Author Topic: The Sledge Juggernaut  (Read 12133 times)

harperfan7

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The Sledge Juggernaut
« on: July 25, 2019, 11:04:43 pm »
Do you want to be a hulking muscleman who breaks weaklings in four?  Do you want to casually walk into a hail of gunfire while laughing because it tickles?  Do you want to sling around a 50lb chunk of metal as your primary weapon?  Do you want to pray you never encounter lunatic psychopaths?  Well do I have something for you!

The sledge juggernaut intentionally wears the heaviest possible armor.  He has a whopping ZERO move points.  He uses various stuns and incapacitations to make enemies sit still and have a nice 95% chance to hit.  He then moves up and slaughters them.  If he needs to damage at range or if enemies group themselves up nicely, he throws a grenade.  He uses corners and doors to bring enemies to him.  Nets, caltrops, tasers, bear traps, grenades/flashbangs, dirty kick, pneumatic hammer, sledge stun, and maybe cheap shots incapacitate. 

You need to make a choice at the start:  6 agility for sprint, or 6 dex for cheap shots and maybe grenadier.  Sprint ignores armor penalty, so it's your only way of ever actually moving up to enemies without using action points.  Cheap shots will give you even more crit damage and a nice incapacitation some of the time.  Also 6 dex means you can use the powerfist or other metal gloves for 15 AP, which is nice because you'll often have 15 AP left in a round after thick head turns stuns into daze and you make a sledge attack.  You'll be using grenades a lot, so grenadier will be very useful as well.

10 strength (and level ups), 10 constitution, 5 intelligence

Sledges:  pummel, super slam
Armor:  juggernaut, heavyweight
Toughness:  conditioning, fast metabolism, thick skull, last stand, improved constitution, bodybuilding
Damage:  opportunist, survival instincts, dirty kick, expose weakness, critical power
6 agility:  sprint
6 dex:  cheap shots, grenadier
"What?  Not improved strength?"  No, you'll get that from food/adrenaline/other drugs.  You're free to take it if you'd like; it won't make a huge difference. 
I plan on taking Tempered (Electricity), but it's not vital.

You'll want to max throwing and melee, and you'll want all the crafting skills.  I had lockpicking and hacking on my guy, but they aren't vital to the build or anything, so those remaining skill points are up to you.  I might suggest mercantile on dominating difficulty. 

Gear: 
Metal armor, metal boots, helmet; tungsten and solid padding in every available slot (and of course shaded visors in your helmets), with a regen vest (sturdy is okay too).  Tungsten sledge with electroshock generator, until you get a certain unique hammer.  You could use pig tabis with a tichrome sledge if you want, but you won't be immune to caltrops and your defenses will be a bit lower.  Lifting belt.  Shield emitter:  efficient x2 high frequency.  You'll have two utility slots; early on you'll want nets and grenades or a taser (caltrops should be used before combat, not during), later on you'll generally have grenades + flashbangs or taser.  You'll want a set of stealth gear for the occasional quest, or for setting up some traps before a big fight, or for taking out one or two sentries at a time without alerting an entire base.  In your off-hand, you'll want a glove with a pneumatic hammer (if 6 agility, a reinforced leather glove, if 6 dex a reinforced metal glove or the power fist).  After a certain quest, you might want to switch to a different kind of metal armor (and maybe switch out solid padding for galvanic padding) and start using efficient x2 low frequency shields. 
Your main food will be mushroom brew, so get a lot of it.

Also, there's a certain enemy type that drops a component that gives high electricity resistance on riot armors and tacvests; when you get one, put it on a galvanic vest; you'll want this against certain enemies.  Against groups of lunatics you might want to focus on armors that give more resistance to heat/cold than metal armor.  You might want mutated dog leather vs mutants.  In the expansion, you'll want other armors as well against certain enemies. 

Your mechanical DR/DT will be very high; high enough that small weapons will generally only hurt you on crits, and high enough to tank even sniper crits assuming you weren't wounded much beforehand.  You'll have a high healing rate from fast metabolism and tons of HP, with a regen vest that keeps on healing you when wounded.  On top of that, you'll also have the parenthetical resistance; 15 from conditioning, 10 from mushroom brew, and 5 from your lifting belt.  Aegis and morphine will raise this even further. 

I haven't used this character in the expansion yet, so no experience with him on jetskis yet.  I wouldn't use the unique hammer on a jetski though, I can tell you that. 

