Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help [Resolved]

[TheAverageGortsby]

I could ignore dodge/evasion and put more on Intimidation or Persuasion...

Don't go any deeper into Persuasion than about 110 effective. As a matter of fact, if you're willing to micromanage your gear, then you wouldn't even need to go higher than about 87 effective.  But since you've said several times you don't want to min/max, there's no point in making you micromanage the tiny details.

Similarly, if you invest in Intimidation, you can get by with about 50 effective skill - the highest threshold you probably need to hit is around 100 and there's a lot of gear that can help out with Intimidation.

Both Intimidation and Persuasion have very large potential effects from a story perspective, but they aren't as obvious as the "soft" skills in Fallout were.  Still, if you really want to see all the game has to offer, you're going to need a fair bit of Persuasion, and a little bit of Intimidation as well.

[Ramen_os]

I could ignore dodge/evasion and put more on Intimidation or Persuasion...

Don't go any deeper into Persuasion than about 110 effective. As a matter of fact, if you're willing to micromanage your gear, then you wouldn't even need to go higher than about 87 effective.  But since you've said several times you don't want to min/max, there's no point in making you micromanage the tiny details.

Similarly, if you invest in Intimidation, you can get by with about 50 effective skill - the highest threshold you probably need to hit is around 100 and there's a lot of gear that can help out with Intimidation.

Both Intimidation and Persuasion have very large potential effects from a story perspective, but they aren't as obvious as the "soft" skills in Fallout were.  Still, if you really want to see all the game has to offer, you're going to need a fair bit of Persuasion, and a little bit of Intimidation as well.

Thanks for the advice. Yep, I really think I'm going to build a mage with great stealth, who knows how to hack/lockpick and with some speech skills. I will forget dodge/evasion and will put some points for grenades step by step. Hopefully, this will work.

And yes, I stop thinking only 2 schools of psy are good to know,I will learn the 3 of them.

[Ramen_os]

Updated build: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?FAMHCAMDDgcAHgAAMgBaaVUAAAAAAABaS25uZCMAYSQrPxQqFmQjZ0FmIQ

Should be fun. I won't really dodge very well but I can hurt enemies extremely wells and facilitate my life with intimidation/persuasion, should be fun.

[Ramen_os]

With this new build, I won't be able to find any hidden passage with secret oddity items. I'm just afraid it may be tough to progress that way... What do you think?

With Expedition - which you've said is what you're building this character for - there are enough buffs that you'll be able to find most secrets even with 3 Perception.

Since the character builder now shows Expedition content for everyone, let me just suggest a different character build for you.  It's still very stealthy since you seem to want that, but now it's a much better psi build and has enormous crafting potential.  With this build (which I've used without stealth a couple times in the alpha testing of Expedition, and can guarantee is a solid build) you will have no trouble bringing enough power and possibility to every single encounter to beat it.  Sure, you may die a few times, but you might with any build - this build has enough tools in its toolbox that once you learn from your mistakes, you'll be able to try different approaches until you get one right.  And after a very short time, you'll stop making mistakes because you'll know exactly what your character can do - which will be a lot.

suggested build: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgMDAwYDEAoAHgAAAAB4UF8AAEZQHjxGS8KgwqA8MgBBUCQrPxQqLmQ9IcKIwoffvw

You can see there are 2 stat points, 75 skill points, and six feats unallocated.  That should be plenty of room for you to slip in other things for your character to do.  If you've really got your heart set on Grenadier, you could pull one point out of Will and still get the 6 Dex you need.  But in my experience, a good psi build doesn't need anything else; it certainly doesn't need *improved* anything else, like Grenadier or Quick Tinkering.  But if you really want those things, you can still run 14 Will and get them both.

And thank you for this one. Yes, having a new psy skill changes stuff a bit more ^^.

But in terms of technology, do I need Chemistry and Biology?

[TheAverageGortsby]

But in terms of technology, do I need Chemistry and Biology?

Well, no. You don't need either of them.  But I'd like to make a case for why you should have a little bit of both.

If you can just get your effective Chemistry up to 40 briefly, that'll let you make stacks of thermite grenades.  Thermite is nice because it's a lot more damage than your basic molotov, and also lighter.  When you're loading up for that long trip into DC, it's nice to save as much weight as you can.  Also, if your can buff your effective Chemistry up to 40, that means you probably run around with 25 or more, meaning you can make gas grenades.  There are a few places where having gas grenades can be the difference between OMG THIS IS BULLCRAP THIS FIGHT IS IMPOSSIBLE and just winning with no trouble.  I recommended a Chemistry score that easily gets you to 60 with just an Under Pie buff, so you could make Napalm C grenades, but you can pull more then a dozen points out and still be able to buff up to 40.

