Author Topic: AR/Psicommando  (Read 4434 times)

Iviris

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AR/Psicommando
« on: February 10, 2020, 10:37:13 am »
Somehow I don't see that much discussion about tin can/AR builds ever since the expedition (and since smart module/burst interation was removed), so I've decided to make my own.  I know that quite a few people consider AR builds boring and the purpose of this build isn't to challenge the imagination, but access most of the game's mechanics and content on hard/dominating, while still providing satisfactory gameplay experience.

So here it is:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HggDAwoMAwfCoFkAAAAAAFR0AABucUZwWwAtMjdNAGxjK20aCFUxKjsmFUlLwodKRVPCpMK1d8Kewq1swp3in6IF4qKNA-KnggLip6oD4quuAt-_

Starting stats: 8str 10const 5int, rest into perception. Get +1int at lvl4 for premeditation and another +1int when you feel like starting crafting.
Gear: night vision +critchance goggles, galvanic superseel armor, galvanic supersteel boots with a spring, high+medium frequency efficient shield, doctor's pouch.
Weapons: 11ap 7.62mm hornet, 16ap 9mm chimera, all with anatomically-aware scopes and muzzle brakes
Other gear: metal armor with biohazard vest (or CAU suit) - for all kinds of gas abuse and for the expedition, 14ap 8.6mm chimera - for 8.6mm ammo utilization and tryharding (it can be shot twice under combined effect of adrenaline and PtC), black cloth stealth set and cloaking device - for stealing and quests, hearseeker armor and boots, huxkey, a lot of grenaders and meds of all kind, hardcore chips.

Features/pros of this build

- Extremely high damage output
- very good durability with decent mobility
- Support/cc psi powers
- 150 biology outside of the workshop, no jacknife or lemurian engineer suit needed, hypercerebrix is needed only for extremely high end crafts
- 7(9) int and excessive persuasion/hacking for RP checks in expedition and deep caverns.

Cons:

- low resolve, weak to thought control psionics, bilocation is death
- tedious inventory management, high repair kit consumption
- no will for psionic RP checks


Now here is where I would need some feedback and suggestions. I didn't playtest this specific build, but I did go through dominating with a similar one http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HggDAwoNAwbCoFkAAAAAAFFhAABxfExnWwAtRkZUAE1jK20aCFVPKjsmFUkxSktiRcKkwrV3wp7CrcKcbOKfogXioo0D4qK1AuKnggLip6oD378 , which I then modified.

And here are some doubts/questionable moments I'm concerned about:

- This build isn't especially minmaxed. Crafting is overcapped severely (which might be of help if you want to do DC before expedition, get 160-170+ components from there and actually use them), hacking/lockpicking is overcapped so you don't need to equip additional items, underpie isn't used etc. Utilizing all that I could get a lot of free skill points, but I don't really understand where else would I put them. it isn't enough to get decent stealth in combat gear, isn't enough to get high end pickpocketing (surely it would help in early game, but in early game I don't have skill points for it anyway). The best thing I could think of is putting them into psi, but I've found out that I hardly ever use stasis and and thermal aura is only barely worth it against expedition's spiders.
- Survival instincts. This is basically a crit build, so it would be great, but I just don't find myself under 30% hp  in mid-late game.
- Expertise. I'm not entirely sure of how it works, does it add 20 damage after all % modifiers, like special ammo? Then it is kinda worthless.
- 7int. Yngwar/Ferryman dialogues aside, it upgrades philisophy and allows taking Gun nut (+15% to the basic higher damage roll) and potentially Power Management (which I didn't find a place for, but I consider switching time acceleration for it). Plus it gives a bunch of skill points, bringing us back to the first paragraph.
- Specialization points. I'm not exactly sure which of damage modifiers are additive (and don't mean that much) and which are multiplicative. Is opportunist:slowed target really worth it?

Sat

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Re: AR/Psicommando
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 04:05:56 pm »
Survival Instinct is a must on AR build with high con (Only checking the first). You have CON requirements and it does not require a change in the build, you do not need to be always below 30% health and it brings a massive damage output. Coupled with glasses, focus stim and food, you ll be at 60-70% chances at least and this relatively early game with recklessness. Add Scrutinous and an infused leather, you ll be above 100% late game.
You may consider a sturdy vest over galvanic.

If you select this feat, you should invest 10 spec points in critical power. The other skill worth investing would be Premed cooldown. Opportunist is not that bad but you may find something better. Thick Skull is not very useful.

Gun nut is not particularly good and many feats would be more efficient.

70-80 points in stealth are always useful early game for dominating/hard. This is probably where to put some of extra crafting / utilities points.