The main things to watch out for with this build are EMP's, psi attacks (especially groups of lunatics and goliaths; the dreaded mental subversion + bilocation is a real bitch, you'll want to use bullhead beforehand or get to a spot where only one can hit you at a time.  Morphine and/or last stand really help there), and getting surrounded by ranged enemies. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 11:08:50 pm by harperfan7 »
*eurobeat intensifies*

MirddinEmris

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 10:54:11 pm »
After several sledge runs, i'd say you should build your sledge differentely.

First, you don't need Cheap Shots, that's a trap, you also should forget any crit feats. You regular sledge damage with 19 Str is enough to kill most enemies in one strike even on dominating (and makes Balor's Hammer less annoying to use), so occasional crit is not very useful and armored sledges don't have many options on raising that chance to the point where it becomes something you can rely on. So, 3 Dex actually is what you need (loosing grenadier and trigger happy is not great, but whatever).

Second, Super Slam is a waste, really. Unless you are playing on easy, the damage is very meh even with juggernaught and sturdy vest and as i said, you are putting most enemies with one strike anyway and with bosses something like taser is more than enough to get the time to deal all the damage you need.

Third, playing melee with no movement points is annoying. I can't put that into words how. I mean, a lot of fights will turn into a slow slugfest, some for dozens of turns. And some will become just unwinnable (at least without a lots of savescumming), since you can't get to the PSI enemy in time.

Fourth, this build will find fighting natives more than hard. Their tactics is simple, yet effective - they are throeing nets on you, while their warriors are striking you in melee and crossbows are poisoning you with heartbreaker poison. While you can deal with swordsman and hammemrers no problem (though swordsmen will occasionally still damage you with crippling shots, which is annoying), spearmen are completely different story - they have a range on you, meaning that they can strike you while you can't strike them, they will entagnle you indefinetely (even though each one net throw lasts one turn, they have those to keep you busy for dozens of turns) and also spears ignore a good portion of you damage resist. This is almost a perfect tactics against a tincan. There will be enough of them that even grenades with grenadier will not help you much.

So i would build sledge like this:

Str: 9-10 + 6 lvl + 2 veteran feat + 1 for being an alcoholic (but in Underrail it's a good thing)
Dex,Per,Will: 3
Int: 6
Agi: 6
Con: 9-10 (depending wherever you want Thick Skull or not. Bullhead is a good drug after all).

To be honest, you can pump Con instead of Str with veteran feat and take Bodybuilding, but that would make your best weapon in the game more annoying to use, with higher miss chance. But 16 Str with a high quality shock hammer would still put most enemies to sleep with one strike on Hard (i checked obviously). You can never has enough health and at some point increasing damage hits diminishing returns. So it is more of a matter of style.

Then you put all spec to Armor Sloping, take Nimble and Body Weight Trainig and craft yourself a full set of super steel armor with spring boots. That will make your mech resist arounf 90-95% and energy resist 85-90% depending on how much you want to grind that steel. On top of that, it will make you only 54% armor penalty (59% with heavier vests like regen), which is not that much and with spring boots you can move on the battlefield very well even without sprint. No reason not to take sprint of course, it's even a good idea to put 5 points of spec into it, making you VERY fast when you need to. The only downside compared to tungsten is lower damage threshold, meaning more attacks can actually scratch you, meaning that stuff like crippling strike and poison is much more annoying than on tungsten can (though latter is not immune to it either, i know from experience). Though it is solved by having a good biology - Irongut is great.

Pummel is a truly great feat, but it shines when you put 5 spec points into it to make 0 AP attack. I don't think i need to explain why.

But i have to put important note here - after playing expedition with build like that i understood that sledgehammers are inferior to spear. First - their feats are just better. Impale is a crit on demand, which is what actually can make stuff like critical power, cheap shots and heavyweight useful, since now you can control it. Sweep is just too great, even with decreased damage, high str build can mow many enemies with one attack like this. Second they have good base abilities - spear guard (+ spear guardian on higher levels) means that even with relatively low meach threshold you can say "fuck you" to all those crippling strike bastards and other spear users that would otherwise damage you through lowered mech resist, it is also good early on against several melee enemies, like rathounds. Lowered mech resist against organic target makes some enemies less annoying (beetles, tincans, burrowers and crabs). Range is also good at least to negate advantage of other spears. The only situation sledge is better imo is against robot like enemies and when they are not in a group. Being able to craft it with energy edge is also good. Overall damage is lower than with electroshock (when fighing against group), but it's nice that after dropping flashbang to incapacitate a group around you, you don't need to worry about waking them up after one electroshock attack. You also don't need to wear lifting belt to make a 20AP attack, meaning more items on quickslots + more useful belt, i would recommend doctor's pouch so that you can eat pills like candy.

