Author Topic: Hammer wizard but with metathermics  (Read 6725 times)

Guehlfirf

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Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« on: September 10, 2021, 11:35:08 am »
Build looks something like this

https://underrail.info/build/?HhADBgkDAwYASwDCoAAAAGQAAEtpaVAoaQAAwqAAAMKgc1U5K0QkKg0uLwotRVAfPcK2fMKB4p20BOKjkwXipYoB4qa4A-KnggLfvw

Heavy armor, balor's hammer, praetorian lawgiver for yell buff.Yell makes enemies tickle you. Grenades, cryostasis and pyroorb control crowds. Exothermic aura for molotov shenanigans.

Quick tinkering and fast metabolism are quality of life feats that can be swapped.

Looking for suggestions to optimize it better. But don't suggest temporal manipulation.

RewRatt

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2021, 12:54:11 pm »
...Quick tinkering and fast metabolism are quality of life feats that can be swapped...
Did you mean Quick Pockets?
My suggestions as to any Tank builds - 6 DEX instead of AGI. Get Paranoia + Trigger Happy on lvl 1 for that sweet 26 Initiative + Root Soda to reach 31. Grenadier later.
I see you want to go for mobility with Nimble and Armor sloping, not max tankyness, but still getting Preatorian Lawgiver with its 30% AP. Don't. get a good PSI Headband. 15% Additive Bonus to Yell is nothing to scoff at, but AP cost is too high for mobility build.
Leave Yell for later, when skill is high enough to matter, get Armor Sloping early. With Spring boots and high Initative you wont need Sprint, espacially with Metathermics reach to pull them in.
Grab Thermodinamicity much earlier - it is one of if not THE best feat for Metathermics. And with grenadier and basic Incendiary grenades you will have the control offered by Pyromaniac without the feat 😄 You should also be practically immune to moving on fire fields thanks to Metal Armor + Boots.

Should be good fun otherwise 😁
Edit: something like this? https://underrail.info/build/?HhAGAwkDAwYAawDCoAAAAGQAAEtpaVAoSQAAwqAAAMKgcyjCg0UrPSpVJA0tRBYuCi_Ctnwf4p20BOKiowHio5MF4qa4A-KnggLfvw
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 01:04:08 pm by RewRatt »

Guehlfirf

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2021, 12:40:20 am »
Did you mean Quick Pockets?
Yes i meant quick pockets. Quick pockets are picked because lifting belt does not allow for more that 2 items slots. Switching them around constantly is a pain.

My suggestions as to any Tank builds - 6 DEX instead of AGI. Get Paranoia + Trigger Happy on lvl 1 for that sweet 26 Initiative + Root Soda to reach 31. Grenadier later.
Leave Yell for later, when skill is high enough to matter, get Armor Sloping early. With Spring boots and high Initative you wont need Sprint, espacially with Metathermics reach to pull them in.
Grab Thermodinamicity much earlier - it is one of if not THE best feat for Metathermics.
Great suggestion with yell and thermodinamicity. As for 3 agility. I tried it, and i never want to do it again. As nice as initiative is, playing low mobility is pure torture. This build is not and ar build that can just stand around and shoot stuff. And 3 will is not enough to make metathermics damage worthwhile.

Spring boots are strange. They do give you movement bonus but this bonus is then reduced by armor penalty. So you get a good spring, lets say quality 105. With 90% armor penalty you get 3! movement points from them. They are obviously not good enough as only source of mobility.

I see you want to go for mobility with Nimble and Armor sloping, not max tankyness, but still getting Preatorian Lawgiver with its 30% AP. Don't. get a good PSI Headband. 15% Additive Bonus to Yell is nothing to scoff at, but AP cost is too high for mobility build.
I don't see how psi headband would be better that lawgiver. Yes ap cost is high but headband bonuses are just not strong for this build. Increasing crit damage and crit chance doesn't synergize well. Build has no crit feats and low crit chance. Decreasing costs, premeditation and thermodinamicity already do that. Additional slot may be useful but i like bonuses from lawgiver more.

