Author Topic: Attempt at a sword build  (Read 2554 times)

Pherot

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Attempt at a sword build
« on: October 05, 2023, 01:32:40 pm »
So, I´m a new player currently doing a shotgun build, and a friend asked for help with a sword and trap build. Though I haven´t yet played melee I did some research and made a build for him, and wanted confirmation if it´s viable before he tests it. I also threw in a bit of throwing there for a ranged option in times of need.

EDIT: Forgot the link https://underrail.info/build/?CgcLBwYEAwQAKAA8KDwAAAAAMjw3ADc8AAAAAAAAAGE5JsKMMMKZwo7fvw
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 01:41:23 pm by Pherot »

Fins

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Re: Attempt at a sword build
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2023, 03:28:09 pm »
To get the confirmation you seek, it's important to mention which difficulty the build is for. What works just OK in Normal - often won't work in Dominating, etc.

On the other note, there are some things in the build you linked which imho should be changed whatever difficulty it'd be:

- Sure Step. The feat slot is just too valuable to spend on something which only helps fighting mutants - which is far less than quarter of all fights - and even in these fights, something which can be dealth with by using armor which protects against acid. Which armor pieces can both be found and crafted, including before doing any much of Depot A in Junkyard (where lots of mutants are). There are more valuable feats to take at level 1 than Sure Step, especially for melee build (which is generally most sensitive about proper choices made. Specifically, better level 1 feats for stats you posted and having a sword user in mind - are:
-- Opportunist (which can work in almost all fights and is a good damage boost),
-- Hit and Run (having maximum mobility for a melee character is one really good idea);

- level 2 feat: Opportunist is great, and if taken at level 1 per above - then level 2 feat can be Interloper, seeing you got 7 agility. It's a plain +27% faster walk speed in Stealth, effectively improving actual ability to sneak around by that much. Also, 15 extra movement points while in stealth (including when re-entering stealth after sprinting away from too big a fight) - is also useful;

- Perception = 4: why not 3? No skills in the build are based on this stat, and you ain't going to have substantially better times finding secrets or detecting traps / hidden enemies in compare to having just 3 points here. And i think there is not a single feat requiring 4 Per, too. Waste of a stat point imho;

- Dexterity = 11 at lvl 10. Why not 12? Extra point in Dex means permanent damage bonus (as it increases Melee skill), permanent melee accuracy bonus, and permanent bonus to all the skills based on Dex. I'd sure take it;

- Psi Empathy feat but 0 psi skills? Makes no sense to me to get health penalty from this feat while not using any psi abilities it allows to learn;

- Biology 55, Electronics 55, Tailoring 60: not sure what you're intending to craft at level 10 with these skills, crafting at this level - which is still about doing Junkyard / Depot A normally - is rarely of much help. These skill points, imho, can be much better spent into some combination of maxed Lockpicking, Hacking, and possibly some points into Persuasion and/or Mercantile;

- Stealth 0: while it's sure one proper choice to go non-stealthy character, and a chalenge in and of itself, i'd say Stealth is most valuable skill exactly for melee builds among all others. Strongly recommend to consider going stealthy character, unless you really know what you're doing;

- strongly recommend Fancy Footwork feat, which your build meets requirements of - because it works against anything (unlike, say, bleeding wounds which won't work against robots and such), and because you take Flurry. Twice the normal amount of movement points is no small amount, and would often be either a life saver or a tool allowing to save consumables.


Good luck!
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

Pherot

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Re: Attempt at a sword build
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2023, 05:22:01 pm »
To get the confirmation you seek, it's important to mention which difficulty the build is for. What works just OK in Normal - often won't work in Dominating, etc.

On the other note, there are some things in the build you linked which imho should be changed whatever difficulty it'd be:

- Sure Step. The feat slot is just too valuable to spend on something which only helps fighting mutants - which is far less than quarter of all fights - and even in these fights, something which can be dealth with by using armor which protects against acid. Which armor pieces can both be found and crafted, including before doing any much of Depot A in Junkyard (where lots of mutants are). There are more valuable feats to take at level 1 than Sure Step, especially for melee build (which is generally most sensitive about proper choices made. Specifically, better level 1 feats for stats you posted and having a sword user in mind - are:
-- Opportunist (which can work in almost all fights and is a good damage boost),
-- Hit and Run (having maximum mobility for a melee character is one really good idea);

- level 2 feat: Opportunist is great, and if taken at level 1 per above - then level 2 feat can be Interloper, seeing you got 7 agility. It's a plain +27% faster walk speed in Stealth, effectively improving actual ability to sneak around by that much. Also, 15 extra movement points while in stealth (including when re-entering stealth after sprinting away from too big a fight) - is also useful;

