Author Topic: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help [Resolved]  (Read 18822 times)

Ramen_os

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Hi everyone,

With the extension coming at the end of the month, I will start a new run. In order to suffer a bit less than the previous one, I would like to do a Psy build but something relatively efficient (without doing min/max like a perfectionist). Is it possible to have a solid psy build who knows how to use sub machine guns?

What do you think about this build (level 1)?
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQQEBAUECgkPDwAAAAAADw8AAAAAAAAAAA8PAAAAwqM2

Also, based on your experience and all updates that happened on the past 2-3 years, can I play in classic mod?

In advance, thanks a lot for your help/feedback :)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 07:10:08 pm by ramenos »

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2019, 09:55:24 pm »
In brief, no. A solid psi build requires heavy investment in Will and doesn't leave much for Perception. Even if you put four of your six ability points into Perception, your Guns score isn't going to be high enough to really be a strong damage source for you.  Then, of course, you'd only have at most 12 Will, which isn't great for psi since psi scales pretty heavily off of your stat.

If you really want to do both psi and SMGs, then I'd suggest you shoot for 12 Per and 14 Will, starting with both of them at 10 at level 1.  That'll give you fairly strong effective skill levels throughout.  The problem with that of course is that it doesn't leave much room for Dexterity, so your AP cost for using the SMGs will be high. But assuming you're not playing on the hardest difficulty, you'll be fine.  (edit: Still, on reflection, I can't recommend it.  The problem with SMG builds is that they require two high stats, and neither of those are any use for psi.  So you'd need three high stats, and it's just not possible to have three high stats in UnderRail.  If you absolutely must have guns as a backup for psi, go with ARs.  They're much more forgiving.  You just need a little bit of Str and some Per; no need to take Dex above 3.)

Classic mode is fine.  Oddity mode is fine.  Play whichever one you think you'd prefer more.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 10:00:41 pm by TheAverageGortsby »

newageofpower

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2019, 04:56:02 am »
Well, with the new Temporal Abilities you can just use Psi as a way to buff yourself and focus on your DEX/PER for SMG facerolling. I don't think it's efficient especially given the -25% HP from taking The Pill, but its an option.

Shredded Cheddar

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 03:30:37 pm »
Build is trash.

Leaving attributes at 4 is garbage, it does nothing for you. The main reason to pump a stat is to unlock feats. I know you "don't want to min/max" but the way your build is it will not be very fun because you will be so weak.

You have 9 int with 0 crafting skills, the fuck? If you are not crafting I would suggest dumping int and putting those stats elsewhere

Snooping with 4 per unlocks like 2 secrets in the very first mission, waste of a feat slot. You either have a decent amount of per or you don't - snooping is pretty useless.

Versatility with low weapon skills is not going to benefit you. Since your per is only 4 you get absolutely no bonus to guns. By the time you are level 25, you will have 135 guns skills which isn't very good, and your versatility bonus will be like ~80 points into melee and crossbows, which will allow you to do absolutely nothing useful with those weapons except against enemies that you were able to kill at level 6.

You want the skill that governs your weapon to be much higher than 4 if you don't want to be weak as shit. The difference between 4 and 10 in perception is over a 50% boost in your guns skill, which is not only going to be more damage but much greater chance to hit as well.

My suggested stats would be something like -

STR: 3
DEX: 9
AGI: 6
CON: 3
PER: 8
WILL: 8
INT: 3

and then you can throw your additional points wherever you want really.

Dex 9 - gets you 16AP bursts on rapid 7.62 jaguar smg, which allows 3 per turn
Agi 6 - gets sprint and spec ops - spec ops is vital for smg build
Per 8 - decent aim, nothing special but can boost with weapon mods (if you keep snooping and never raise this you can find all secrets currently in game I believe)
Will 8 - decent psi skill and unlocks some feats, only 2 points to get to Locus of Control

The way to go with leveling this character up IMO is 2 points into will to unlock LOC & 3 points into INT if you want premeditation and some crafting skills, otherwise raise the stat the is in charge of your main way to deal damage.

This is a game that rewards specialization and min/maxing. Doing Several things decently in this game is just not that good, because against powerful opponents, of which there are many, those skills will not help you. Sorry, it's just how the game is made. I am not saying you can't make a decent psi/smg build, and I am not saying you can't win with it on dominating/oddity mode, but I am saying that the way the build is now is very inefficient and you are in for a bad time. I would suggest planning your character past level one as well, until at least about level 12 so you have a general idea of how the character is going to grow.