You should also be practically immune to moving on fire fields thanks to Metal Armor + Boots.
I can be fully immune to moving on fire with exothermic aura.

RewRatt

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2021, 08:17:28 am »
Great suggestion with yell and thermodinamicity. As for 3 agility. I tried it, and i never want to do it again. As nice as initiative is, playing low mobility is pure torture. This build is not and ar build that can just stand around and shoot stuff. And 3 will is not enough to make metathermics damage worthwhile.
Having extra 3AGI points and/or Sprint, doesn't make a build mobile. Having low Armor Penalty does. And you will boost the psionics damage with Headband Filter for the most used skill.

Spring boots are strange. They do give you movement bonus but this bonus is then reduced by armor penalty. So you get a good spring, lets say quality 105. With 90% armor penalty you get 3! movement points from them. They are obviously not good enough as only source of mobility.
With Steel armor + Metal boots you will have a 51% AP, with Nible (which could be picked up at lvl4 if you wanted, 36% AP.  With Supersteel - Armor + Boots = 25% AP. And that is before Bodyweight Training which is -10% AP. Dude, you can reinforce SS armor with additional plates/add regen vest if you wanted. Boot Springs will grant you alot of MP all the time. You can pick up Q100 Springs from Blaine as early as pre-Drill Parts quest. Q130+ are sold by Oculus trader before even completing Oligarchs Quests.

I don't see how psi headband would be better that lawgiver. Yes ap cost is high but headband bonuses are just not strong for this build. Increasing crit damage and crit chance doesn't synergize well. Build has no crit feats and low crit chance. Decreasing costs, premeditation and thermodinamicity already do that. Additional slot may be useful but i like bonuses from lawgiver more.
You clearly forget Filters. Use the favourite skill Filter in you headband (say, Cryo-Orb) and that is 25-50% damage increase. Then of course a Muffler, to reduce costs by 15-35% and with Premed+ Thermodinamicity, you can spam out some damage. There 30% AP penalty on the Lawgiver is what's the worst. It will be you whole armor set penalty just in a helmet...

I can be fully immune to moving on fire with exothermic aura.
Of course you can. But does it matter when SuperSteel armor will do this passively for you? I meant more like low level stuff, before you can get to Foundry.

Guehlfirf

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2021, 10:22:57 am »
Having extra 3AGI points and/or Sprint, doesn't make a build mobile. Having low Armor Penalty does. And you will boost the psionics damage with Headband Filter for the most used skill.

You're right. 6 Agi does nothing for mobility. 3 extra movement points is negligible. Sprint is very strong though. But I'm starting to think that convenience of high initiative might be worth the tradeoff. Maybe you can get same effect from jumping bean and adrenaline.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 04:01:37 am by Guehlfirf »

RewRatt

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2021, 11:14:57 am »

Having extra 3AGI points and/or Sprint, doesn't make a build mobile. Having low Armor Penalty does. And you will boost the psionics damage with Headband Filter for the most used skill.

You're right. 6 Agi does nothing for mobility. 3 extra movement points is negligible. Sprint is very strong though. But I'm starting to think that convenience of high initiative might be worth the tradeoff. Maybe you can probably get same effect from jumping bean and adrenaline.
Annoyingly, you have to wear Lifting-Belt, so 10AP cost to take the Jumping Bean pills 😄 But still worth it when you can.
And Sprint is amazing, but with 2 round duration and 10 round cooldown... hmm.. yeah. It is situational. If I had to choose between that and light and mobile Metal Armor, I know what I go for. And I value Initiative very much on non-Stealth builds. You won't be starting a lot of fights half hp, crippled, dazed, incapped, etc. 😄😅

Hammer Wizard

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2021, 06:12:19 am »
>Quick Pockets
>Paranoia
>Trigger Happy
>Grenadier
This is less of a hammer wizard and more of a generalist.
Next thing you're going to say is recommending TM

My recommendation is going 7 Will, Stoicism is great and is too good to pass, as well making your casting actually good.
Stop relying on grenades and traps, leave throwing at 10 maximum and traps at 0, boosting detection on a shaded metal helmet 3 PER build is dumb, you're not supposed to not detect anything, you're supposed to either tank it or play outside the box, like using exo aura to ward off crawlers.
3 AGI is an experiencie, you dont need to move when you're very tanky and you have mad damage from ranged sources: thats why tin can AR is so good.
Also not having Thick Skull will hurt, and unless you play to run TiChrome/SS, armor sloping on Tungsten will be virtually useless.