- Perception = 4: why not 3? No skills in the build are based on this stat, and you ain't going to have substantially better times finding secrets or detecting traps / hidden enemies in compare to having just 3 points here. And i think there is not a single feat requiring 4 Per, too. Waste of a stat point imho;

- Dexterity = 11 at lvl 10. Why not 12? Extra point in Dex means permanent damage bonus (as it increases Melee skill), permanent melee accuracy bonus, and permanent bonus to all the skills based on Dex. I'd sure take it;

- Psi Empathy feat but 0 psi skills? Makes no sense to me to get health penalty from this feat while not using any psi abilities it allows to learn;

- Biology 55, Electronics 55, Tailoring 60: not sure what you're intending to craft at level 10 with these skills, crafting at this level - which is still about doing Junkyard / Depot A normally - is rarely of much help. These skill points, imho, can be much better spent into some combination of maxed Lockpicking, Hacking, and possibly some points into Persuasion and/or Mercantile;

- Stealth 0: while it's sure one proper choice to go non-stealthy character, and a chalenge in and of itself, i'd say Stealth is most valuable skill exactly for melee builds among all others. Strongly recommend to consider going stealthy character, unless you really know what you're doing;

- strongly recommend Fancy Footwork feat, which your build meets requirements of - because it works against anything (unlike, say, bleeding wounds which won't work against robots and such), and because you take Flurry. Twice the normal amount of movement points is no small amount, and would often be either a life saver or a tool allowing to save consumables.


Good luck!

Yeah psi empathy was a missclick on my part, will tweak the build taking your feedback into consideration. Many thanks! What would you say would be a good level to start investing into crafting skills?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 05:31:32 pm by Pherot »

Fins

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Re: Attempt at a sword build
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2023, 06:05:36 pm »
Assuming we talk sword user, i'd say Mechanics right after getting through main story in Junkyard (Depot A done), so about lvl 12sh: few more levels you'd be good using weapons sold by various merchants you get access to after Depot A (Core City, etc), plus possibly Claymore if you go get it, but quality 50 machete already does 1 point higher minimum damage than Claymore, so it'd make sense to me to max Mechanics starting at say level 12 and getting it maxed for current level by level 16 - at which time much higher than quality 50 machetes can be crafted and used.

Same for Electronics for power cores and modules when crafting them machetes. By level 16 you'd need 2x90 = 180 points spent into these two crafting skills, and with 40 points per level you get 200 skill points for levels 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 - meaning you still keep your Melee maxed during these levels and it's exactly 200. And to craft high quality ones, you'll definitely need 90 hard skill points in these two crafting skills, considering Int 4 hence no bonus effective points to these skills whatsoever. It's 80% of quality needed as effective skill value, so if planning for eventually crafting from quality 160 parts, then 128 effective skill is needed. 90 hard points + Hypercebrix = 105, +3 from food = 108, +15% on top from Your House bench = 124, so almost there. I'd say 93 hard skill points Mechanics and then only increase if really sure about it. As for Electronics, could possibly go with less than 90 due to available late-game gear with Electronic bonuses, yet on the other hand high quality shield emitters require lots more Electronics to make than Machete modules, so i'd still go 90 in Electronics (hard points) too.

Tailoring - i doubt Melee build needs any, at all. Good Ninja Tabi boots can be both found and bought (Constantine regularly sells 2k+ durability ones, that means they are 130+ quality), and spending whole ton of skill points to make a bit better ones does not seem a wise investment. Same for balaclavas. But if going for Tailoring to have all the utility of infused / expedition leather armors, then it's definitely a late-game skill to develop - i'd say possibly very last skill to start investing in, so some 20+ level. Seeing you go high-mobility build, metal and other heavy armors, which one other thing good Tailoring is useful for - is not an option due to high Armor Penalty, too.

Biology - 10 points at level 1 for one of mentioned perks, and 10 more by level 2 if you plan to make Toxic Gas grenades. It much depends on playstyle though; overall these are hard to use for a melee build, for obvious reason. Also requires 20 in Chemistry iirc. Going any higher - i doubt your build should, 'cause of mediocre Int, so it'd be another big skill points investment for rather limited gains. Gonna go high Int if most / all crafting skills with a combat build are desired, me thinks.

Chemistry - entirely depending how much and which ones grenades are to be used. I say, it's really good to have strong grenades for a melee build - a ranged utility for non-ranged character is double important. I'd sure take Grenadier some time mid-game, possibly even grenade-crit feat later on, and i'd develop Chemistry right, or soon, after Mechanics and Electronics all the way to effective 112 to craft tier 5 grenades. With said feats, they can be real powerful, and sometimes it's really helpful to thin out enemies before going melee 'cause there are just way to many.
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

harperfan7

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Re: Attempt at a sword build
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2023, 03:23:56 am »
Check out my siphoner man build.  Itt I mention a nonpsi version with traps.
*eurobeat intensifies*