Author Topic: 4 builds at once - Sword/EW, Ninja Tin, EW+fists acrobat and Gun-Fu (Hard)  (Read 4155 times)

Cassidy

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Skip the next two paragraphs if you just want to read about the builds.

I got a particular habit from the over 7 times I played Arcanum of going in with several different builds simultaneously instead of playing from start to end with only one character before trying another one, and I'm doing it with UnderRail too. That game is a lot more forgiving in comparison, specially if you know the meta of imbalances, with builds like a Dwarf bowman-technomancer narrowly balanced between magick and tech being perfectly doable while the closest equivalent to that here would have a very hard time if not softlocked in Depot A, maybe even on Normal.

So far I have yet to beat this game on Hard but I'm saving it for later, I got an old save at Hard with a pre-nerf max WIL 10 INT 3-school stealthy psychic that already did all Institute side quests, which I stopped playing because such build is optimized to have access to as much lore content and options to achieve different game endings as possible so I want to return to it later. While no longer the powerhouse it was in older versions, it is still good. LOC + enrage, electro, electro imprint and AOE from metathermics etc even with all extra psi point cost is a very flexible arsenal.

Now I'm playing with four characters, two went through Depot A already and the other 2 are mostly theorycrafting for now because the saved games are just at game start. I tried to avoid cookie-cutter optimal builds and try a bit the new weapons and feats in Expedition.


1) Faith, Super Steel and Energy Weapons (no psionics because HERESY!):

https://underrail.info/build/?DwgNBwMDAwYAMwBVHg9CTzAAAEVFAABJAAAAADwAIxnCozENJABOwpkawo7fvw

Short version: DEX-focused melee+shield with energy pistols as sidearms. Surprisingly tanky vs. melee opponents despite 3 CON. Next chosen feat will almost certainly be Critical Power.

I like the concept of a versatile sci-fi Roman legionary or Byzantine techno-tagmata with shield, gladius machete and energy pistols, and it's sort of like something from WH40k. However, all the way to Depot A this was, except for Weaponsmith, quite generalist in weaponry feat-wise. I could even ditch the shield or change from machetes to knives without rendering the build unusable or with useless feats but decided to stick to the original idea. Shotguns were used too before crafting the first riot gear with shield.

All points put in persuasion here are purely optional and only useful for those who want their characters to join Foreman Domai and the Free Drones and achieve the best possible ending for their cause (plus passing a check to convince a certain character to spare another's life). If you will do Foundry quests first than Rail Crossing ones, want a Protectorate ending, or to never pick sides during the playthrough, those points can be safely put into other skills. On the other hand effective Mercantile skill 40 is a very useful goal to reach before going through Depot A to get better stuff for sale from a very useful trader that will be located as part of a quest in Junkyard.

Went with parry+riposte instead of flurry because it's a very hit or miss feat that might do better at later levels when chances to miss become relatively smaller for max melee even vs high dodge foes. Should I still go for flurry later? I'm not even sure it's worth it. I'd rather pick Critical Power first which will benefit both melee and ranged weapons. Expose weakness seems like a waste of a feat as it can handle high mech DR/DT alright. Escape Artist on the other hand proved a lifesaver vs the Rathound King and the less-than-optimal initial points put in dodge were worth it just for that. Evasion was a waste of points though but this ain't Dominating, 15 points ain't worth starting all over again.

The current combat gear is a Galvanic TiChrome Riot shield, utility belt, infused rathound tabi for more Dirty Kicks, motion tracking NVGs because crawlers, a spare Rathound Regalia, balaclava and ninja tabi to switch to for max stealth, and seeker goggles when getting more crit chance with the ranged sidearm as a battle starter is desirable.

Equipped weapons are curved tungsten machete for max critical damage bonus against most threats and a polarizing amplified shock pistol. The high energy usage from CWA and polarizer are acceptable when most combat will be solved with a blade. Additionally the inventory includes an energy super steel machete as backup vs crit immune or high mechanical DR/DT foes and a laser pistol with the same mods as the equipped shock one. Utilities are a taser, nets, flashbangs and whatever grenade is best for the occasion in an utility belt.

Perhaps the energy machete made the laser pistol obsolete for this character and the only ranged sidearm worth keeping is the shock pistol, the only loss would be a measly 13% chance to apply polarized debuff on what the laser pistol hits(higher quality probably won't make that much better) up to 7 times with adrenaline instead of 2-3 times with shock pistol, but the latter has a much better ~53% chance to soften targets for the energy machete and once critical power is in, more skill is put in electronics and a better quality CWA is found, it will be truly great. Most use of the laser pistol before the first encounters against bladelings was to avoid wasting 11 AP leftovers from sword attacks and it's nothing that big anyway unless it crits. Or is it better to keep a laser pistol as backup sidearm despite of how difficult it can be to find high quality Circular Wave Amplifiers?