Mind you, I dont think MT is a good psi school, as matter of fact it's pretty bloody good, I simply dont agree with QoL choices, which makes the build less of a hammer wizard and more of your average generalist.
*Snort*

RewRatt

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 08:19:24 am »
>Quick Pockets
>Paranoia
>Trigger Happy
>Grenadier
This is less of a hammer wizard and more of a generalist.
Next thing you're going to say is recommending TM

My recommendation is going 7 Will, Stoicism is great and is too good to pass, as well making your casting actually good.
Stop relying on grenades and traps, leave throwing at 10 maximum and traps at 0, boosting detection on a shaded metal helmet 3 PER build is dumb, you're not supposed to not detect anything, you're supposed to either tank it or play outside the box, like using exo aura to ward off crawlers.
3 AGI is an experiencie, you dont need to move when you're very tanky and you have mad damage from ranged sources: thats why tin can AR is so good.
Also not having Thick Skull will hurt, and unless you play to run TiChrome/SS, armor sloping on Tungsten will be virtually useless.

Mind you, I dont think MT is a good psi school, as matter of fact it's pretty bloody good, I simply dont agree with QoL choices, which makes the build less of a hammer wizard and more of your average generalist.
You are some sort of purist? Grenadier is mainly for Flashbangs, Gas Grenades and EMP's. Don't have to use damaging grenades much. Molotovs for Crowd Control.
Wielding a Hammer and casting <Methathermics> Spells is a definition of Hammer Wizzard. QOL Feats are there exactly for that - Quality of Life 😆 You can bang you head against the wall if you wish.
There is a point of course by going 95% Phys Resist and no mobility. But then you will be Wizzarding more and less Hammering. So 7Will and Stoicism would be valid then.
Quote
unless you play to run TiChrome/SS, armor sloping on Tungsten will be virtually useless.
Would never suggest Tungsten Armor Sloping. But basic Metal can be done at the start. 10-13% AP difference only and it is early game after all.

He did mention that he want's CC and some occasional damage on this build. With say a Cryo-Orb Filter he can even do some alpha-strike blasting. But he is a mobile Hammerer otherwise. 😄

Hammer Wizard

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2021, 05:01:54 pm »
>You are some sort of purist?
No, I just play builds that actually make sense thematically.

>Grenadier is mainly for Flashbangs, Gas Grenades and EMP's.
You dont really need those when you're extremely tanky, extremely powerful at melee combat and have PSI at your disposal. 3 DEX with minimum throwing will do it.
The only argument you could make is that since it mainly uses MT and not PK (the original Hammer Wizard I created), you take grenadier to better handle bots since MT is very bad against bots, but I'm still very skeptical.

>Don't have to use damaging grenades much. Molotovs for Crowd Control.
Then stay at 3 DEX, metathermics is better replacement than Grenadier.

>Wielding a Hammer and casting <Methathermics> Spells is a definition of Hammer Wizzard.
The very definition of a hammer wizard is a very tanky, very strong melee combatant and psi caster, that's it's whole trope.
What I see on the original build is, besides the QoL, is being a Nimble Can, which in itself is not a bad thing but it's an entirely different build I'm not sure you can really fit on a regular hammer wizard build. Mind you, if you can, congratulations, you did good, but otherwise I think you will be streching yourself too thin. Also being a nimble can justifies the 6 AGI, whereas my Hammer Wizard was a slow tungsten tank with 3 AGI and 0 MP.
By far the most outraging feature of the original build is the 3 Will, why would you 3 Will if you're a hybrid psi build that will heavily use a single school? It makes no sense since you also need the damage from your ranged sources. 3 Will is what a TM builds use a crutch, but hammer wizard actually needs a strong psi school to get by. I highly disagree with 3 Will.