Fenix

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2019, 07:44:29 pm »
Snooping with 4 per unlocks like 2 secrets in the very first mission, waste of a feat slot. You either have a decent amount of per or you don't - snooping is pretty useless.

Not exactly - with adaptive goggles and food it will be 9 - almost all secrets in game.

This is a game that rewards specialization and min/maxing.

In most cases, yes, but Versatility was introduced specifically for such strange builds. You can do weird stuff with it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 07:46:27 pm by Fenix »

Shredded Cheddar

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2019, 04:52:21 pm »
Fenix, good point about the food, I forgot they added the Per buff food.

On the second point though, I am not saying that versatility is useless or unusable, I am just saying with only 4-10 points in your attack stat, you will only have between 80 and 120 something skill points in the other two weapon skills by level 25, which would only be useful for trash mobs at that point. It is best utilized on builds that pump str, dex, or per to 16.

kpetah

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 12:07:04 am »
I'm going to make a new char to play the dlc, but I dont know until where I need to go on to enjoy the DLC.
I fear being too strong or weak for it.

Anyone have a hint which level is the best do fully enjoy there ?

bati

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 07:13:28 am »
In most cases, yes, but Versatility was introduced specifically for such strange builds. You can do weird stuff with it.

Offensive skills without feats to supports them are still severely underpowered though. Maybe you could get by with sledges for melee and ARs for guns since they don't require heavy feat investment.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 10:09:50 am by bati »

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 10:47:33 am »
I'm going to make a new char to play the dlc, but I dont know until where I need to go on to enjoy the DLC.
I fear being too strong or weak for it.

Anyone have a hint which level is the best do fully enjoy there ?
The official recommendation is level 15+.  I can tell you that on DOMINATING, I didn't start the DLC content with one character until level 29, and I still didn't feel the least bit like I had out-levelled the content in several locations.  Starting anywhere from 15-20 should be just fine to keep the challenge high in the Black Sea.

Fenix

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 03:51:19 pm »
Fenix, good point about the food, I forgot they added the Per buff food.

On the second point though, I am not saying that versatility is useless or unusable, I am just saying with only 4-10 points in your attack stat, you will only have between 80 and 120 something skill points in the other two weapon skills by level 25, which would only be useful for trash mobs at that point. It is best utilized on builds that pump str, dex, or per to 16.

Yep, but you could do SMG-build with 3 Per and maxxxxxxxxxed Dex and melee. You obviously won't get all feats because of Per, but you can get all key feats for it. Crazy building, I know.

Ramen_os

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 12:48:53 am »
Build is trash.

Leaving attributes at 4 is garbage, it does nothing for you. The main reason to pump a stat is to unlock feats. I know you "don't want to min/max" but the way your build is it will not be very fun because you will be so weak.

You have 9 int with 0 crafting skills, the fuck? If you are not crafting I would suggest dumping int and putting those stats elsewhere

Snooping with 4 per unlocks like 2 secrets in the very first mission, waste of a feat slot. You either have a decent amount of per or you don't - snooping is pretty useless.

Versatility with low weapon skills is not going to benefit you. Since your per is only 4 you get absolutely no bonus to guns. By the time you are level 25, you will have 135 guns skills which isn't very good, and your versatility bonus will be like ~80 points into melee and crossbows, which will allow you to do absolutely nothing useful with those weapons except against enemies that you were able to kill at level 6.

You want the skill that governs your weapon to be much higher than 4 if you don't want to be weak as shit. The difference between 4 and 10 in perception is over a 50% boost in your guns skill, which is not only going to be more damage but much greater chance to hit as well.

My suggested stats would be something like -

STR: 3
DEX: 9
AGI: 6
CON: 3
PER: 8
WILL: 8
INT: 3

and then you can throw your additional points wherever you want really.

Dex 9 - gets you 16AP bursts on rapid 7.62 jaguar smg, which allows 3 per turn
Agi 6 - gets sprint and spec ops - spec ops is vital for smg build
Per 8 - decent aim, nothing special but can boost with weapon mods (if you keep snooping and never raise this you can find all secrets currently in game I believe)
Will 8 - decent psi skill and unlocks some feats, only 2 points to get to Locus of Control

The way to go with leveling this character up IMO is 2 points into will to unlock LOC & 3 points into INT if you want premeditation and some crafting skills, otherwise raise the stat the is in charge of your main way to deal damage.

