you mentioned. They aren't in the same area as the people you save, but an area connected to that from what i gather? I'll have to re-explore that whole area after i finish depot A.

Also for my next stat point, really tough choice. should i go to 6 in STR for Assault Rifles, or should i start stacking perception for better accuracy with snipers and just keep to SMG's? is it worth it to use a a silenced SMG? Are energy pistols ever going to be good enough for me with my stat distribution?

[TheAverageGortsby]

should i go to 6 in STR for Assault Rifles, or should i start stacking perception for better accuracy with snipers and just keep to SMG's? is it worth it to use a a silenced SMG? Are energy pistols ever going to be good enough for me with my stat distribution?

That's up to you, either is fine; Mostly no (only silenceable SMG is 5mm and that won't get you far, though it can situationally be nice); Not ideally since you'll need some specific feats and you generally want higher Dex for pistols, SMGs, and EW.  EWs are generally better than pistols, but still not a top-tier weapon choice.