>QOL Feats are there exactly for that - Quality of Life 😆 You can bang you head against the wall if you wish.
Hammer Wizard is one of the top builds in Underrail, if you feel you need to heavily QoL on feats and otherwise you feel like banging your head against the wall, then you're doing something very wrong.

>But then you will be Wizzarding more and less Hammering?
No? In reality it's 50% 50%, you hammer everything that gets in melee range and cast Psi on anything that stays away from your melee range.
With this same logic of yours, I could say if you take grenadier you will be less of a hammerer and more of a grenadier, and that also would be of course false.

>But basic Metal can be done at the start. 10-13% AP difference only and it is early game after all.
Taking a feat that only will work on early/mid game feels like a complete waste unless he plans to stay with TiChrome and/or Super Steel.
*Snort*

RewRatt

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2021, 07:22:06 pm »
>But basic Metal can be done at the start. 10-13% AP difference only and it is early game after all.
Taking a feat that only will work on early/mid game feels like a complete waste unless he plans to stay with TiChrome and/or Super Steel.
Missed the point. Early on you can find only Steel or Tungsten. So you can use Steel and still not lose that much compared to SS. Tichrome is a bit weak.

Quote
>Grenadier is mainly for Flashbangs, Gas Grenades and EMP's.
You dont really need those when you're extremely tanky, extremely powerful at melee combat and have PSI at your disposal. 3 DEX with minimum throwing will do it.
The only argument you could make is that since it mainly uses MT and not PK (the original Hammer Wizard I created), you take grenadier to better handle bots since MT is very bad against bots, but I'm still very skeptical.
What do you mean by extremely tanky? 😅 You only have Phys resist to back you up and whatever shield does for you. You get PSI Inhibited, as you are not very mobile, and then you are just a stationary damage sponge. I don't think Metathermics can "Blow things up" even at 7WILL to reliably guarantee safety. Also Quad Nagas. - all these things are what Grenadier helps you with. 2 turns between EMP MK3, 2 turns Incendiaries. Flashbangs might be too long to wait even with it, but a solid skill investment into throwing will not hurt.
I also fail to see thematics, when every single enemy with a grenade in their inventory will lob it at you....
Quote
The very definition of a hammer wizard is a very tanky, very strong melee combatant and psi caster, that's it's whole trope.
How? Why? 😄 Does it say Tanky Hammer Wizzard? You can be a super mobile, mobile/tanky and immobile/super-tanky Hammerer + Wizzard shenanigans and there you go 😆 Guys original build involved AP reducing Feats for Metal Armor, so I assumed the <mobile/tanky>.

Quote
By far the most outraging feature of the original build is the 3 Will, why would you 3 Will if you're a hybrid psi build that will heavily use a single school? It makes no sense since you also need the damage from your ranged sources. 3 Will is what a TM builds use a crutch, but hammer wizard actually needs a strong psi school to get by. I highly disagree with 3 Will.
He said it's for CC mainly. And I agree with that. It is not Thought Control, and doesn't get resisted due to low skill. I also mentioned, that he can throw out some damage on a skill with a Filter.

Quote
Hammer Wizard is one of the top builds in Underrail, if you feel you need to heavily QoL on feats and otherwise you feel like banging your head against the wall, then you're doing something very wrong.
Didn't realize that. I thought it was one of the more Fringe and less loved weapons. I can imagine dozens more powerful builds. One thing it has going for it for sure is some reach with PSI, compared to pure melee.

Anyways. 😅😅
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 07:38:33 pm by RewRatt »

Hammer Wizard

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2021, 08:27:21 pm »
>Early on you can find only Steel or Tungsten.
Tungsten definely no, Steel is too bad to use.
You can also get TiChrome pre depot A, past the second mercantile check from Blaine, and with enough perserverance (Or merchant refresh) you can get 70 quality TiChrome bars before tackling on the mutants.