Even without spear feats i noticed that i used spear more often on my sledge build. So, you know, putting it into the words of game revuewers, 10/10 there is something for everyone. Too much water.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 11:04:06 pm by MirddinEmris »

Fenix

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2019, 03:49:42 pm »
Then you put all spec to Armor Sloping, take Nimble and Body Weight Trainig and craft yourself a full set of super steel armor with spring boots.

Or you can leart Temporal Manipulations and get PTC, which gives MP that aren't affected by armor penalty, and like, save many feats because of that. At a price of quarter of your HP of course.

MirddinEmris

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2019, 04:40:25 pm »
Then you put all spec to Armor Sloping, take Nimble and Body Weight Trainig and craft yourself a full set of super steel armor with spring boots.

Or you can leart Temporal Manipulations and get PTC, which gives MP that aren't affected by armor penalty, and like, save many feats because of that. At a price of quarter of your HP of course.

Well, not everybody likes to put psi into every build just because it's OP. Also, i found that on a heavy sledge build you have more freedom with feats (especially after forgetting crit feat traps) than with skills. To the point that i had stuff like Major Supplier, Salesman and even friggin Ballistics on my character.

Fenix

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2019, 11:06:59 pm »
Don't worry, I don't like that too.

MirddinEmris

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2019, 11:43:25 pm »
Don't worry, I don't like that too.

Well, leaving preferences aside, like you said it does cuts into your health, which is not what you generally want for a tanky character, since you gonna be in the midst of the enemies most of the time. Even with 95% mech resist, you wanna good pool of HP in that situation.

Senaattori

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2019, 05:41:06 am »
@ MirddinEmris 

How would you go about building that spear buikd of yours? I theorised something myself but Im not too sure about feat order.

MirddinEmris

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2019, 05:01:15 pm »
@ MirddinEmris 

How would you go about building that spear buikd of yours? I theorised something myself but Im not too sure about feat order.

Well i haven't played on properly yet, but from what i tested, it seems there are two ways - Dex and Str. Str seems better in damage per turn, but Dex have better synergy with side aiblities like Spear Throwing.

Anyway, you would need at least 6 Str, 6 Agi and 5 Dex and max either Dex or Str at the start (tbh, you can go with 8 Str iat the start f you want more Con). They are needed for feats Spear Guardian (increases chance to block in Spear Guard to 80%, you get to full 100% block with 2 points of specialization in that feat), Sweep (damage everyone aroung you, but damage itself is deacreased) and Fend (spend AP of attack to get more effective spear guard). Without those feats you are playing spear on half of it's effectiveness. If you go for Str, take Impale (auto critical), if you go for Dex take Spear Throw. You can take Spear Throw even on Str build, but it's not as effective, but you get a decent ranged attack which is rpetty good. If you take Spear Throw, you need to max throwing skill.

Str build should go for high armor, but it's not as tanky as sledge, since you get less points in Con. Still you have better range and protection against melee, meaning less trouble with those pesky native spearmen that like to entangle you and enemies with crippling strike, since your spear guard block plenty of melee.

Dex build should probably get Agi a bit higher (7 or 8) and go for evasion too. Dodge is not encessary except as prereqs for Uncanny Dodge if you want to take it. You are generally well protected against melee attacks anyway (except those sledge crits) if you already made an attack or used Fend.

Critical route (recklessness, weaponsmith, cheap shots and critical power) is a good way to go on both builds, but you should play around and see what exactly you want to take.

MirddinEmris

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2019, 05:04:15 pm »
A warning - you can't keep Spear Guard 100% of time. When you attack an enemy you get 2turn buff. It expires on the end of your second turn. The only way to prolong the buff is to use Fend on second turn (ehich is why it's an important feat), so generally you have 2 out of 3 enemy turns with spear guard and one without (or 50/50 if you don't have a fend), so you need to be tactical about your guard.

Correction: You can keep Spear Guard from regular attacks just fine, but if you get the buff from Fend feat, you can't renew it with normal attacks.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 08:25:39 pm by MirddinEmris »

harperfan7

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Re: The Sledge Juggernaut
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 10:36:51 pm »
Finally took this build through expedition, figured I'd show what it can do maxed out.

*eurobeat intensifies*