Author Topic: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch  (Read 9728 times)

goodboyblue

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I have 900 hours in this game, and I have never played a stealth rogue. I figure I'll use Black Dragon and make infused rathound leather armor for the crit chance, with the pirate sword for ripostes when faced by melee enemies. I'm also going to use traps and Brutality + Deaths Grin for some CC. I am also going for evasion with 10 Agility. I heard that evasion in general is worthless in DOMINATING(Never used it in my playthroughs since I heard that, but don't know if its true.)  Heres the build:

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgUPCgMDBQUAawDCoCjCoDI3GR4yaGg7Q2UAAAAAAEtdOTEWEsKZEwbCjlwkS8KNwow-woHCszDinY0D4qe-CuKyiQLfvw

What do you think?

I am aware this will be a tough playthrough, I have found melee to suck generally in DOMINATING. I plan to abuse the hell out of restealthing via flashbangs, smoke bomb, etc. I am kinda worried about getting access to Black Dragon before late the twenties. Are throwing knifes still worthless? I considered them since I'm using such high DEX.

Also, will the next patch break my game if it gets updated while I'm in the middle of the play through?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 04:04:56 pm by goodboyblue »

Vokial

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I've always wanted to try Brutality with Death Grin and planned a build myself, but never had the time, so I'm glad someone does it. Because of the high DEX and the wonder what CC can I have with Cut Throat and Dirty Kick (especially with Infused Rathound Tabis + Armor) and since I like Stealth charcters better, I decided to use knives - but Brutality will probalby be also great with Flurry and Riptose sounds nice. However I suggest you take Uncanny Dodge if you're going melee, especially in Dominating and wearing a light armor.

Evasion is useful against grenades, so it's advisable. Still I would crank up Intimidation more, just to avoid seeing Brutality resisted even at the expense of Mercantile - I mean your weapon will not be craftable anyway. Which might mean that Mechanics and Electronics end up not being that useful too.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 06:16:52 pm by Vokial »

goodboyblue

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I've always wanted to try Brutality with Death Grin and planned a build myself, but never had the time, so I'm glad someone does it. Because of the high DEX and the wonder what CC can I have with Cut Throat and Dirty Kick (especially with Infused Rathound Tabis + Armor) and since I like Stealth charcters better, I decided to use knives - but Brutality will probalby be also great with Flurry and Riptose sounds nice. However I suggest you take Uncanny Dodge if you're going melee, especially in Dominating and wearing a light armor.

Evasion is useful against grenades, so it's advisable. Still I would crank up Intimidation more, just to avoid seeing Brutality resisted even at the expense of Mercantile - I mean your weapon will not be craftable anyway. Which might mean that Mechanics and Electronics end up not being that useful too.


Yeah I thought about using knives as well. I was always under the impression cut throat isn't as useful as human enemies become nowhere near as dangerous as creatures and become pretty easy to kill. Would Uncanny Dodge be that worth it when my parry is so high? You are right on Intimidation though, I think I will remove some points from electronics and mechanics.

Vokial

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Might decrease Throwing as well, if you're planning mostly Flashbangs anyway, can also ditch the grenade related feats for something else. If it's just utility grenades, you could also save some points on Chemistry, however Biology is good where it is at 80. Maybe take Temporal for the MP/AP buff and it's related feat (especially with 5 WILL) and boost some Subterfuge skills.
Probably decrease AGI to 8 and raise STR to 7 so that you could take Decapitate - sounds nice if you use swords anyway and will probalby synergizes extremely well with Ripper.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 06:19:38 pm by Vokial »

goodboyblue

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Might decrease Throwing as well, if you're planning mostly Flashbangs anyway, can also ditch the grenade related feats for something else. If it's just utility grenades, you could also save some points on Chemistry, however Biology is good where it is at 80. Maybe take Temporal for the MP/AP buff and it's related feat (especially with 5 WILL) and boost some Subterfuge skills.
Probably decrease AGI to 8 and raise STR to 7 so that you could take Decapitate - sounds nice if you use swords anyway and will probalby synergizes extremely well with Ripper.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgcOCAMDBQYAKADCoMKgwqBQYDIZMlgvO0dYAAAAAABqADEkYcKMEw0Swplcwo3Ci0sGwoHCjkHCs-KdjAPip74K4rKJAt-_

How's this look.

I dropped sprint cause I figured I will have enough movement points. I actually want to go non-psi with this build, I have made a majority of my run psi hybrid builds and I want to try my hand at a pure sword rogue. I originally took 3 pointer though cause I figured some aoe dmg would be good. Also, what is a good threshhold for infused rathound leather armor and tabis? I have it at 110. I want a decent crit chance % added.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 08:56:49 pm by goodboyblue »

Vokial

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 07:20:00 am »
Before I say anything, generally it's best if you make your build as it is best for you, so you don't need to take any advice here. Guess you can read it and decide, but there's nothing wrong with going after your own head.