> Tichrome is a bit weak.
Picture related
Yes but not as much as you'd think.
TiChrome dense padding helmet
TiChrome regen armor
TiChrome dense padding with strider
Sporting 43 MP currently, waiting for my Super Steel set to kick in currently.
For the somewhat decent mobility you get, these are pretty decent stats
All of this with fully spec'd Armor Sloping

>What do you mean by extremely tanky? 😅
Original hammer wizard is a tungsten tank with a lot of damage reduction, so he's extremely tanky, but you're right this is not exacly extremely tanky, but can still take a punch and dish it back

>You only have Phys resist to back you up
You forgot huge heat and energy resistances, and mech resistances aint that bad

>You get PSI Inhibited,
Dont get PSI inhibited, alternatively, use Psi reinvigorator. Regular Hammer Wizard can also use Force Field to take cover from psi interrumption, but I see you dont get that luxury, instead relying on MP.

>and then you are just a stationary damage sponge
Are you implying you're completely defenseless and useless in these situations? Because I can assure you're not.
Grenades, reinvigorator, high fortitude, high resolve, high survivality, LoS breaking around corners, making enemies come to you.
The only case what you say would be true, is getting permanely and repeatly acid entangled, but that's a fringe situation.

>I don't think Metathermics can "Blow things up" even at 7WILL to reliably guarantee safety.
It definely can, not as much as a pure psion can, but you still are able to wreck some havok.

>Also Quad Nagas
Hammerers are the best build to trash robots, your physical might along with a single mk3 EMP should win you the whole encounter.

>when every single enemy with a grenade in their inventory will lob it at you....
And? What? Does it stop you from playing? Grenadier is not needed at all.

>How?
By being a metal wearer, having 9 CON, by having tanking feats, drugs, etc.
>Why?
What kind of question is that?
>Does it say Tanky Hammer Wizzard?
Hammer Wizard implies a tank build. Hammerers are by default tanks. Glass cannon hammerers are the exception to the rule, and are very rare to see as builds.

>mobile/tanky and immobile/super-tanky Hammerer + Wizzard shenanigans
Yeah, I already played both archetypes.

*Snort*

Guehlfirf

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2021, 12:45:32 am »
Build is meant to be mobile man in metal armor. Who blows half the enemies and freezes most dangerous one and the cleans up with a hammer. I would prefer to use spring boots and balors hammer.

>Quick Pockets
>Paranoia
>Trigger Happy
>Grenadier
This is less of a hammer wizard and more of a generalist.
Quick pockets are pure convince so that i don't have to swap emp and flashes. Paranoia and trigger happy are for initiative. Don't care much for grenadier.

My recommendation is going 7 Will, Stoicism is great and is too good to pass, as well making your casting actually good.
I really doubt that stoicism is that good. And stoicism does nothing for casting. 7 will is nice even better 8 will and psionic mania but there is really no points to spare. Losing the initiative is not fun. Trying to enter combat manually every time is not fun. At least for me.

3 will is point economy. Cryostasis works 100% of the time. Pyromaniac does not scale with skill as far as i know. Exothermic aura again no need for skill.

3 AGI is an experiencie, you dont need to move when you're very tanky and you have mad damage from ranged sources: thats why tin can AR is so good.
I really could not enjoy playing tungsten. I feel like you have to have ranged attacks or you're in for a bad time. And this build does not really have much of that.

Also not having Thick Skull will hurt, and unless you play to run TiChrome/SS, armor sloping on Tungsten will be virtually useless.
Yeah thick skull is great but it can be easily replaced with cryostasis. See the guy named "I will stun you next round". Boom. Frozen. No stun for me.

Quad nagas are not a problem for a hammer.

Hammer Wizard

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2021, 04:59:05 pm »
>I really doubt that stoicism is that good
HERESY! Stoicism is probably one of the best feats in the game, and probably has the best specialization of the whole game.
Any tank build that can actually get it will automatically become much superior.