This is a game that rewards specialization and min/maxing. Doing Several things decently in this game is just not that good, because against powerful opponents, of which there are many, those skills will not help you. Sorry, it's just how the game is made. I am not saying you can't make a decent psi/smg build, and I am not saying you can't win with it on dominating/oddity mode, but I am saying that the way the build is now is very inefficient and you are in for a bad time. I would suggest planning your character past level one as well, until at least about level 12 so you have a general idea of how the character is going to grow.

Thank everyone.

And thanks for these long answer. Again, the build you saw is just level 1.

I want to craft on the game for sure but I want to be able to have fun by exploring. Psy build is the main focus but I like to open all chests and closets and steal everything :D.

If (all) of you think it's garbage to play a psy build with a smg/rifle, what would you suggest? I would like to attack my enemies with some distance.

Thank you and sorry for the late answer.

Ramen_os

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 12:55:40 am »
Would a build like this be better?

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMGAwMGCgkPDwAAAAAADw8AAA8AAAAPAA8PAAAAJ0g

Maybe I should be more precise in terms of what kind of build I want to play (if possible):

Major:
Offensive psy
Craft & Great Speech
Lock/Hack

Secondary
Pistol (or distance weapon)
Grenade

Does that make sense? And again, sorry if my build sucks. This game is hard (I suffered a lot during my 1st run) so that's why I need useful feedback from all you.

Thanks !  :)

harperfan7

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2019, 01:00:07 am »
Here, breeze your way through the game on dominating.
edit:  ignore snooping and pick feats in whatever order makes sense to you
*eurobeat intensifies*

Quidam Craft

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 01:59:49 am »
Would a build like this be better?

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMGAwMGCgkPDwAAAAAADw8AAA8AAAAPAA8PAAAAJ0g

Maybe I should be more precise in terms of what kind of build I want to play (if possible):

Major:
Offensive psy
Craft & Great Speech
Lock/Hack

Secondary
Pistol (or distance weapon)
Grenade

Does that make sense? And again, sorry if my build sucks. This game is hard (I suffered a lot during my 1st run) so that's why I need useful feedback from all you.

Thanks !  :)

Well, there is a lot to say on your build, but actually you lack some knowledge about the game to be proefficient with your build. Let's try to give you the good advices.

Packrathound at level 1 is pretty useless, even if I kinda like the trait on a STR 3 character, you won't need this trait so early.
Plus, Packrathound tend to be important for trappers builds that have to carry A LOT of heavy traps. You won't need it much since you have PSI that weight basicaly nothing to be efficient.

Clothier, also useless at level 1. Among all the crafting trait, maybe one of the less important. Yet it has its usefullness with a ninja build with very high stealth (To craft great bataclava and nice overcoat), since you don't have agility, it does not seem to be your goal here.
And, a crafting trait at level 1 is maybe not usefull as well, you won't be able to craft good things yet.

About Intel, 9 is not really proper. I would drop to 7.
At 7 you have all the crafting feats, so it should be enough.

About Constitution and Agility at 3.
In Underrail there is mainly three ways to avoid being killed.
1 - Having high constitution and strenght to have high armor and HP to resist damages.
2 - Having high agility to have great dodge and evasion to evade all attacks
3 - Having high agility to have stealth and very powerfull attacks to be able to oneshot people and take down enemies one by one.
3,5 - Having the ability to kite (NOT EASY TO DO SUCCESSFULLY) but it require some strange builds.

Sadly, you don't have any means to protect yourself and survive more than one turn against bad guys with let's say guns.

About the way you put yours stats. I think you first put your stats, and then check what feat you can take.
You should do otherwise. You look for the feats you want, and you check what stats you'll need. Then, you'll see how many stats points you have left to spare.

Before doing any builds, you should :
1 - Aim for a good way to deal damages, and put 10 in the relevant stat.
2 - Having a proper defense mechanism
3 - See what you have left and see if you can take any Lockpicking/Hacking/Crafting/Speech.

So ... Here are for the general advices.

***

Concerning your specific request.

