76
General / Re: Abyss Zero Station L2
« on: August 10, 2019, 04:21:04 am »
Do you have to go through the village to get there?
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
77
General / Re: Expedition stash
« on: August 10, 2019, 01:18:19 am »
Will Aegis leave prematurely if supplies run too low?
What causes supplies to run low?
Is it possible to complete the expansion if they leave?
What causes supplies to run low?
Is it possible to complete the expansion if they leave?
78
General / Re: Underrail Setting is about hell?
« on: August 06, 2019, 04:29:08 am »
Are you sure the "Alpha" symbol with a circle around it isn't an "Anarchy" symbol used by anarchists?
79
General / Re: [Expedition Spoiler] Nexus of Technology
« on: August 05, 2019, 09:50:10 pm »
Yes, I ended up using infused Heartbreaker armour on the route to the Nexus, which was capable of dealing with any insects and serpents on the waterways, and the bugs in the swamps nearby. Then, I switched to some biohazard riot gear with stealth fabric, which has a low armour penalty, and can handle any crap in the spider nests and facility.
I used 400+ SMG rounds and a number of combat consumables to blast my way through all that crap.
I used 400+ SMG rounds and a number of combat consumables to blast my way through all that crap.
80
General / Re: Underrail Setting is about hell?
« on: August 05, 2019, 09:46:51 pm »
The game is called "UnderRail," and it's basically about an Underworld. So it's about an even more classical concept: the underworld.
81
General / Re: Should there be more "cleverness" options in Expedition? [SPOILERS]
« on: August 05, 2019, 06:45:12 am »
Yeah, having the jetski earlier would make things more organic. But I don't know how well that meshes for players who haven't bought the expansion. [Since new waterways were added even in the vanilla game]. If they have Expedition, and can get a jetski early, it could throw off game balance, depending on how much extra stuff is available outside of the Black Sea. The expansion assumes that things are basically the same as in vanilla until you reach the Core City questline.
But yeah, overall, it feels as if there's more "brute force" than "finesse" in this campaign. The vanilla game was more rewarding to players who sneaked around, paid attention to lore or surroundings, and found optimal paths through quests that involved a minimum amount of friction.
In Expedition, this would mean:
1. An alternate entrance to the Nexus of Technology from the Fetid Marsh (I've seen other people exploring this area in the hope of getting in). [Getting in should require exploration and high perception, and possibly obstacle-clearing.]
2. Allowing the player to reactivate the pesticide system in the Horticulture centre. [There could be a few clues about this on computers, signs, or notes. Maybe a sub questline involving someone who was trying to repair the system, and you can find the part on his body.].
3. Maybe being able to exploit the manhole exit from the pirate's jail. A one-way entrance to above the jail from that island. You'd need really high perception, but you could find a route in as long as you cleared the way with some TNT / jackhammering and maybe repaired a gate or something. There could be environmental hazards, too.]
I'm not the only one saying that the Expedition campaign seems to be preferring brute force over razor-like elegant solutions. There's now a thread on Steam:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/1644295532471361294/
Hilariously, I used well over 400 rounds of 8.6mm, at least 50 rounds of 5mm, and a few magazines worth of 8.6mm AP, as well as some grenades and napalm, in order to clear out the Crabs > Spiders > Nexus quest. Plus about 10-12 advanced repair kits. And about 30 small batteries. And that was after I had visited the crab area already, blasting all the wildlife.
But yeah, overall, it feels as if there's more "brute force" than "finesse" in this campaign. The vanilla game was more rewarding to players who sneaked around, paid attention to lore or surroundings, and found optimal paths through quests that involved a minimum amount of friction.
In Expedition, this would mean:
1. An alternate entrance to the Nexus of Technology from the Fetid Marsh (I've seen other people exploring this area in the hope of getting in). [Getting in should require exploration and high perception, and possibly obstacle-clearing.]
2. Allowing the player to reactivate the pesticide system in the Horticulture centre. [There could be a few clues about this on computers, signs, or notes. Maybe a sub questline involving someone who was trying to repair the system, and you can find the part on his body.].
3. Maybe being able to exploit the manhole exit from the pirate's jail. A one-way entrance to above the jail from that island. You'd need really high perception, but you could find a route in as long as you cleared the way with some TNT / jackhammering and maybe repaired a gate or something. There could be environmental hazards, too.]
I'm not the only one saying that the Expedition campaign seems to be preferring brute force over razor-like elegant solutions. There's now a thread on Steam:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/1644295532471361294/
Quote
Sombrelune has Underrail 24 Jul @ 11:26am
I'm agi 10 but i'm stuck with the puzzle in.