>And stoicism does nothing for casting
It doesnt need to, it makes you stupidly hard to kill, giving you more turns to survive and throw more grenades and MT spells

>7 will is nice even better 8 will and psionic mania
You dont need it

>Losing the initiative is not fun.
You're playing a tin can hammer build, having rock bottom initiative is the normal thing to happen.
If you want to have initiative, play literally anything else, this build is not a hare, but a tortoise. Play like it.

>Trying to enter combat manually every time is not fun.
Only if there are thought controllers around, then otherwise you dont really need to manually start combat, you can roll last on an entire fight and survive just fine

>3 will is point economy.
Might as well add TM since you will get a better point action economy.
You will add to a very basic generalist build.
*Snort*

Drizzle

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2021, 12:28:25 am »
Hammer Wizard works because its max strength has a twofold use - Balor's and Corporeal Projection. When you use any other psi school that isn't PK, strength drops in usefulness and it's harder to justify max strength when you could get more mobility or better psi. Hammer also works best as a tank build because Fancy Footwork has minimal utility with only 3 strikes at most on a 50 AP turn, and Hit and Run is affected by Armor Penalty. You're reduced to only a couple of choices for MP: Sprint, Super Steel armor (which makes you more vulnerable to melee compared to Tungsten), Jumping Beans, Contraction, and Escape Artist which needs too much investment for little reward (7 Dex AND specialization points to get MP, not to mention it's on a cooldown and is entirely conditional unlike Sprint). Even if you were to go for SS armor and minmaxed everything, you'd barely scratch the low end of 100 MP for a couple turns, and you'd be giving up a few key things that hammer builds like to go for. Really, just lower Strength a little bit for Wil, stick to a tungsten or TiChrome hammer, and only use Balor's when buffed with Vitality Powder (situational but still useful).

Dexterity should be 3 for hammers unless you're building for crits, but that requires a *very* specific build which leaves your melee capabilities lacking compared to a hammer wizard. Tanks just don't really get much use out of initiative - you're not an alpha striker. Quick Pockets is simply SHIT and should not be taken on most builds. Grenadier makes it so you rely too heavily on grenades instead of using your build to damage shit. Trigger Happy should only be taken if you're challenging yourself with Ironman, otherwise savescumming will do if you really need to go first, and you don't because you're a tank. Staying with the initiative feats, Paranoia is overrated because of the wide availability of Detection boosting buffs and equipment and its only upside is not having any requirements to get 5 extra initiative; and let me tell you, 5 points won't make that much difference by themselves.

Even if you're to go for Super Steel armor, I would still recommend Sprint. It helps so much as a gap closer. The only time I would not get Sprint on a tank is if my stat spread simply does not allow me to get 6 Agi without sacrificing other feats that I consider more important.

9 Con is mandatory, full stop. 10 Con for Thick Skull is optional, I don't consider it as good on a tank as on a dodge evasion build, but even there, Bullheads will cover you for the harder fights. Last Stand just gives you much needed tanking ability that will let you survive those extra turns needed to end a fight. Juggernaut, Conditioning, Stoicism, all these require decent to high Con already. And let's not forget Fast Metabolism, which makes Regeneration Vests go from amazing to god tier, and helps with psi boosters on top of that. Mechanical damage is the most common in this game by far, and anything else is far behind enough that you can prepare for it and switch out for the appropriate equipment.

You DEFINITELY want 7 Wil for Stoicism. Even hammer berserkers get it, it's not to be underestimated. It will also help with damage for MT, which even if you got mostly for Pyromaniac and the non-scaling spells, you will still find yourself using it often for ranged damage. There's no workaround, all builds want a ranged option. And as a certain boar has said, 3 Dex Throwing is still useful, mainly because hammer as a weapon is very low on feat and skill point requirements so they can get a lot of shit as they want. Higher Wil will make your MT stronger, but it will also take away from your other stats which will see higher use.

6 Int is of course needed on a SS tank. It might still be good on a tungsten tank due to Premeditation, but otherwise, 5 Int is the minimum: you absolutely want Expose Weakness.

If you want to wear the Praetorian Lawgiver, it's best on a tungsten tank. It will hamper your mobility too much on a SS tank. Besides, Yell is already good enough with its specialization bringing it to 50% of Intimidation score. Besides, your helmet slot will be better spent on a psi headband.