Biology will let you cook custom drugs and stims that are very difficult to obtain.  The magic number you want is usually either 100, 115, or 130 - that's the threshold for Super Health Hypos, Regenerative Mixture, and Super Soldier Drug, respectively.  At the very least, I'd encourage you to keep your Bio up at least to 70 effective so you can make your own Hypercrebrix (+2 INT) and Trance (increase psi crit damage by 100%).  You could pull back 25 points and still be able to buff up to 70 effective.  Even if you really don't want to make your own drugs, though, you're still going to need some Biology so you can make use of the Psi Beetle/Psi Crab carapaces when you're making your own armor.

[Ramen_os]

But in terms of technology, do I need Chemistry and Biology?

Well, no. You don't need either of them.  But I'd like to make a case for why you should have a little bit of both.

If you can just get your effective Chemistry up to 40 briefly, that'll let you make stacks of thermite grenades.  Thermite is nice because it's a lot more damage than your basic molotov, and also lighter.  When you're loading up for that long trip into DC, it's nice to save as much weight as you can.  Also, if your can buff your effective Chemistry up to 40, that means you probably run around with 25 or more, meaning you can make gas grenades.  There are a few places where having gas grenades can be the difference between OMG THIS IS BULLCRAP THIS FIGHT IS IMPOSSIBLE and just winning with no trouble.  I recommended a Chemistry score that easily gets you to 60 with just an Under Pie buff, so you could make Napalm C grenades, but you can pull more then a dozen points out and still be able to buff up to 40.

Biology will let you cook custom drugs and stims that are very difficult to obtain.  The magic number you want is usually either 100, 115, or 130 - that's the threshold for Super Health Hypos, Regenerative Mixture, and Super Soldier Drug, respectively.  At the very least, I'd encourage you to keep your Bio up at least to 70 effective so you can make your own Hypercrebrix (+2 INT) and Trance (increase psi crit damage by 100%).  You could pull back 25 points and still be able to buff up to 70 effective.  Even if you really don't want to make your own drugs, though, you're still going to need some Biology so you can make use of the Psi Beetle/Psi Crab carapaces when you're making your own armor.

Thank you for the clarification .

So I re-arranged a bit the build I thought about:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMFCAUDDwcAHgAAAABuaWMAAAAARkZaS25uMmQ9ACthJD8UKmQuIyFnZt-_

Most important for me is:

• To be a very strong "mage" and have the possibility to one shot some enemies
• Being able to open/hack 95% closets/chests of the game
• Being able to persuade almost everyone and intimidate some dude I will meet if necessary
• Have the most important basic skills for craft (special grenades, psi boosters, health and armor

For base points:
- I may prefer to keep my CON at 5, just in order to have a minimum of life in case of.
- WILL at 10 to start then I will update it whenever I can
- INT at 7
- AGI at 8 for stealth and initiative

What do you think? Is this a viable build?

[newageofpower]

None of your feats seem to require AGI and you have 0 points in Dodge/Evasion; if all you want is Initiative I would take 1-2 points from AGI to pump DEX to 6 or 7 for Trigger Happy and/or Gunslinger.

[Ramen_os]

None of your feats seem to require AGI and you have 0 points in Dodge/Evasion; if all you want is Initiative I would take 1-2 points from AGI to pump DEX to 6 or 7 for Trigger Happy and/or Gunslinger.

As I won't have high CON or high dodge/evasion, I also count on stealth to avoid some tough fights. Would that not require a good score in AGI? Because with Psi skills, my life points will be reduced twice in the game (including the DLC), no?

I don't plan to use pistols, only psi and grenades.

[TheAverageGortsby]

So I re-arranged a bit the build I thought about:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMFCAUDDwcAHgAAAABuaWMAAAAARkZaS25uMmQ9ACthJD8UKmQuIyFnZt-_

Most important for me is:

• To be a very strong "mage" and have the possibility to one shot some enemies
• Being able to open/hack 95% closets/chests of the game
• Being able to persuade almost everyone and intimidate some dude I will meet if necessary
• Have the most important basic skills for craft (special grenades, psi boosters, health and armor

What do you think? Is this a viable build?

Viable as in capable of winning the game? Sure.  But it still needs work.

