Skill/Stat Breakpoints?

[Faeren]

Hi there, relatively new to Underrail but enjoying the game thoroughly. Anyway, I want to ask if there are any notable breakpoints or "good enough" values for skills, in particular I wonder about Traps, Throwing and crafting skills, but any others would be good to know.

Since throwing just modifies how likely a grenade is to land on the target cell it doesn't seem like it needs to be pumped that high, it even seems like you could manage with next to none if you simply aimed far enough away that there was no risk of being caught in the AoE, since it will always land within 3 cells of the target cell anyway, so the only other consideration would be feat requirements.

As for traps I'm playing a "Spec Ops" build that I found in a video that sneaks around then rapidly obliterates foes with SMG burst fire and Grenades, but have been noticing good positions I could place traps, but I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to put some points into them or not. Is it the kind of skill that needs maxed to prevent enemies detecting your traps all the time or can you manage with a moderate amount?

And finally for stats, are there any breakpoints besides feat requirements, e.g. diminishing returns or levels at which a stat is just excessive?

[TheAverageGortsby]

Traps: whatever you need to place the highest-difficulty trap you expect to want to use.  If you have no idea, then shoot for an effective skill of 100.  Don't forget that if you are willing to swap things out, both the Trapper's Belt and the Jackknife will boost your traps skill.

Other skills: Just check destroyor's FAQ. There are a lot of skills and a lot of valid breakpoints.  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165

If you plan to use grenades a lot, then the Grenadier feat is nearly a must-have.  You don't need to put any more points in than what you need to unlock the feat, though.  The only reason to put more than about 50 points in would be if you plan to use throwing knives a whole lot.  For grenades, 30-50 is absolutely enough.

There are no diminishing returns for stats, directly, but there are points where your success rate from your skills is as high as the game will allow.  For a SMG build, you're going to want probably 10ish points of Per and a lot of Dex so your SMG AP cost is low and you can spray bullets all over everything.  Check the wiki for the AP cost breakpoints you're going to want based on what weapon you plan to use: http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dexterity    Check out those charts which are by default minimized.

[Faeren]

Thanks, the Steam guide is very comprehensive. One other thing I wanted to ask is if builds without defensive stats are viable? The original build I'd seen put no points in dodge/evasion and seemingly relied on tactical vests + mobility + quickly killing enemies in order to avoid damage, though it was several years old, is this approach still viable or would it likely lead to getting mulched later in the game?

[Bruno]

Thanks, the Steam guide is very comprehensive. One other thing I wanted to ask is if builds without defensive stats are viable? The original build I'd seen put no points in dodge/evasion and seemingly relied on tactical vests + mobility + quickly killing enemies in order to avoid damage, though it was several years old, is this approach still viable or would it likely lead to getting mulched later in the game?

It depends how you want to play, and what difficulty.
If you have no defensive skills and 3 constitution, you will probably die quite a few times. Especially when you are learning the game. If you play on Hard difficulty, you will die quite a lot. If you dont mind reloading from time to time and trying a different approach when you die, you could live with being a glass cannon. For a more careful approach with as few reloads as possible, you will need some kind of defense to avoid too many reloads.

Stealth+mobility+good alpha strike will work well normally to keep you alive, and is also a fun way to play. But some times you are placed in a situation where stealth is unavailable, like dialogue-initiated combat, being bumped out of stealth by a critter, or simply screwing up your timing. Then you have to rely on having good enough initiative to go first.

Another danger to a fragile character are explosives. Even with good perception you will probably step on the occational landmine. If you have 3 constitution, play on Hard mode (halves HP!) and no Evasion skill (defends against explosions) = instant reload. The same applies if an enemy manages to throw a decent handgrenade in your face.

And a final danger to all characters are enemies with good stealth, you generally need to be of high level (affects detection) to see them before they see you, unless you go all in on stealth and detection from the start. Then they will be the ones to perform the alpha strike on your poor unprotected flesh, and unless you know there are stealthy dangers you will probably have a fatal experience.

For a stealthy spec ops kind of guy, I'd max out the evasion skill, taking the Paranoia feat, and maybe also Nimble. That would help a lot with the above mentioned dangers.

[TheAverageGortsby]

One other thing I wanted to ask is if builds without defensive stats are viable? The original build I'd seen put no points in dodge/evasion and seemingly relied on tactical vests + mobility + quickly killing enemies in order to avoid damage, though it was several years old, is this approach still viable or would it likely lead to getting mulched later in the game?

It's very important to have some strong defensive ability for your character, but the defense options are more varied than perhaps you would think at first.

Stealth is enormously powerful.  I rarely play characters with stealth because it trivializes something close to 90% of the game. OTOH, if you're having a hard time with the game, be stealthy and you'll sail on through.  Stealth is an incredible defense because if they don't know you're there, they can't kill you.

Psi is enormously powerful.  I really like playing psi characters but it's almost as potent as stealth and there are skill synergies that really do trivialize nearly any part of the game.  Psi is an incredible defense because it can make you impossible to hit, it can stop enemies from attacking, it has so many tricks up its sleeve.

Crafting is enormously powerful.  If you can craft at a high skill level, you can make better stuff than any other items you'll find in the game.  The broad variety of things that you can craft means that whatever your play style may be, you can craft excellent gear to reinforce that style.  Maybe you want quad-plated armor that bullets and claws bounce right off of; maybe you want a sneaky trenchcoat and a cloaking device so nobody can find you; maybe you want devastating traps and powerful grenades.  Whatever you like to do in the game, crafting lets you do it better.

Dodge/Evasion is a good defense.  They're not enormously powerful but they're a passive defense unlike psi and stack with any other defenses you have, unlike stealth.

Line of sight and AI manipulation are good defenses.  They're situational but they're almost perfect defense when applicable.  However, use of these does require that you already have some good knowledge about the game and how it works.

There may be others; it's early and the coffee hasn't really kicked in yet.  But my point is, you do need some defensive ability because UnderRail is a dangerous place.  But there are a lot of ways to get enough defense to make it through the game on any difficulty.

[Faeren]

Thanks a lot for the advice, is there an Underrail IRC/Discord server by any chance that would be more suited to small questions? I found a thread about a Discord server from last September but from the looks of it that didn't take off.

[mattu]

I'm not aware of any chat hub specific to UnderRail.

No harm in posting small questions here. Maybe roll em up into the same thread, but I think the regulars will see a new comment anywhere here in General.

[Faeren]

Fair enough, I think I'm set for now though one last thing would be: Is there any shop accessible relatively early that reliably sells Bullet Strap Belts? Similarly to Utility Belts being sold reliably by one of the small vendor stalls in Scrapyard. I'm planning to set my build up so I can fire 3 bursts and reload in the same turn instead of having to carry 2 SMGs, I've been looking for one everywhere but can't find any.

[mattu]

I don't believe there is any vendor in the game that carries them guaranteed. One will turn up eventually, but you might have to wait a while.

I'm 99% sure I've seen Old Jonas carry them. In the early game he's worth stopping by every time the vendors reset, he often has a piece or two of uncommon loot.

I think I've seen Colton and/or Gort (Junkyard) carry them. Nothing you can rely on, sorry.