Author Topic: Please help! Build: SMG [Hard]  (Read 2684 times)

Mas49

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Please help! Build: SMG [Hard]
« on: July 24, 2020, 11:14:08 pm »
Hey everyone,

I'm relatively new to the game, and as such, I mostly use builds from YT. After a run with the "Psion" build on Underrail standalone, I bought Expedition and felt like trying out guns for the first time. As I also wanted to use the stealth mechanics (at least for a bit), and go full auto on those pesky NPCs, I looked for a suitable build on YT. I settled for Nerd Commando's "Spec Ops" (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_a08dZB_7E). I know it was meant for Underrail before Expedition came out, but I didn't think the meta would have changed THAT much since the dlc.

Obviously, I must have been wrong, because I struggled a lot since the start of the game, especially against armorred enemies such as Psi beetles (in Hard mode you get the adult ones pretty early on). I'm now stuck at the end of the GMS compound mission, as I cannot win the fight against the raiders holding the hostages at the lowest level, even using flashbangs/molotovs/caltrops and food buffs. And that is not for lack of trying, I tried everything from hit and run with the "sprint" and "suppressive fire" abilities, to flash "spam", tried luring them to the autoturret... But I must come to the conclusion that my build is not good enough for hard difficulty.

 I did stray a bit away from Nerd Commando's recommandations: I picked points in Mercantile to get cheaper ammo, a few in traps and throwing for flexibility, and finally I did get psionic empathy as I kept reading that temporal manipulation would increase my AP eventually, which is usefull for such a glass canon build. Can you either help me "fix" this, or do you have an altogether better build for SMGs in hard difficulty?

Here's the build as it stands now in my savegame: https://underrail.info/build/?BQMJBgMLAwYjCgAACgUjIx4ADxkACgAZAAAACgAAIys5OyRZ378

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Please help! Build: SMG [Hard]
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2020, 03:54:37 am »
Well, your stats seem fine, though clearly the 3 Constitution is hurting you.  Your skills are spread out a bit.  Tiny investments in Dodge and Evasion are generally not very helpful since if you're 88% likely to get shot in the face or 86% likely, you're still uncomfortably likely to get shot in the face.  You've also invested early on in soft skills that don't really help keep you alive - Mercantile, Hacking, Lockpicking, and those crafting skills (which will help you stay alive, but not until you've got something useful to craft, obviously).  As feats go, I would much rather - for an SMG build - have both Opportunist and Suppressive Fire at level 4 rather than just one of the two and Point Shot (unless Suppressive Fire no longer triggers Opportunist, but I don't recall that changing).  Level 4 is fairly early to be at GMS L3 - are you playing Oddity or Classic XP?  I usually get to level 6 by the time I'm done with L2, so it's possible you could use some additional exploration.

I wonder if it's down to gear, though.  By the time you go into GMS level 3 where the bandits are, you probably should have cleared out the easier parts of the Underpassages, because they are so very very full of loot.  Sure, you're a 3 STR SMG build, but you've got enough guns skill to use the AR available in the Underpassages - just hitch a ride (or walk, but that's a little dangerous) to Junkyard and buy one Junkyard Surprise, then savescum until you get +2 Strength from it.  Underpassages will also have some nice armor options for you that might help you take a hit or two, especially if you get lucky RNG and the rathound room has a riot gear + shield.  You could also, as long as you keep your distance, go loot the shelves and boxes in the Lunatic map due south of GMS.  Might be something there helpful, and IIRC the boxes/desk are locked at 35 skill.  There are some rathound maps that are adjacent to the path you took to get to GMS, but just barely out of the way; one of them has two rooms behind a gate that you could check for loot, too.  There's also an abandoned Omega building map with a few items of loot.

If you don't want to reroll your character and focus a little tighter, then probably you should see about doing a little bit of exploration.  Your character is going to be fragile, so early on and with such low Dodge/Evasion, maybe armor up a touch.

If you do want to reroll, then don't invest in Mercantile (edit: well, unless you want to rush to 15 to get a more expensive weapon off Lucas) or any crafting skills until you need them, probably around level 6 or so (maybe 8 or even 10 depending on XP mode and how much exploration you do).  You might even want to go in for Psychokinesis instead of TM, early on - you won't get psi haste until after Depot A, anyway, and TK Punch and Electrokinesis will be awfully useful even at low skill in the early game (and electrokinesis always).  Worry about surviving first, then worry about thriving.  On Hard difficulty, there's enough money in the game that you don't need to worry about squeezing every last charon out of the early game.

Also, if you're going to have Psi Empathy and 6 Int anyway, make sure you rush to 35 points invested and get Premeditation at level 6.  Whatever else you wanted to get can wait.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 04:00:34 am by TheAverageGortsby »

Mas49

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Re: Please help! Build: SMG [Hard]
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2020, 02:50:32 pm »
Level 4 is fairly early to be at GMS L3 - are you playing Oddity or Classic XP?  I usually get to level 6 by the time I'm done with L2, so it's possible you could use some additional exploration.

I am playing on Classic xp mode, my bad I forgot to mention that. I did not explore much, though I picked clean all the maps I went through.

As for gear, I use a Hopper reinforced leather armor (Stealth+Agility bonus), Perception goggles, and Hopper boots (not tabi). I was rewarded with a 7.62mm Jaguar SMG for the "Lost watch" quest, and I looted a 5mm Jaguar a bit later, I'm using the 5 mil for easy targets (like rathounds or isolated raiders) and the 7.62 for tougher fights/armored enemies like psi beetles.

You obviously know the game better than I do, because I didn't know about this Underpassage AR, and never really explored this place. Though ARs will not benefit from my high dex right? And are you sure I should use Riot gear with such a build? I'd lose a lot of mobility won't I?

TheAverageGortsby

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Re: Please help! Build: SMG [Hard]
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2020, 07:26:33 pm »
Though ARs will not benefit from my high dex right? And are you sure I should use Riot gear with such a build? I'd lose a lot of mobility won't I?
ARs won't benefit from your Dexterity, but they'll do more damage per bullet and offer you greater range.  I wouldn't suggest you use them much past the very earliest part of the game if you're making an SMG character, but there are potential benefits including possibly spreading out the ammo need you've got - SMGs are ammo hogs.  As for the riot gear, it provides extra protection against melee and bullets, so if it's a half-decent set that gets RNG'ed up for you, then it might really help you survive the bandit trio.  You might also go pick up a Vigorous Belt from Pasquale, the doctor in SGS.  If you don't need stealth for a moment, then 30 extra health - especially early on for a 3 Con character - might make a real difference.

My personal favorite for that fight is to clear out all the other bandits first, then go up to the front door and open it but don't go in.  Wait a few seconds in real-time (for the turn to end so you recover your action points) then manually start turn-based mode, chuck a grenade in there, raise a force field (if you have that ability, which you don't, so skip that step unless you restart with a new character) and then hustle out of the way toward the elevator so you've got that nice double LOS break.  When the bandits get through your force field they'll come running to you, and you can pick them off as they close.

You've got plenty of inventory capacity even at 3 Strength.  I wouldn't suggest you use ARs or riot gear with your build most of the time, but it may be helpful in certain situations to carry a spare set of gear so you can try different approaches if you find yourself bouncing off of problems.