2) TMNT-C (Terrifying Mobile Ninja Tin-Can) :

https://underrail.info/build/?DAgDAwoJAwdGIgAAAABBMUEAADgsEA8sAAAARgAAICY7K2NTJEUORt-_

Short version: Nimble tin can with TM psionics protected by sloped steel or super steel metal armor, moving quietly with ninja tabi, armed with ARs and a silenced SMG because no true ninja would do anything without a silent weapon.

If a turtle can become a ninja, why can't a tin can do the same? Yet another derivative of the tin can, less tanky, critical chance, burst or precision optimized goggles and gun mods for crafted guns because smart modules no longer work with burst, with better movement speed and the ability to do quests which require stealth using the right crafted gear for it. A bit spread in skill points but can do it. Uses TM because it has the HP to spare and even with 3 WIL extra AP through psionics works (still needs to find and learn the psi ability that does that though). On Thick Skull, it spared a lot of save/load and is truly a tank feat among tank feats, to the point even for a build archetype that isn't usually combined with it, I decided to go for it too, at least before realizing Survival Instincts and Thick Skull don't work together very well for thick skull works better as a buff for survival odds when starting all battles at 100% health.

Current gear for this one is a sturdy steel metal armor, ninja tabi, doctor pouch, seeker NVG and spare galvanic overcoat for either stealth or coil spiders and balaclava for stealth. Utilities change a lot depending on the situation, but a taser is always readied for more damage with Opportunist.

Weaponry is one crafted scoped 9mm Huszar, one 8.6mm Hornet taken from the dead hands of an Ironhead near SGS and, for stealth kills, a silenced 5mm jackrabbit tactical usually loaded with W2C, first crafted for the first of the Scrapper quests that won't burn bridges with the Black Eels and for any other situational cases where despite being a peashooter, it will be choice instead of the loud ARs. Currently saving muzzle brakes for higher quality ARs that won't be found until Core City opens up instead using them to craft meh Marauders or automatic hammerers(except the Huszar normally costs much less AP per shot than a hammerer of course).

Funnily I considered a quest where the Doctor feat is used to save a character's life and forgot the same character will shoot you on sight unless you pass a persuade or intimidate check, not that it's a useless feat, on the contrary, it's handy for high CON characters and makes then more tanky in a less obvious way than direct boosts to HP, specially when combined with fast metabolism.

Next feats will be Commando, and finally at last, Full Auto then Concentrated Fire. Unless PTA is a better choice compared to one of them.


Now onto the mostly theorycrafting ones, with how they are at level 1(in-game) and the planned level where the fundamental capabilities of their builds will be "complete".

3) Near-sighted energy pistols master acrobat with a fistful of pneumatics*:

*or bare fists if pneumatic gloves cost more than 4 AP despite DEX and LP feat and FF + blitz with the former gives better damage/turn.

Start: https://underrail.info/build/?AQMICgMDAwoFCQAPDw8PBgMAAAoKAAAHAAAACgAAAMKjMSvfvw

Planned "Finished" Build: https://underrail.info/build/?DgMLCgMDAwoZHgBQUFAyMyYAACMvAAAbAAAARgAAG8KjMSskwpogE1pHS9-_

Short Version: Punches stuff for movement points then Blitz to either punch more stuff or fire energy pistols. Dodge and Evasion as main defenses.

Another versatility build that uses both energy pistols and melee like the first one, yet very different and likely harder to play with. It will have energy pistols as the main and unarmed as "sidearms", at least during the first half of the 30 character levels. I'm aware dodge and evasion are usually considered inferior options for character defense, which is why I want to try a build focused on it, max AGI, INT then and all points put into dexterity. While there aren't many unarmed feats that could fit in in the "Finished" build, the synergy between Fancy Footwork, Lightning Punches and Blitz for the alpha strike will be essential for this one, supposing it actually will work as well as I hope it will, with, once blitz gets fully specialized into max AP bonus, up to 3 free shots with a laser pistol (or maybe only 2) or one free shock pistol shot after hopefully having beaten the first line of foes with fists. Critical Power doesn't help with fist weapons, but knives cost more AP therefore they wouldn't be so useful to max blitz through FF.

Considering the significant damage bonus from 10 INT and common use of punches with pneumatic gloves to farm movement points for blitz, will laser or plasma pistols be the best options for this one besides a shock pistol?