I can go back and find a way if u help me after to solve the puzzle in, i realy need a real english speaker it seem and i start to be deseperate :x
So we have a deal ?
Quote
Its not through fetid marsh. Go east from the entrance to the facility, navigate through the caves.
Bring enough supplies, kinda long trip lol.
Quote
Thank you. I managed to get through the skillcheck by combining some items and consumables. Just for the sake of it I did go through the backway and, yeah, I have to say that feels like a really weird change since usually the side paths aren't that horrifically long but that was just over the top.
Quote
you didnt use that agility 10 skillcheck did you? I been searching thru the caves and I see no way thru outside of that skillcheck, and there is no way I can reach the required amount with items
tried to go thru basalt caves thinking it would loop around at some point but I just get a dead end with a ♥♥♥♥ ton of crabs
EDIT: seem to have found it.... had to go just a tiny bit further thru lots of spiders. Leaving this note here for anyone else having the same confusion.
Quote
That wrap around seems completely awkward. Long and resource consuming. Especially that it leads you away from nexus. By the way, a lot of agility checks around that nexus. DLC feels strange, a lot of grind through encounters like hives, crabs and respawning serpents/wyrms for which u cant even be prepared and if your initiative is low ur screwed.
Hilariously, I used well over 400 rounds of 8.6mm, at least 50 rounds of 5mm, and a few magazines worth of 8.6mm AP, as well as some grenades and napalm, in order to clear out the Crabs > Spiders > Nexus quest. Plus about 10-12 advanced repair kits. And about 30 small batteries. And that was after I had visited the crab area already, blasting all the wildlife.
82
General / Re: [Expedition Spoiler] Nexus of Technology
« on: August 04, 2019, 05:05:22 pm »
Since I'm going there too, what weapons / armour do you think I should bring? I'm an SMG character, and have a big armour wardrobe, but I'm not sure about the ammunition (AP / HP / electrical) + grenades / incindiaries).
83
General / Should there be more "cleverness" options in Expedition? [SPOILERS]
« on: August 04, 2019, 05:01:20 pm »
I'm only partway through Expedition, but I think that there might have been some opportunities to improve or diversify quest design for characters who explore and are paying attention. I'm finding that in certain Expedition quests, there's too much of a brute-force approach or lengthy sneaking that is encouraged, instead of razor-like simplicity for intuitive players.
Professor Oldfield Quest (infiltration)
For example, in the quest to rescue Professor Oldfield, a smart character not strong enough to take on the pirates may wish to look for backdoors into the hideout. Of course, you can land on the shore and sneak your way into the prison and escape through the manhole.
You can find the manhole exit by exploring the island it exits onto, and using high perception. But you can't climb up the manhole until it is opened from above. What if the hidden doorway on the manhole island was harder to discover, and you had to use all the perception aid that you could? But if you found it, you could just enter that way? Or is that too easy?
If you are being clever, you will explore areas near the pirates in order to find a landing site, and that island is on the way from the expedition base. So it's pretty clever as it is now: you can find the manhole exit point, and from there deduce where the pirate base (and maybe prison) is.
But what if finding the island manhole exit was even trickier, and the reward is you just get to quickly snatch the professor and get out? Since there are so many perception helpers in Expedition (the colony jelly stuff), I feel that the game encourages such an approach. Anyway, this is only a minor point.*
The Horticultural Centre
It seems to me that you have to sneak or blast your way through many insects in order to get into the centre itself [if you lack agility], from where you have to sneak or blast your way through many insects in order to discover a grown-over console that needs to be herbicided in order to use. So you have to go to the storage level and get the herbicide and then use it in that area.
Then, if you didn't kill all the above-ground insect nests, you might want to do that in order to make water navigation easier.
But shouldn't there be a more clever solution for people willing to use the deduction / skill investment? Right now, the pesticide system in the base is non-functioning. But what if you could sneak around, get a part for the system, install and activate it using electronics / hack / mechanical skills? Then, you pesticide everything in the base, getting rid of the insects and the overgrowth, allowing you to complete the mission, and remove all navigation hazards above the base?
Sure, that would reduce the need for stealthing or fighting, but it would reward players who are mentally alert and paying attention. They still would have had to put skill investment into the relevant repair skills, and would still have to find the part, so it wouldn't be an easy thing that just any player could do. But it would be a more "elegant" resolution, and I think that Underrail is built around such elegance.
Nexus of Technology
Right now, you apparently have to blast / sneak your way through all sorts of crabs and stuff, and then go into an unmarked, convoluted spider cave system in order to finally make it to the Nexus of Technology.