Your two main psi skills are 25 points below cap, and you're going to notice that.  Fortunately, your Persuasion and Intimitation are too high; take them down to 55 and 50 real points, respectively, and top off those two psi schools.

I don't understand your stat loadout at all.  Taking two pints from Agi, putting on ein Dex and one in Con, would give you a much better set of available feats, and better survivability, and better everything honestly.  Just do that.  Do that and take Fast Metabolism and Grenadier.  The small hit to stealth you take won't be anything you notice, especially since you'll be able to craft some stealth gear.

Honestly, though, I'd take all 110 points out of Stealth.  I'd put them in Electronics and some in Mechanics (which you're going to need for your tac vest crafting) and when it comes time that you need to be sneaky, I'd just rely on a cloaking field generator.  At high item quality levels, you can get +80 to stealth from the generator, and another +50 or so from gear no problem.  That'll do for ya.  If you really want stealth, then you can probably just take 25 points out.  Because you are going to need some Electronics and some Mechanics just to craft your tac vests.  For example, look at this.  This is a high-quality (but not at all max-quality) tac vest with its crafting requirements.  This is the sort of vest you'd want for a psi character, though maybe with different cloth depending on your tastes:

[Ramen_os]

So I re-arranged a bit the build I thought about:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMFCAUDDwcAHgAAAABuaWMAAAAARkZaS25uMmQ9ACthJD8UKmQuIyFnZt-_

Most important for me is:

• To be a very strong "mage" and have the possibility to one shot some enemies
• Being able to open/hack 95% closets/chests of the game
• Being able to persuade almost everyone and intimidate some dude I will meet if necessary
• Have the most important basic skills for craft (special grenades, psi boosters, health and armor

What do you think? Is this a viable build?

Viable as in capable of winning the game? Sure.  But it still needs work.

Your two main psi skills are 25 points below cap, and you're going to notice that.  Fortunately, your Persuasion and Intimitation are too high; take them down to 55 and 50 real points, respectively, and top off those two psi schools.

I don't understand your stat loadout at all.  Taking two pints from Agi, putting on ein Dex and one in Con, would give you a much better set of available feats, and better survivability, and better everything honestly.  Just do that.  Do that and take Fast Metabolism and Grenadier.  The small hit to stealth you take won't be anything you notice, especially since you'll be able to craft some stealth gear.

Honestly, though, I'd take all 110 points out of Stealth.  I'd put them in Electronics and some in Mechanics (which you're going to need for your tac vest crafting) and when it comes time that you need to be sneaky, I'd just rely on a cloaking field generator.  At high item quality levels, you can get +80 to stealth from the generator, and another +50 or so from gear no problem.  That'll do for ya.  If you really want stealth, then you can probably just take 25 points out.  Because you are going to need some Electronics and some Mechanics just to craft your tac vests.  For example, look at this.  This is a high-quality (but not at all max-quality) tac vest with its crafting requirements.  This is the sort of vest you'd want for a psi character, though maybe with different cloth depending on your tastes:

Thanks. I hear you well and this advice makes sense. However, I have some concerns. Back earlier on the topic discussion, I remember you strongly suggest me to have a way to resist against enemies i will meet and these 3 ways are:

• Having a lot of life points (won't be my case if i have 6 CON)
• Being a king in terms of dodge/evasion (not my case either)
• Being sneaky when hard time will come

[/list]
I was counting on the 3rd one. What I read is that I can increase my stealth enough with 2 specific items even if I have 0 stealth. But would that be enough?

And thanks again for copy/paste an example of vest crafting, this gives me a good idea.

My god, it's not easy to create a character


An updated build would look like this then: better @TheAverageGortsby? I still have 3 feats to choose but still don't know where...
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GgMGBgYDDwcAHgAAAAA8ZGMAAEU8PEZaS3t8Mjc3ACthJD_CgxQqZC5mISNn378

[newageofpower]

You don't actually need to use a pistol, just holding it when combat starts will give you a significant buff to Initiative.

FFS Trigger Happy is +6 and Gunslinger is +7; so you'd get the equivalent of 13 points of stat-based initiative without any further specializations, and that's not counting the fact DEX is also an initiative stat like AGI, so you've lost 0 initiative.

If you're going to have 8 AGI you might as well max Evasion at minimum and I'd recommend going to 60 Dodge so you can take Uncanny, but you'll have to cut skills somewhere else to make it up.

[TheAverageGortsby]

An updated build would look like this then: better @TheAverageGortsby?