Main suit of armor will likely be either siphoner leather for even more dodge bonuses or a high quality stealthy ballistic overcoat with only 15% armor penalty so there will be some chance of not getting one-shotted when evasion fails. Infused siphoner tabi will likely be very useful too here for the dodge and evasion boons.

Next feats will be UD, Deflection and Evasive Maneuvers in either order, then maybe ballistics if chosen armor is a vest because relying on nothing but dodge to survive looks like a meme choice. Unless getting unarmed feats for a dual-specialization in energy pistols and fist weapons is a better choice than the previous ones.

Lots of careful balancing of skill points will be required, for despite high INT, it's quite stretched in skill distribution, not as much as the last one though. With psionics for TM, only 3 CON and dodge as the primary defense once stealth is no longer applicable, this will be the glassiest glass cannon I ever tried in UnderRail. I expect the usual battle to involve: either sneak, dodge, evade or die.

Also using pistols but on the opposite side of the tank vs glass spectrum(in theory), is the final one.


4) Hardcore Grammaton Cleric

*Edit: Changed plans for this one. Thick Skull won't help much when the build is all about staying at less than 30% health. Best defense for a gunslinger is to shoot first and one-shot.

Start: https://underrail.info/build/?AQQKAwkGAwUPDwAPAAAPCQcAAAoAAA8EAAAADwAAABdi378

Planned "Finished" Build(Mark II): https://underrail.info/build/?EAUNAwkGAwVGIgBaAAA8RR8AAFpBEg8zAAAAWgAAJRdiKw46AlvDkcOSGsKHwqPivYQB378

(Very) Loosely based upon the Grammaton "Clerics" and their Gun-Kata martial art (or Gun-Fu if you prefer) from the movie Equilibrium, this is a very stretched thin character plan in skill points distribution until all feats that require a minimum in base guns skill are sated. Then melee will carry on improving that with ever increasing DEX. While in theory a tank build, in practice most of the game will be played with health below 30% for Survival Instincts. Ambush is a bonus, even when it won't work, critical chance with a hammerer will always be above 50% and a tungsten serrated knife won't be lagging too much behind.

Doctor is a must-have for QoL with Survival Instincts because it allows far more accurate limited healing with bandages to ensure the character will always stay as close to only slightly less than 30% health as possible, and no cooldowns for healing outside of turn based combat too.

Rapid Fire really improves things and makes the hammerer an authentic .44 Grammaton Cleric handgun with burst capabilities while bullet time is still many further levels away. After it it becomes an one-handed Huszar that can, if luck is favorable, put down a burrower in a single 3-round burst even without W2C bullets. Ditching Thick Skull for more DEX also means that by the end game, with eel sandwich bonus and the improved dexterity veteran feat rising it to 18, Full spec Bullet Time will reduce hammerer single shot AP costs to 8 without rapid reloader, even less with a RR, while also bringing better knifing and pistol AP costs earlier, in addition to more crits with knives.

Gun-Fu would be a lot more useful if it also allowed 0 AP reloads every time something is killed by your character pistols (not a ripped off idea from DoomRL). Still went for it for flavor reasons and once Bullet Time specialization is complete will put all into it as it is more efficient than putting spec points into Versatility. Then either pick more tank feats or more pistol feats that don't need more than 6 PER and are worth picking, or maybe vile weaponry and other knife feats, tungsten serrated knives will be used even without any knife-specific feats. Nimble is always a good choice in any build that benefits from movement to have it without giving up protection and shooting point-blank is the best way to maximize damage in this one. Probably Nimble will be the level 18 feat of choice, quite late because other more important or thematically appropriate feats had to be taken first. By that it will make much more of a difference than before because the quality of black cloth and other components for crafting tabi found in the shops will be much higher and the final movement points will make a 15% change pretty significant. Hoarding points for tailoring at levels 17 and 18 depending on what Blaine, Core City or other traders have available as the highest quality components for sale will be an option if existing skill proves insufficient for it.

Gear will be a tactical overcoat with no more than 35% base armor penalty, tabi, smart goggles and a bullet strap belt.

Weapons will be a crafted rapid reloader smart .44 Hammerer and tungsten serrated knife for its greater critical damage bonus. While fists may be better, it's also for the sake of not being too samey. It would be wasteful to not make use of high DEX and melee skill even if during the first half of character levels there won't be any melee specialized feat. Wasteland Hawk is not better than a high quality hammerer and the other .44 gun belongs to a legend that doesn't deserve to be killed only for the sake of a revolver(plus all the crit boosts for this build makes such revolver high crit chance overkill anyway).

I expect distributing skill points will be somewhat tricky until level 20 or so. Some compromises will be needed, but throwing is way too good to discard in the absence of AoE psionics.

