Author Topic: Underrail developers, ATTENTION PLEASE - Solid suggestion regarding Deep Caverns  (Read 2296 times)

Exterminator

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I don't know whether do you read UR subreddit or not, but you should check at least these suggestions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/underrail/comments/i62rpe/what_changes_would_you_make_to_deep_caverns/

Sincerely yours,
Exterminator
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 03:34:23 pm by Exterminator »

BiocorpShill

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That's why I would have Tchort psionically contact you on the elevator down to DC, taunt you, make you feel small and helpless against him, try to attack you for not , then have Six save you with his time lord powers. That way, the game demonstrates that the villain is evil, the player has a personal reason for wanting to kill the bad guy, and you have a good reason to help the otherwise infuriating Six.
I really like this suggestion and it's probably the easiest to implement. During the descent to DC tchort communicates psychically with the player. At first it's vague but with each area further in the message gradually becomes clearer mirroring the Lemurian Health Clinic. In the area just before hollow earth Tchort attempts to destroy the player's mind but is repelled with help from six. Each message could also have a will check where by passing all of them reduces the time it takes for Eye of Tchort to build up. Through these interactions you get a glimpse of tchort's intent and a better understanding of WHY it must be destroyed.

Megaost

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I don't want to start an argument so this is just my opinion for balance:

I think the suggestion is godawful. In the Reddit post the top reply writes "That way, the game demonstrates that the villain is evil" because Tchort taunts you, as if the villain of the game belittling the protagonist proves him being "evil" or overshadows the obvious danger of being a psionic demigod trying to kill everyone who approaches except high ranking Tchortists, controlling a powerful cult ostensibly seeking world domination. While I agree that Six is a bit more vague than I would prefer, the storytelling in the suggestion is Harry Potter fanfic level.

This game is so good at nuance and not hitting the player over the head with a "message" that this would turn me off completely. And this talk about the player lacking motivation... Speaking of motivation: Why should Tchort taunt the player? Seems excessively pointless and petty for a creature that powerful. Is he a low-budget anime villain now?

Plenty of improvements could be made for sure, but this... I take solace in the fact that Styg & Co. seem to have pretty good taste in general.

H.E. Esquire

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Seems excessively pointless and petty for a creature that powerful. Is he a low-budget anime villain now?


Given his lengthy speech at the final confrontation, I'm inclined to answer "Always has been".

Jokes aside, I wrote the actual suggestion quickly, and used Tchort taunting the player as a simple example of some sort of hostile interaction with the player character. The main point of the suggestion is not to specify *how* Tchort should antagonize the player, but *that* Tchort should antagonize the player. You mention that he's a psionic demigod trying to kill everyone who approaches except high ranking Tchortists, but that's something that needs to be established before it can used as motivation.

You're correct, that the game does provide good reasons to want Tchort dead. He sends hordes of respawning monsters after you, he has a legion of brainwashed followers attempting to continue Biocorp's mistakes, and if the Faceless are to be believed, he is a soup of Biocorp scientists, who are responsible for hideous experiments and set the stage for the current geopolitical conflicts of Underrail.

Here's the problem: This information is found by exploring the environment. An environment you can't explore until *after* you are tasked with killing Tchort. In short, you find out why you should do something *after* you are instructed to do so. It's completely backwards, and why the quest comes across as contrived. Indeed, prior to entering DC, you aren't even certain that Tchort exists; you only have the Tchortists' word for it that it does, and cults aren't know for being unbiased. Sure, like me, most will roll with it because the choices are either kill Tchort or stop playing, but that doesn't make the narrative any better.

As for Tchort's motivation for the contact, the natural answer would be curiosity, or perhaps territoriality. The player is a new presence in Tchort's domain, and Tchort would only expect Eidein or his trusted guards to enter from that elevator, so when the player arrives, Tchort might want to investigate. It could be a good moment to revisit your roleplaying decisions. If you were an obedient Tchortist, he might be willing to let you go until he finds out you're after the Cube. If that suggestion sounds like the player character is being treated as too important, remember that there is currently a dialogue option where the character feels like a chosen one and IIRC Six doesn't deny it. It might not be great, but the writing wouldn't be getting worse.

Now that I think about it, another way of getting the player on board with the killing Tchort agenda would be to force the player through Hollow Earth for a little bit, getting attacked by Tchortlings, and end up meeting Six by the mutagen gates, where he can launch into his exposition dump. That way, the environment can do the storytelling, which is Underrail's strong suit. It would require more work though.

Megaost

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You're putting me in a very awkward position here, because I would like to give a similarly reactive reply as my original post, but you're just too reasonable. There are points I disagree with that I will adress below, but I now have the added problem of trying to figure out whether or not I actually feel that way or if I just want to continue disagreeing. Life has never been easy.

I feel like I owe you an apology for interpreting your suggestion in bad faith instead of realizing the more likely scenario where you typed it up quickly as a crude example, but because of my fragile ego I'm not going to give you one.

My fear is that the attempt to improve the narrative will, unless the proper time and care is taken (and idk what the logistics over at Stygian Software is like) make the playing experience worse than it currently is. I get by just fine with the primary motivation being a desire to explore and keep playing, and I think that for most of the game it would make way more sense for the player character to settle down and grow fungi or whatever like the rest of SGS. I think exploration for the sake of it is so woven into the whole experience of video games that a lack of narrative justifying it is a complete blindspot for me that I struggle to take seriously even if pointed out.

tl;dr: Sure, but make the changes absolutely brilliant or I will riot.

I disagree with the rest of your points because you disagree with me and I want to save face. Take that, disembodied representation of a threat to my conceptual social status!