The first solution is to forget about using a gun and do this :
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMHBwMDCgcADwAAAAAPDw8AAAAPAAAPAA8PAAAAYSQ

So to explain a bit :
7 Intelligence is enough you can get all the crafting feats. And you'll get hacking as well.
10 Will since it will be your main damage dealing with psi. Put every points there afterward, don't think to much first.
7 agility will give you Stealth and Defense
7 Dexterity will give you lockpicking and throwing.
(You can also put 8 in agility and 6 in dexterity, could work better)

Nimble - Really good as you'll aim for armor with low armor penalty (Less that 15) to have stealth and dodge/evasion, and you should be able to craft some good stuff out of Infused Siphoner Leather. (Look on the wiki what you can do as an armor with 15% armor penalty maximum.
Surestep - Personnal advice here. Depot B is a pain in the ass and it will help you a lot against acid. Plus, with caltrops that are unexpensive and easy to find, you can really cheese a lot of fights.
Just use caltrops to a. prepare a fight b. flee c. kill enemies on their patrol route (Work well on bots in Omega)
Don't forget you can throw the caltrops at your feet for 100% precision.

Then, what will you do past the first few levels.
You'll get psy empathy asap and get PSI to kill enemies.
And you'll have to :
1 - Craft a good energy shield
2 - Craft a good armor
3 - Craft / Find good grenades to be dangerous

Aim for feats like :
Grenadier (OP), Force User (Force field are OP, Kinetinetic Punch is very strong), Premeditation (OP as hell)

Don't forget, as well, with Force User, and Telekinetic Proxy + Telekinetic Punch you can usually one shot a lot of bad guys.
Used in combination with stealth, you can kill lonely guard in a compound to make the rest of the fight easy enough.

to have something like this at level 10
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?CgMHBwMDDAcAHgAAPDw8IzwAAAAAAAA3ADw8AAAAYSQrPxQqFmQ

After level 10, you can take all the crafting things you want and further take more PSI feats.
You could also, forget about Metathermics, and go with thought control, in order to get Locus of Control at level 14.
It's OP as well, but I think you could manage without it.

***

If you REALLY want to have a gun ... Well I have to think about a strange unusual build ... Challenge accepted ! I'll build something potent enough for normal.

EDIT :
Ok, I thought about it and I came with this build, however I'm not sure I would recommand it for anything else than easy !
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GAgHBgMDDAZubgAAAAAAAAAAAHgAAAAAbm4AAAAAKxcmOSgUKlsRIUUWPjok

It has psy for main offense. Psychokinesis for stuns and high damage through force user. Premeditation because you'll need it. And well ... Thought Control and Locus of Control, because it's OP and you'll need everything OP to get through with that kind of build.
It has a pistol for initiative through gunslider and "backup" with execute and rapid fire. Yes there is no perception, I know and I don't care ... Since you'll use the pistol on stun or otherwise incapacited targets meaning they won't have any evasion  (Plan to use Flashnades, Electrokinesis, Thought control, Kinetic Punch).
It has throwing and all the relevant grenade feats because well ... It won't be that easy so big ass grenades will help.
It has high strenght to be able to wear HEAVY armor and enough intelligence to make a good one.
It has enough agility to survive without armor at first (With stealth and even evasion/dodge) and have "Sprint" wich will be usefull once you'll have your heavy armor on.
I'm pretty sure you can get decent movement speed with the current agility, nimble and armor sloping with a supersteel armor.
And as a bonus, the big guy as relatively high initiative through Paranoia

Note that i'm pretty sure you can have a better build with new stuff from expedition that has to be shown yet, once confirmed i'll update accordingly the build.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 06:53:26 am by Quidam Craft »

Ramen_os

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Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2019, 09:09:27 pm »
@Quidam Craft: thank you so much for this whole explanation, I really appreciated it and I read it carefully.

Last time I played the game was 3 years ago with a build that barely reached the door before Tchort.

I'm not obsessed with gun and being able to combine psy abilities and sometimes grenades should be enough. I remember DepotB was a nightmare for my previous build (crossbow with high perception).

Based on your advice, my level 20 could look like this?
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?FAMHCAMDDgcAPAAAbm5kUFAAAAAAAABQZGQ8AAAAYSQrPxQqFmQjZ0FmIQ

I just have one last question: with a build like this (or any build with low perception), do you think it's ok to play in classic mod? Or should I still play in Oddity mod? I remember it was pain in the ass at the end when I tried to accumulate more xp because I was not able to reach more new oddities :D

Thanks again.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 09:14:01 pm by ramenos »