Eviscerate and Cut-Throat any good?

[mattu]

A little chatter while we're waiting . . .

I thought playing a knifer was a lot of fun, but I wasn't too impressed with Eviscerate or Cut-Throat, especially in comparison to the best unarmed feats. I don't think I even took either of these. Was I wrong?

(I'm assuming knifers are always going to take Cheap Shots, which figures into the thinking. Vile Weaponry is also likely and relevant to Eviscerate.)

Eviscerate didn't seem like it would really do that much damage--base weapon damage on a knife isn't that high. Once in a while it would be handy for a guy who's already bleeding a lot, fairly close to death, and isn't incapacitated by Cheap Shots, but this seems like an uncommon scenario.

Cut-Throat sounds cool, but the AP cost is pretty high (30 AP). By level 10 your knife attacks are 8 AP or, if you get lucky with TiChrome, 7 AP. You can get about 4 regular attacks in for the price of one Cut-Throat. That's quite a bit of opportunity cost (especially with Cheap Shots). Stunning doesn't stop an actor from calling for help, so if you don't kill a solo guy immediately you've drawn aggro. Against a solo guy I think I'd rather go for a first round kill or hope Cheap Shots procs. Maybe against a group, use Cut-Throat against the toughest guy with the idea of keeping him stunned for 3 rounds. Again, pretty situational.

Wondering what other people think. Maybe there's angles I'm missing.

[Bruno]

Cut-Throat:

High AP cost for taking out one guy for many turns.
Never took it because many hits means more movement points from Fancy Footwork, and chances for Cheap Shots to incapacitate.

Only interesting effect is that your first hit from stealth will halve the enemys dodge rating, so is much easier to hit with. This means you can take out the most dodgy/fast enemy in one swing.

EDIT:
Oh, by the way, one factor that would make Cut-Throat (and also Execute, for guns) more desireable is if the +[1-20] damage bonus from Expertise is also multiplied, and not added on top. Does anyone know if this is the case?

[ChaunceyK]

I'm playing an unarmed stealth guy, but I do like Cut-Throat.  I'm at Level 12 right now, and so far, I'm always sneaking successfully & getting a 95% chance to hit each time I use it.  My movement is already high enough that I can slash & run as soon as combat starts (if the first slash doesn't kill him).  More often than not, I'm using it against what I think are solo enemies, but then they turn out to have one or more hidden friends waiting to jump me, so if I can take out the first guy with one quick slash, I'm a happy killer.

The only downside I've found is that since you must be directly behind the opponent to even attempt it, I've already come up against a couple of foes (including [suspicious]Rathound King[/suspicious], for instance) who don't wander around & are always standing with their back against an object.

[Bruno]

The only downside I've found is that since you must be directly behind the opponent to even attempt it, I've already come up against a couple of foes (including [suspicious]Rathound King[/suspicious], for instance) who don't wander around & are always standing with their back against an object.

I like the noise mechanic a lot, it makes for interesting tactics when you are stealthy. When you throw a grenade for example, enemies will go to investigate.

So you can stay out of sight of a group of foes, enter turn based mode, throw a grenade, then move away from the blast and enter stealth. You can then exit turn-based mode if you like, as you are not sighted and not in combat. Nearby humans or other entities will move towards the sound, preferably into a well-prepared trap-/minefield, with zero risk to you.

The same mechanic could be used to make someone like the Rathound King move away from safety so you can cut his throat.

[ciox]

Cut-Throat is pretty cool, it has some perks like a stun that goes through Second Wind and it also very rarely misses. Only problem with it is that it only works on humans, I don't think it would be broken at all if it worked on biological monsters too. Oh well, at least it works on all types of humanoid mutants, that's something.

Example of me using cheap shots from jackknife + restealth + cutthroat to get two stuns in a row https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw9qo-Ls4Os

[ciox]

The same mechanic could be used to make someone like the Rathound King move away from safety so you can cut his throat.

Yes, it's definitely possible to do that, it's tricky but you can get a cutthroat on him that way, just don't get bumped out of stealth.

[mattu]

Thanks for the video, that was fun. I didn't know it would cut through Second Wind, that's is a nice perk. Still seems pretty situational to me, but maybe worth it for the fun factor.

[paulkirikawa]

The only downside I've found is that since you must be directly behind the opponent to even attempt it, I've already come up against a couple of foes (including [suspicious]Rathound King[/suspicious], for instance) who don't wander around & are always standing with their back against an object.

I like the noise mechanic a lot, it makes for interesting tactics when you are stealthy. When you throw a grenade for example, enemies will go to investigate.

So you can stay out of sight of a group of foes, enter turn based mode, throw a grenade, then move away from the blast and enter stealth. You can then exit turn-based mode if you like, as you are not sighted and not in combat. Nearby humans or other entities will move towards the sound, preferably into a well-prepared trap-/minefield, with zero risk to you.

The same mechanic could be used to make someone like the Rathound King move away from safety so you can cut his throat.

His loyalty hound fellas would also come out of the palace if you use noisy stuff. In light of Rathoud King's scored traps skill and detection, a better tactic is to place 2 or 3 beartraps from the door to a side cornor. Kill him in silent, then deal w/ left foes.