I'll give you the 101 on Metathermics. Cold spells: SHIT. Thermodinamicity will not justify itself unless you're focusing on psi, in which case just play a pure psi build.

Cryostasis affects ONE target for TWO turns unless you get Cryogenic Induction, but what the hell are you doing specializing in single target CC/damage when Underrail has 6+ enemy NPCs on average every fight? And add a high psi point cost and cooldown on top of that, it's awful. I have never used this spell.
Cryokinesis is "decent" if you're a Psychosis pure psion, but you're not.
Cryo Orb is the only good cold spell, and guess what: it needs Psionic Mania or it just won't be worth a slot compared to a fire spell.
Cryogenic Barrier - I don't think I need to explain why it sucks.
Cryo Shield - why are you relying on a 50% chance to protect you from only MELEE damage when you're a tank?

Now take a look at fire spells.

Pyrokinesis isn't very good for damage unless you're a crit build, but with Pyromaniac, it still kinda works as an AoE fear. I say kinda because it's still only a 50% chance. Good with Premeditation though.
Pyrokinetic Stream is the outlier in fire, being not very good and needing you to specialize in it for it to be any good. It's still an okay last ditch attempt at fear early game if you've got Pyromaniac.
Exothermic Aura is great, giving you fire immunity and screwing with meele NPC AI. And it's budget Escape Artist with its ability to burn a net.
Thermodynamic Destabilization is fucking amazing; when applied from full HP, it will severely injure if not outright kill other NPCs when it goes off. And if you're a tungsten tank, you will resist most of its damage, giving you no reason not to close in for the kill. SS tanks can also resist most of it but only late game. This is the one spell that you want to max Metathermics for if you're still doubting.
Plasma Beam was a great addition to MT, giving you energy damage to deal with those pesky bots. Unfortunately, it won't see much use on a hammer build outside of hoards of bots where you want AoE damage, or Fetid Marsh. It's still a better use of a slot than Cryokinesis or Pyro Stream.

Guehlfirf

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Re: Hammer wizard but with metathermics
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2021, 03:35:34 pm »
Great suggestions

Except they boil down to playing tungsten tank. Which is the opposite of what i want.

>Hammer Wizard works because its max strength has a twofold use - Balor's and Corporeal Projection.
Yeah great synergy with strength. I lose some efficiency by going metathermics here. Still it's a build choice if i wanted to play tungsten psycokinesis tin can, i would.

>Really, just lower Strength a little bit for Will
Why? I can drop agility and dex for will.

>Quick Pockets is simply SHIT and should not be taken on most builds
You say it yourself hammer has a lot of free feats. Yes quick pockets can be swapped. I just did not find a worthwhile feat.

>Grenadier makes it so you rely too heavily on grenades instead of using your build to damage shit.
This is correct.

>Trigger happy and paranoia
Total 12 bonus initiative, sounds significant. I could not give less of a shit about detection. Crawlers are countered with yell, traps are countered with traps.

>You DEFINITELY want 7 Will for Stoicism
Really don't get what you both like about stoicism. It and conditioning are just not worth the feat slot. 14% damage reduction after 60% or so reduction. Small percent of damage reduction of a small present of damage. Stoicism is the same you at full hp you get 0% dmg reduction. Some fights i won't go down 20% hp. I does not even work sometimes. And when you stack them at max it's 39% of 40% of damage. So extra 15% of dmg reduction at 1% hp.

>Cryostasis affects ONE target for TWO turns unless you get Cryogenic Induction, but what the hell are you doing specializing in single target CC/damage
Yeah, i admit i speced it just because i like to see people shatter. But also with dirty kick, flashes, fire effects i feel there is enough crowd control. Cryostasis is here just to fuck this guy in particular. He spends 3 turns frozen and then gets shattered at the end. Also great for instakilling high hp enemies. 30% hp in damage to instakill with hammers is not a problem.

>Might as well add TM since you will get a better point action economy.
This hurts.
 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 04:18:38 pm by Guehlfirf »