If I were to alter your build, it would look like this:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgcOCAMDBQYAKADCoGXCnXhRLAAsUHQiQWMAAAAAAMKLACQmMQ0SwowTQcKZwo4GS8KBwovCjVzCs-KdjQLin4QB4qe-CuKyiQLfvw

Uncanny Dodge get enough out of 150 Dodge - that's 7 hit you can deflect.
Oppurtunist to get bonus damage when you use Dirty Kick / Flashbangs / Cheap Shot incapacitate.
Expose Weakness duration specialization is very important.

The feats should be in similar order, I mean you have to get Critical Power at level 20 LATEST, otherwise you won't be able to fully specialize in it. From 16, it's the 5 points in everything else, then from level 21, you can only level Crit Power.
Basically until halfway, level 16 we establish our ability to Flurry, lower enemy defense and increase our own, then it's nothing but offensive feats. You might want to begin leveling Intimidation from this point only and not before, so you can raise your other skills first that will be more useful from the start - Brutality will only come later anway, so no worries.
Decapitate is something I would definetly include here, I mean it benefits a lot from all damage increasing feats and we have many, also Red Dragon gives a bonus to it too.

Even with 160 effective Stealth, I think you need to use Black Cloth to be able to comfortably sneak around, especially since you're melee. Then the question is that should it be Soft padding for more stealth, or High Density padding for better melee protection. Death's Grin also reduces stealth, so we need as much as we can get.
Lowered Hacking to 105, since with Hypercerebrix and Engi suit (+UnderPie), you'll be at 130.
Lowered Lockpick to 100, since with skill boosting tools, Engi Suit, you'll be at 130 (then there's still Jackknife and Eel Sandwitch too).
To be perfectly honest I don't know how much Mechanics you need and for what. So who knows maybe somebody else can tell you that.
70 Biology is a must for Hypercerebrix, but 80 is handy for Bullheads, yeah.
Chemistry is at a mere 45, enough for Flashbangs, tier 2 incendiary grenades and tier 2 gas greandes.
Even without shock-; or energy edge weapon crafting, I decided to increase Electronics significantly in order to craft the very best energy shields against ranged enemies. 135 for tier 3 Plasma explosives - so there's your damage dealing grenades (and mines) + you can also put together the best in EMP warfare too.
Tailoring 115. You can't get a Rathound leather as high as some other leather anyway and there's always Hypercerebrix and benches too if you need a boost, so 115 should be fine.
Raised Intimidation further for obvious reasons. Brutality has that increased chance to kick in with every single attack, we want to make it count.



Also it's worth to mention that while Dexterity increases your crit chance and Initiative, your sword get an additional 7% damage with each point in Strength after 6. So if you leave DEX at 10 (to still have Ripper) which might still be okay and put the other 6 points in STR, you'll end up with 13 Strength. That's basically a +50% damage increase... Practically after every second hit you'll get another full hit worth in damage. Sure comes handy with all the Flurrying, or when you want to reach that 51% of the remaining health with Deacapitation. Bigger hits mean bigger crits too.
So yeah, DEX or STR... that's something to think about.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 10:13:03 am by Vokial »

Gagneto

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2020, 12:43:02 am »
Before I say anything, generally it's best if you make your build as it is best for you, so you don't need to take any advice here. Guess you can read it and decide, but there's nothing wrong with going after your own head.

If I were to alter your build, it would look like this:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgcOCAMDBQYAKADCoGXCnXhRLAAsUHQiQWMAAAAAAMKLACQmMQ0SwowTQcKZwo4GS8KBwovCjVzCs-KdjQLin4QB4qe-CuKyiQLfvw

Uncanny Dodge get enough out of 150 Dodge - that's 7 hit you can deflect.
Oppurtunist to get bonus damage when you use Dirty Kick / Flashbangs / Cheap Shot incapacitate.
Expose Weakness duration specialization is very important.

The feats should be in similar order, I mean you have to get Critical Power at level 20 LATEST, otherwise you won't be able to fully specialize in it. From 16, it's the 5 points in everything else, then from level 21, you can only level Crit Power.
Basically until halfway, level 16 we establish our ability to Flurry, lower enemy defense and increase our own, then it's nothing but offensive feats. You might want to begin leveling Intimidation from this point only and not before, so you can raise your other skills first that will be more useful from the start - Brutality will only come later anway, so no worries.
Decapitate is something I would definetly include here, I mean it benefits a lot from all damage increasing feats and we have many, also Red Dragon gives a bonus to it too.