Iviris

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Re: AR/Psicommando
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2020, 12:11:34 am »
Survival Instinct is a must on AR build with high con (Only checking the first). You have CON requirements and it does not require a change in the build, you do not need to be always below 30% health and it brings a massive damage output. Coupled with glasses, focus stim and food, you ll be at 60-70% chances at least and this relatively early game with recklessness. Add Scrutinous and an infused leather, you ll be above 100% late game.
You may consider a sturdy vest over galvanic.

I know it is an obvious choice and a huge damage boost - when it is active - and I used it in my previous game, but I've found from pure practice that I just don't go under 30% often after the  midgame. At least not in cases where I wouldn't just want to load anyway.
Maybe if I tried to intentionally stay at low hp, but this sounds too dangerous and savescummy for a common tactic.
Same thing with premeditation cooldown reduction. I've took it and I found out that I don't utilize it.

If you select this feat, you should invest 10 spec points in critical power.  Opportunist is not that bad but you may find something better. Gun nut is not particularly good and many feats would be more efficient.

Critical power does indeed look like a good thing. Would really helped if I knew which modifiers and additive and which are multiplicative to calculate the  actual damage bonus from specialization points.
Same thing with gun nut. What I'm seeing here is a permanent ~10% damage bonus, because it increases the base damage that then gets multiplied by all the modifiers. Assuming other perks are all additive to guns skill bonus, this is very solid.


Thick Skull is not very useful.

Why? This is one feat that is simply great and the whole point of getting constitution this high. Putting specialization points there is questionable, mostly because I have no idea where are fortitude breakpoints in the game.

70-80 points in stealth are always useful early game for dominating/hard. This is probably where to put some of extra crafting / utilities points.

My problem with skills that I would be able to bring to 70-80 (stealth, traps, pickpocketing) is that in early game I have higher priorities  (need some chemistry for OP nades need some throwing to use them, need psi, need to keep up lockpicking/hacking,  want to start crafting etc) and not enough skill points, and by the late game it becomes useless.

Sat

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Re: AR/Psicommando
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2020, 09:43:18 am »
About SI > As long as you start the fight on your terms, you can handle many fights without a scratch. You are not naked as well with a metal armor and a low quality shield with large capacity (this is where Power Management could be useful). In the quest of the perfect AR Build, I would include Survival Instinct. Damage really pays off in Underrail.

About Gun Nut > We could consider an increase of +7,5% of your damage. If you dont go high critic chance, Expertise will be more efficient. It is not a very bad feat but the increase is really small...

About Thick Skull > I meant about spec points investment on this part of the text. Invested points on Fortitude could be used differently.

About Stealth > it is more comfortable for Dominating early game especially due to low initiatives. It gives comfort when playing oddities.

In any case, your build is very well done
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 09:56:05 am by Sat »

Iviris

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Re: AR/Psicommando
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 01:25:31 pm »
About Gun Nut > We could consider an increase of +7,5% of your damage. If you dont go high critic chance, Expertise will be more efficient. It is not a very bad feat but the increase is really small...
It would be 7.5% if min and max damage were equal, but with damage spread actual ARs have in game, it is 9.75%

Anyway, I finished my domination playthrough, did some testing and optimizing and made some final changed to the build.

- lowered biology from 150 to 130, because I'm stupid and 150 is required not for ssdrug, but for a completely irrelevant poison.
- savescummed vendors a lot and found out how much skill exactly do I need to cover all pre-DC crafting.
- more cohesive trait progression for oddity playthrough.
- moved some specialization points into crit power. Crit power spec should give me on  average 1.14% damage per point on hornet and 2.28% on chimera compared to 0.93% from opportunist and full auto, assuming latter two all are completely additive to guns, assuming there are no enemies with incoming crit chance modifiers, assuming focus stim and ignoring concentrated fire. If those are multiplicative, then +3% bonuses are obviously better (and specializations are kinda badly designed). Further testing required. I guess going back to these two is an option too, to get mroe stable damage.
- replaced serial killer with power management. Unless I would go and wage war on faceless/tchortists, there are few dangerous humanoid endgame enemies,  sormirbaeren/pirates get overkilled and I'd rather have 2k+ shields and 175+ night vision.
- put lemurian engineer suit back in, 120+ hacking/lockpicking checks are rare enough for it to not be annoying. Screw jackknife tho.



http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HggDAwoMAwfCoGcAAAAAAE9pAAB2dkhTWwAtRjdIAG1jCCsabSZVKhU7wodJSjFLRVPCpMK1KcKewq3CnWzin6IF4qK1AuKnggLip6oD4qe-A9-_
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 10:26:37 pm by Iviris »