No, really, no, it's not.  I have to tell you, honestly, it feels like you aren't taking the advice people are giving you so much as using this thread as a sounding board for your own ideas, and you're bouncing all over the place.  And that's fine; don't think I'm suggesting that isn't fine.  But you're just ignoring so many basic concepts that I honestly don't even know how to help.

Look.  A week ago in this thread I suggested a build.  I'm going to suggest it again, but then I'm done.  Here's the build:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgMDAwYDEAoAHgAAAAB4UF8AAEZQHjxGS8KgwqA8MgBBUCQrPxQqLmQ9IcKIwoffvw

That's it.  That's the build.  That's the best build. That's the best possible psi build for what you've said you want.  You wanted sneaky?  It's sneaky.  You wanted to craft things?  It can craft almost everything.  You wanted grenades?  You've got just enough throwing.  You can persuade, you can buy the best stuff from merchants, you can hack all the computers, pick all the locks.  You can hit every threshold in the game with a bare minimum of buffs.  You can do all the things.  Assign the stat and skill points that are left over - you've got enough to put 50 in Intimidation (which will let you intimidate as well as persuade) and still have a few left over to shore up any weak points you think you see.  Assign the feats that you want.  But know that any changes you make to that build will only make it worse.*

You're overthinking this.  Put together a character and play.  You'll do just fine =)

*If you really wanted Grenadier & Quick Tinkering, or if you really wanted Interloper, you could pull INT down to 8, and get the stat (DEX or AGI) that you needed to pick up those feats.  However, you'd then need to assign some extra points to the seven skills you have which scale from INT.  Still, if you think you're going to need it - which you won't - you can do it.

[Ramen_os]

No, really, no, it's not.  I have to tell you, honestly, it feels like you aren't taking the advice people are giving you so much as using this thread as a sounding board for your own ideas, and you're bouncing all over the place.  And that's fine; don't think I'm suggesting that isn't fine.  But you're just ignoring so many basic concepts that I honestly don't even know how to help.

I'm really sorry if it feels that way. I actually took a serious look at all your suggestions but sometimes it's not easy to know completely what you really want =). All your advice are super useful and I read them with big attention. Again, sorry if it felt that way, that was not my purpose.

You're overthinking this.  Put together a character and play.  You'll do just fine =)

You know what? I thinks that's the true problem. I love RPG, I have been playing a lot of CRPG on the past. But I was traumatized by my 1st run on Underrail when I realized on the last zone that my build was not offensive enough, after a good 70 hours of game (unfortunately, I don't have 25h/week to play video game anymore, that's why I asked for help )

I think your suggested build is really great. I guess I was a bit obsessed by the stats but having a great mage who can resolve conflicts by the speech is the most important. And I can see I will have some points available for intimidation too :-)

Again, thank you and everyone with your advice, I should be able to start my lets play soon!

[Wintermute]

@TheAverageGortsby

First off, thanks for the detailed explanations. I've seen you around these forums and your understanding of the game and psi-builds is incredibly helpful for 'new to psi' folks like me.

I really like the look of the build you recommended to ramenos. I'm going to give it a shot, do you have any advice in terms of skill progression for a playthrough on Normal w/Oddity?

What skills should I focus on in 1-10, 10-20, 20-30?

Do I generally put a few points into hacking, lockpicking, persuasion and mercantile each level to stay at pace with the progressively more difficult checks?

Are there any key points where I should have crafting or a non-fighting skill up to a certain level? Ex. You mentioned stocking up on Thermite grenades before heading down to DC.

Thanks, appreciate the responses here. Looking forward to the new Psi build.

[Ramen_os]

@TheAverageGortsby

First off, thanks for the detailed explanations. I've seen you around these forums and your understanding of the game and psi-builds is incredibly helpful for 'new to psi' folks like me.

I really like the look of the build you recommended to ramenos. I'm going to give it a shot, do you have any advice in terms of skill progression for a playthrough on Normal w/Oddity?

What skills should I focus on in 1-10, 10-20, 20-30?

Do I generally put a few points into hacking, lockpicking, persuasion and mercantile each level to stay at pace with the progressively more difficult checks?

Are there any key points where I should have crafting or a non-fighting skill up to a certain level? Ex. You mentioned stocking up on Thermite grenades before heading down to DC.

Thanks, appreciate the responses here. Looking forward to the new Psi build.

Correct me if I'm wrong but he recommended to play in Oddity mod.