Even with 160 effective Stealth, I think you need to use Black Cloth to be able to comfortably sneak around, especially since you're melee. Then the question is that should it be Soft padding for more stealth, or High Density padding for better melee protection. Death's Grin also reduces stealth, so we need as much as we can get.
Lowered Hacking to 105, since with Hypercerebrix and Engi suit, you'll be at 130.
Lowered Lockpick to 100, since with skill boosting tools, Engi Suit, you'll be at 130 (then there's still Jackknife and Eel Sandwitch too).
To be perfectly honest I don't know how much Mechanics you need and for what. So who knows maybe somebody else can tell you that.
70 Biology is a must for Hypercerebrix, but 80 is handy for Bullheads, yeah.
Chemistry is at a mere 45, enough for Flashbangs, tier 2 incendiary grenades and tier 2 gas greandes.
Even without shock-; or energy edge weapon crafting, I decided to increase Electronics significantly in order to craft the very best energy shields against ranged enemies. 135 for tier 3 Plasma explosives - so there's your damage dealing grenades (and mines) + you can also put together the best in EMP warfare too.
Tailoring 115. You can't get a Rathound leather as high as some other leather anyway and there's always Hypercerebrix and benches too if you need a boost, so 115 should be fine.
Raised Intimidation further for obvious reasons. Brutality has that increased chance to kick in with every single attack, we want to make it count.



Also it's worth to mention that while Dexterity increases your crit chance and Initiative, your sword get an additional 7% damage with each point in Strength after 6. So if you leave DEX at 10 (to still have Ripper) which might still be okay and put the other 6 points in STR, you'll end up with 13 Strength. That's basically a +50% damage increase... Practically after every second hit you'll get another full hit worth in damage. Sure comes handy with all the Flurrying, or when you want to reach that 51% of the remaining health with Deacapitation. Bigger hits mean bigger crits too.
So yeah, DEX or STR... that's something to think about.

so I was scouting the forums for a build like this, although I don't have nearly enough hours like you 2 probably, I got curious on this build and was thinking of trying it as well (not on dominating difficulty though)
ok, so, I like the more points in str ideia but wouldn't it difficult skill allocation? or at least change it quite a bit? cause dex as a stat overall gives a lot more than str on skills, how would you make up for the skill bonuses that were lost?

goodboyblue

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2020, 02:23:35 am »
Before I say anything, generally it's best if you make your build as it is best for you, so you don't need to take any advice here. Guess you can read it and decide, but there's nothing wrong with going after your own head.

If I were to alter your build, it would look like this:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgcOCAMDBQYAKADCoGXCnXhRLAAsUHQiQWMAAAAAAMKLACQmMQ0SwowTQcKZwo4GS8KBwovCjVzCs-KdjQLin4QB4qe-CuKyiQLfvw

Uncanny Dodge get enough out of 150 Dodge - that's 7 hit you can deflect.
Oppurtunist to get bonus damage when you use Dirty Kick / Flashbangs / Cheap Shot incapacitate.
Expose Weakness duration specialization is very important.

The feats should be in similar order, I mean you have to get Critical Power at level 20 LATEST, otherwise you won't be able to fully specialize in it. From 16, it's the 5 points in everything else, then from level 21, you can only level Crit Power.
Basically until halfway, level 16 we establish our ability to Flurry, lower enemy defense and increase our own, then it's nothing but offensive feats. You might want to begin leveling Intimidation from this point only and not before, so you can raise your other skills first that will be more useful from the start - Brutality will only come later anway, so no worries.
Decapitate is something I would definetly include here, I mean it benefits a lot from all damage increasing feats and we have many, also Red Dragon gives a bonus to it too.

Even with 160 effective Stealth, I think you need to use Black Cloth to be able to comfortably sneak around, especially since you're melee. Then the question is that should it be Soft padding for more stealth, or High Density padding for better melee protection. Death's Grin also reduces stealth, so we need as much as we can get.
Lowered Hacking to 105, since with Hypercerebrix and Engi suit, you'll be at 130.
Lowered Lockpick to 100, since with skill boosting tools, Engi Suit, you'll be at 130 (then there's still Jackknife and Eel Sandwitch too).
To be perfectly honest I don't know how much Mechanics you need and for what. So who knows maybe somebody else can tell you that.
70 Biology is a must for Hypercerebrix, but 80 is handy for Bullheads, yeah.
Chemistry is at a mere 45, enough for Flashbangs, tier 2 incendiary grenades and tier 2 gas greandes.
Even without shock-; or energy edge weapon crafting, I decided to increase Electronics significantly in order to craft the very best energy shields against ranged enemies. 135 for tier 3 Plasma explosives - so there's your damage dealing grenades (and mines) + you can also put together the best in EMP warfare too.
Tailoring 115. You can't get a Rathound leather as high as some other leather anyway and there's always Hypercerebrix and benches too if you need a boost, so 115 should be fine.
Raised Intimidation further for obvious reasons. Brutality has that increased chance to kick in with every single attack, we want to make it count.



