Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

[HulkOSaurus]

Hello fellow Underrailers,

I have this frequently occuring bug(or maybe it is intended) where I get immobilized by a throwing web around a conrner but cannot shoot back. So, it happens like this.

Lurkers and I tussle for a bit, then I move back around a corner waiting for them to come to me. I play a tanky character in very heavy armour and assault rifles. The Lurkers come in visible range, then throw a web, which immobilizes me, then shoot at me and end turn. I, having visibility on them, cannot shoot back on my turn. The game wants my character to move a bit in a direction around the corner in order to return fire. I've never seen them move after they've done their actions, implying that they stay in the same spot after they've shot at me.

I find it very puzzling that they can shoot at me, while I cannot shoot at them.

Here's a screenie:




That thing is occuring almost all the time and that Lurker in the picture didn't move after he was done with his turn.

Bug or intended?

Is 

[TheAverageGortsby]

Line of Sight in Underrail isn't quite as simple as just being able to see the target sprite. There are quite a few situations where enemies can see each other but only one can hit the other.  You've probably found some of those situations.

As an aside, and I don't know if this is part of the calculations, if both of those characters are right-handed, then only the Lurker *should* be able to hit.  Sort of like why spiral staircases were designed to twist to the right as you went up.  Can you find situations where the places are reversed?

[HulkOSaurus]

Aha,

I had me this feeling that it could, after all, be an intended feature of the game. Both characters are indeed right-handed and it makes sense for the thing to function like that. Earlier I thought about modded Fallout 4, where Super Mutants with miniguns can wreck you in two seconds, but if you crawl from a high place you can shoot them in the head without them being able to return fire.

And, sadly, no, I cannot think of any situation where the opposite has occurred(would have been quite neat, though.) I have this thing with this game where I only want to retreat to the north-east around corners because it gives me more visibility on my character. I can see how it's a bad idea now.

However... You talk about line of sight...

I find this interesting because my character is also good at Psi gizmos, but he couldn't use those, too. Again, is this intended?

[HulkOSaurus]

Got two more... after the previous discussion I thought you'd want to take a look at this... maybe it helps somehow.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Ah, now that's a long-standing issue. Having trouble targeting enemies who are in doorways?  That's been a thing for years.  Styg has replied to posts about that in the past, saying it's probably something deep in the code.  As to why it looks so janky, though, that's a result of the odd disjoin between where you actually are standing and where it looks like you are standing.  Which is of course itself a deep game mechanics issue.

Also, hey, how'd that Balor fight go?

[HulkOSaurus]

Ah, now that's a long-standing issue. Having trouble targeting enemies who are in doorways?  That's been a thing for years.  Styg has replied to posts about that in the past, saying it's probably something deep in the code.  As to why it looks so janky, though, that's a result of the odd disjoin between where you actually are standing and where it looks like you are standing.  Which is of course itself a deep game mechanics issue.

Also, hey, how'd that Balor fight go?

I see, I see... these things are good to know. Honestly, it's not a biggie, though something I'd wish wasn't there with this good game .


As for Balor... he literally parked himself in front of my char without taking a swing--I'm guessing his O-sized hammer has a high AP cost due to lack of strength. Him and his shield went in a single go from Ugthar's secondary weapon--a custom crafted 9mm Chimera for 9 bullet bursts loaded with W2C at all times. Not to be cocky, but was it supposed to be a tough fight?

[HulkOSaurus]

By the way, if anyone frequently encounters the asymmetrical line of fire bug (enemy can shoot at you but you can't shoot back without moving), share a save where it's easy to reproduce. That might help Styg to debug it.

As far as I can tell, it's rare to the point that most players never see it. I know it's still a thing, happens to me too occasionally, but I haven't been able to reproduce it reliably after alpha.

that's a result of the odd disjoin between where you actually are standing and where it looks like you are standing.

What?

I may have something for you. It's completely the other way around, though. I can shoot at enemies, while they can't shoot at me .

It's also very reproducible.

I've no idea how to share the save file, though.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Not to be cocky, but was it supposed to be a tough fight?

On the high difficulty settings, he can take a beating, and if you let him hit you, he puts out a fair bit of damage, but I wouldn't put him anywhere in a list of the top 10 most dangerous individuals in the game.  Still, he can show up - again, depending somewhat on difficulty - with quite a few friends, and if you don't block access it can become messy.  I don't think he's tough, but also didn't want to say, "Hey, how's that big sack of dead doin'" if you were having trouble with him

that's a result of the odd disjoin between where you actually are standing and where it looks like you are standing.

What?

I can't find the quotation I'm recalling, so maybe I made it up.  What I meant was, it's 10MP to a square, and the game keeps track of where in those tenth-of-a-square increments you are. But when you interact with movable things in the game, sometimes your character doesn't - maybe can't? - stand exactly where the sprite shows them, and your LOS is unintuitive.  I've had it happen with doors a bunch of times, and if it's a sparsely occurring bug, well, I have put a slightly embarrassing number of hours into the game so maybe it's just how the odds shake out.

[HulkOSaurus]

On the high difficulty settings, he can take a beating, and if you let him hit you, he puts out a fair bit of damage, but I wouldn't put him anywhere in a list of the top 10 most dangerous individuals in the game.  Still, he can show up - again, depending somewhat on difficulty - with quite a few friends, and if you don't block access it can become messy.  I don't think he's tough, but also didn't want to say, "Hey, how's that big sack of dead doin'" if you were having trouble with him

Well, thanks. That's pretty cool. I play on Hard currently, and unless he goes triple HP on Dominating I don't see him surviving more than a turn. That is, if I go the same build(improved) on classic XP.

The saves are in your profile/My Games/Underrail/Saves/. It's probably too big to attach here, but you could upload it to dropbox or similar service, or email it to Styg (admin@underrail.com)

Thanks, I will e-mail him now, explaining the situation.

[HulkOSaurus]

Quadruple sounds like fun, to be honest. After I am done with this run it's Dominating, for sure.

[ciox]

Is this bug fixed yet? It's really frequent and annoying. One place I would look is the AI code that makes AIs decide it's time to move towards the player to attack, they seem to check very aggressively every few micro/nano/pico units of movement whether they are able to attack the player yet, and attack as early as possible, this probably makes it possible for them to attack while they are still in cover, I bet it would be fixed if AIs were not allowed to check if they can attack the player with such a low granularity as it seems to be a lower granularity than the player can reach with his own attack order and pathfinding.