Versatility is picked very late because only at level 16 melee finally starts boosting guns despite the required 70 points put in it. for bullet time.

I expect this particular one to be as !FUN! as the dodge-focused energy pistol + fists glass cannon, and doubt either would endure in Dominating.

Hope this first thread of mine was good and these ideas will be a bit helpful to some newbies to the game. One more thing, I wouldn't recommend the last two builds as references for beginners, they are both very gimmicky in different ways and intentionally sub-optimal although compared to older versions, pistols are much stronger now.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 05:04:37 pm by Cassidy »

Bruno

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These builds are interesting and well explained, thanks for the effort.

Cassidy

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An update for the energy pistol and fists 10 AGI 10 INT glass cannon. This is how it is right now in-game, in Junkyard, plus a description of how it was:

https://underrail.info/build/?BwMJCgMDAwoZDwAtLS0VDw0AABogAAQgAAAAIwAAB8KjMSskwpog378

Early game was pretty much at the whim of the RNG, lots of dying and F9 presses just as predicted, fists did most of the damage against rathounds and crafting a taser right before the first quest was essential. Putting down foes in only one turn, trying to stealthily defeat them 1 vs 1 whenever possible with fists and hit with only one punch then run with all remaining AP and MP when outnumbered were necessary. Barely used the starter 5mm pistol at all. The psi beetles near mushroom cove were slowed down with caltrops and mostly defeated through temporal distortion. The experience with this build continued like that until the crafting that changed everything was finally ready and affordable.

One key thing done in this playthrough was trading SGS credits for Stygian coins every time the inventories of Old Jonas and Jack Quicksilver replenished between the first two quests and before the GMS compound one.

While that ensure some decent supply of coins, it was still not enough. Went through the lower passages to hunt stalkers for their highest value loot, repaired when needed, to sell in Junkyard for the sake of having enough to buy components for the first energy pistol and a vest. With >= 7 AGI it is a lot easier and cheaper to get early into the electronics shop there. An energy pistol frame and a reasonable quality laser emitter were already found for free from looting containers. Just a power core and a decent enough CWA left. Furthermore funds were spent on an insulated vest component and only that for a low quality ballistic panel was also already scavenged and it was no big deal at this point in the game to accept using such low quality stuff to save funds for the carrier vest quality is more important.

Once the shopping in Junkyard was done, its costs plus the fee for the boat trip back to SGS and some battery purchases, all cash from the character was spent besides 1 Stygian coin, but it was more than worth it. At level 4 with High Technicalities, seeker goggles with 7% crit chance bonus, an amplified laser pistol and a great ballistic overcoat, all of which had their crafting assisted by the temporary skill buff from an under pie, GMS was a breeze despite stretched skills distribution making lockpicking too low to gain access to all ventilation shafts there. At level 4 bare fists were the "sidearms" because there was not enough cash or mechanical skill to craft decent pneumatic gloves. Those low tier robots in GMS were barely a threat then.

The actual development in-game went very slightly off from the original plan with a few points put into biology for crafting vests with psi beetle carapace. For any character that needs the best armor that will fit in with the Nimble and Lightning Punches feats, there is likely no better armor than any tactical overcoat enhanced with such as long as it's not one of the heavier types like galvanic that will disable LP even with Nimble, being at 20% penalty. Later a galvanic one without carapace will be a situational spare armor worth having regardless. A little armor penalty for a 22% mechanical DR and 9 DT boosted to 27 against gunfire is great and with 10 AGI it won't render dodge and evasion useless even with the additional penalty from goggles.

Current gear is a sturdy psionic overcoat with a +19 stealth bonus, no need for a separate stealthier alternative with lower armor penalty here, at least not on Hard, the same seeker goggles crafted just before GMS, an utility belt because I didn't bother replacing with with something more useful like a doctor bag and cave hopper leather boots because tabis or the crafting recipe for them weren't yet found.

The first laser pistol is still in use because against anything resilient to heat damage it's better than plasma and 3 20% crit chances with 176% crit damage bonus per turn is arguably better than a single 19% one with 217% dmg bonus  even if whenever the latter happens it can deal over 250 damage and one-shot maybe anything at this point. That 19% comes from a more recently crafted, higher quality efficient amplified plasma pistol that costs 35 AP, or 34 per shot with eel sandwich, leaving 16 AP for more 2 punches with pneumatic gloves in one turn. Didn't craft a shock pistol because the RNG has yet to spawn a shock component around quality 60, the best found in Junkyard shops. Will craft motion seeking and seeker NVGs just before Depot A because memorizing mine locations and F9 is less convenient.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 08:22:21 pm by Cassidy »