Also it's worth to mention that while Dexterity increases your crit chance and Initiative, your sword get an additional 7% damage with each point in Strength after 6. So if you leave DEX at 10 (to still have Ripper) which might still be okay and put the other 6 points in STR, you'll end up with 13 Strength. That's basically a +50% damage increase... Practically after every second hit you'll get another full hit worth in damage. Sure comes handy with all the Flurrying, or when you want to reach that 51% of the remaining health with Deacapitation. Bigger hits mean bigger crits too.
So yeah, DEX or STR... that's something to think about.

so I was scouting the forums for a build like this, although I don't have nearly enough hours like you 2 probably, I got curious on this build and was thinking of trying it as well (not on dominating difficulty though)
ok, so, I like the more points in str ideia but wouldn't it difficult skill allocation? or at least change it quite a bit? cause dex as a stat overall gives a lot more than str on skills, how would you make up for the skill bonuses that were lost?

This is what I ended up doing. It is doing pretty well on dominating so far. I want high mechanics/electronics/tailoring so that I can make mk3 plasma nades and make my infused rathound leather armor at a decent level.


l0cus77

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2020, 06:42:07 am »
How did light armour worked with swords? I always thought it would be more metal armour oriented since you want to be there connecting flurrys and using parry, what involves getting hit in the end.

Vokial

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2020, 08:43:42 am »
How did light armour worked with swords? I always thought it would be more metal armour oriented since you want to be there connecting flurrys and using parry, what involves getting hit in the end.
OP wanted to do a stealth sword and that's only acomplishable wearing light armor. But it's good. Basically he needs to play like a knife user. With enough Stealth, he should manage to surprise the enemy. Let's say against a group of Lurkers. If I think about it, knives don't have Red Dragon level uniques, but they have Cut-Throat which is a feat that might even be worth taking here too and carry one off-hand, just to open each fight with it and just totally erase one guy, then switch to a sword. Even if not, we just Dirty Kick someone, maybe straight up decapitate the low hp psi-user and start Flurrying the rest. It's important to leave the melee enemy last, since if it's not feared out of his mind yet, his attacks will be countered anyway. And with such an advanced Uncanny Dodge (good against special attacks too from crawlers or humans from stealth) and high DEX Parry, it should be enough to survive the enemy turn and finish the fight.
He definetly needs energy shields though to not feel helpless against ranged mobs, so I figured that high Electronics is mandatory. IN CASE the build does not use the Red Dragon but crafted weaponry, then 7 INT to gain more skill points we can pour to Mechanics and taking Power Management & Weaponsmith will probably be a good idea.
But if you plan on getting the Red Dragon ASAFP, then maybe it's better to hold off on Mechanics a bit and only increase it once you have something you want to make and THEN raise this skill to that level, so you're not end up wasting points. I know grenades require some, Infused armor too.

so I was scouting the forums for a build like this, although I don't have nearly enough hours like you 2 probably, I got curious on this build and was thinking of trying it as well (not on dominating difficulty though)
ok, so, I like the more points in str ideia but wouldn't it difficult skill allocation? or at least change it quite a bit? cause dex as a stat overall gives a lot more than str on skills, how would you make up for the skill bonuses that were lost?
That case, one has to increase INT to 7 at the cost of having 12 STR instead of 13. That way you can set every skill to the same amount, with a few points less in Throwing or Intimidation. Also: If we indeed take Nimble, then we can decrease Dodge to 131, so with the Nimble bonus we reach 150. Or raise it to 157 and get 180.


Also, I want to emphasize again, that I never played a melee in this game so far, so what I say is not tried and tested info. I planned to make a knife user, but never got around to actually play it, so my suggestions are although with the best of intentions, is nowhere near from an expert:)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 10:10:21 am by Vokial »

Gagneto

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2020, 03:14:29 pm »

That case, one has to increase INT to 7 at the cost of having 12 STR instead of 13. That way you can set every skill to the same amount, with a few points less in Throwing or Intimidation. Also: If we indeed take Nimble, then we can decrease Dodge to 131, so with the Nimble bonus we reach 150. Or raise it to 157 and get 180.


Also, I want to emphasize again, that I never played a melee in this game so far, so what I say is not tried and tested info. I planned to make a knife user, but never got around to actually play it, so my suggestions are although with the best of intentions, is nowhere near from an expert:)

we're all experts when theorycrafting so like the OP I'm putting the build to the test (though valorant just came out again and I'm a slow player), I'll try to incorporate the int and the skill points as well, 12 str looks doable enough and I shouldn't have any gamebreaking problems since I'm playing normal, if the OP is having a good time in Dominating I should be good to go as well

thanks all for the theorycrafting session

goodboyblue

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Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2020, 03:52:04 pm »
I'll give an update when I hit upper levels. I am level 11 right now.