evasion and dodge, what is it good for?

[mahe4]

hi,
i tried to understand the game mechanics a little better, because the wiki is a bit vague with it's explanaitions.
so i cheated a character with all base stats to 10 and all skills to 500
i had 500 dodge and evasion 754 with the base stats bonus.
i thought, that is incredibly high and just attacked a guard in the start basement.
3 shots 3 hits and i was dead.
so now my question. what is evasion good for if guards still have 100% accuracy on you?
does evasion even matter?

[mahe4]

ok i expected, that it could be to high.
another question. is there a viable way yet to play an unarmed character without that immensly high psi cost of "psi punching"?
and back to evasion. is it later a reliable stat? i mean, will you evade most attacks from guns and such?

[Elhazzared]

I've tried for a character with high evasion and dodge and what I found out it's that it's not reliable at all. I got at best one out of 3 dodges. Dodge and evasion is not supposed to make you untouchable, they are damage mitigation much like like any armor, thing is, armor reduces damage per attack and dodge/evasion will every now and then make you completly avoid an attack so it kinda balances out how much damage both mitigate.

Here's the thing though (and note this is my personal opinion, not everyone has to see it that way). With an armor, you just put it on and the damage mitigation is there. With dodge and evasion you are effectively wasting skills points.

So is it viable? I suppose it is, but it certainly is a lot worse than just wearing armor... As for mellee as a main focus, I'd say it's not impossible by any streach of the imagination, but it's probably the hardest build. I see mellee working better as an alternative, as your secondary attack type rather than primary.

So if you're idea is making a martial artist... Well it's possible, but you're in for a world of pain.

[mahe4]

thanks to you two.
that were exactly the information i was searching for
for now i won't make an martial artist.

[UnLimiTeD]

Even before the combat gloves a puncher was possible, though I still needed PSI.
Not for the punches, but to stun and electrocute.
Kicking enemies in the crown jewels with serrated blades and hugging them with spiked armour worked rather well, but it was hard, no lies.
I'm not actually sure I'd do better nowadays, the gloves are slower.

[Spambot]

Hmm... I had a evade/doge/armored character on my first export/import build...
When I got stuck in junkyard I started on a new character that skips evade/dodge entirely..
The difference is pretty significant from what i can tell... On my original build I used some cheap 46% steel armor..
On my second build I have the better tungsten armor and even constitution perk (one that gives 10% damage reduction)
Yet the second build is much weaker when it comes as taking hits.. The first easily took blasts from aimed shot sniper rifles as I went on a npc rampage.
The second one melts... Ofcourse both builds are weak to psi attacks, but dodge/evade seem to help even massively encumbered characters... *shrugs*

[Barrelsoup Chef]

In my experience dodge and evasion can be very helpful, if you wanna play stealthy it's kinda handy if you pick light armor. At first I thought that this wouldn't work out well because of the huge amount of damage you would still take from your enemy's when you don't dodge or evade (also because of the light armor), therefor making the points invested in dodge and evasion seem like a waste.

Though I was surprised to see that this isn't the case at all. Because you make those very powerful (and VERY rewarding) Cut-Throat attacks, you can fight the enemy in smaller numbers. Also I had times I dodged/evaded 5 or even 6 attacks in a row. Because this build got lots of movement point retreating is very easy, unlike any other build that uses medium or heavy armor.

Even though I can't spend as many points on other skills, high movement + stealth (+ dodge and evasion) is a really great combo and isn't much weaker then other builds (in my opinion). I have to admit, I can't wait when the shields are implemented. When you DON'T dodge/evade 6 times in a row, thinks can get frustrating

EDIT: Encumbrance is below 20% + the feat Nimble helps a lot! (20%-15%=5%)

[Styg]

Encumbrance = direct penalty to your dodge, evade, stealth and movement points. So dodge and evade really don't help a character who's wearing heavy armor (encumbrance can go up to 95%!)

If you were taking blasts with the evade/dodge character, that means they didn't help - dodge/evade only give you a chance to completely avoid melee/ranged hits respectively, but they don't reduce any damage taken.

Evasion does reduce area of effect damage taken, though (grenades, pyrokinesis, etc).

[Spambot]

Epeli.. I know the way the mechanics should work... What I was saying, it made a huge difference somehow when it should not have...
Unless there is a massive difference in encumbrance between steel and tungsten armors...

[Styg]

@Styg:
Whoops. Yeah, I should've said it doesn't reduce any direct damage taken. And dodge reduces aoe damage from traps, right.

No, evasion reduces all types of AoE damage, including traps.

[Styg]

@Styg:
Whoops. Yeah, I should've said it doesn't reduce any direct damage taken. And dodge reduces aoe damage from traps, right.

No, evasion reduces all types of AoE damage, including traps.

Now I'm kinda lost here. I thought dodge would actually reduce trap damage since its description says "Increases your chance to avoid melee attacks and traps." but I've never managed to avoid a trap with dodge.

Can you elaborate on how the dodge trap avoidance works?

I might have forgotten to implement that.  Let me get back to you on that one.