But the map indicates multiple entrances, possibly, to the NoT. It's surrounded by the fetid marsh on several sides. Couldn't one of those sides have a hidden entrance that is revealed with the help of the perception jelly and/or accessed through an agility jump? [Maybe it does, but I don't have the agility to test it.]
It looks from the map as if the NoT might have multiple entrances, so the game should reward a curious player by allowing them in from an alternate location.
I know I may be off-base here, but it just seems as if Expedition lacks some of the 'elegance' that was possible in the vanilla game, such as sneaking to the console in GMS compound and getting the raiders killed with turrets, or the possibility of getting so much done in Depot A just by sneaking around and getting certain components and switches.
*
(Alternately, you could find a different island doorway / route that takes you through some nasty obstacles and monsters, or obstacles that have to be repaired / blasted through), but if you do it, it takes you into a ventilation shaft or ceiling from which you can drop down into the prison, and complete that section as normal. Including escaping via the manhole. Imagine a bigger island section where there's a one-way "ingress" into the prison, as well as the manhole "egress.") So there's no sneaking, and maybe even no combat, but some environmental obstacles that you have to deal with.)
Professor Oldfield Quest (infiltration)
For example, in the quest to rescue Professor Oldfield, a smart character not strong enough to take on the pirates may wish to look for backdoors into the hideout. Of course, you can land on the shore and sneak your way into the prison and escape through the manhole.
You can find the manhole exit by exploring the island it exits onto, and using high perception. But you can't climb up the manhole until it is opened from above. What if the hidden doorway on the manhole island was harder to discover, and you had to use all the perception aid that you could? But if you found it, you could just enter that way? Or is that too easy?
If you are being clever, you will explore areas near the pirates in order to find a landing site, and that island is on the way from the expedition base. So it's pretty clever as it is now: you can find the manhole exit point, and from there deduce where the pirate base (and maybe prison) is.
But what if finding the island manhole exit was even trickier, and the reward is you just get to quickly snatch the professor and get out? Since there are so many perception helpers in Expedition (the colony jelly stuff), I feel that the game encourages such an approach. Anyway, this is only a minor point.*
The Horticultural Centre
It seems to me that you have to sneak or blast your way through many insects in order to get into the centre itself [if you lack agility], from where you have to sneak or blast your way through many insects in order to discover a grown-over console that needs to be herbicided in order to use. So you have to go to the storage level and get the herbicide and then use it in that area.
Then, if you didn't kill all the above-ground insect nests, you might want to do that in order to make water navigation easier.
But shouldn't there be a more clever solution for people willing to use the deduction / skill investment? Right now, the pesticide system in the base is non-functioning. But what if you could sneak around, get a part for the system, install and activate it using electronics / hack / mechanical skills? Then, you pesticide everything in the base, getting rid of the insects and the overgrowth, allowing you to complete the mission, and remove all navigation hazards above the base?
Sure, that would reduce the need for stealthing or fighting, but it would reward players who are mentally alert and paying attention. They still would have had to put skill investment into the relevant repair skills, and would still have to find the part, so it wouldn't be an easy thing that just any player could do. But it would be a more "elegant" resolution, and I think that Underrail is built around such elegance.
Nexus of Technology
Right now, you apparently have to blast / sneak your way through all sorts of crabs and stuff, and then go into an unmarked, convoluted spider cave system in order to finally make it to the Nexus of Technology.
But the map indicates multiple entrances, possibly, to the NoT. It's surrounded by the fetid marsh on several sides. Couldn't one of those sides have a hidden entrance that is revealed with the help of the perception jelly and/or accessed through an agility jump? [Maybe it does, but I don't have the agility to test it.]
It looks from the map as if the NoT might have multiple entrances, so the game should reward a curious player by allowing them in from an alternate location.
I know I may be off-base here, but it just seems as if Expedition lacks some of the 'elegance' that was possible in the vanilla game, such as sneaking to the console in GMS compound and getting the raiders killed with turrets, or the possibility of getting so much done in Depot A just by sneaking around and getting certain components and switches.
*
(Alternately, you could find a different island doorway / route that takes you through some nasty obstacles and monsters, or obstacles that have to be repaired / blasted through), but if you do it, it takes you into a ventilation shaft or ceiling from which you can drop down into the prison, and complete that section as normal. Including escaping via the manhole. Imagine a bigger island section where there's a one-way "ingress" into the prison, as well as the manhole "egress.") So there's no sneaking, and maybe even no combat, but some environmental obstacles that you have to deal with.)
84
General / Re: [Expedition Spoiler] Nexus of Technology
« on: August 04, 2019, 04:37:04 pm »
You know, it's funny. I went to where I was supposed to go, but the Nexus was closed. Nothing openable.
So I cased the joint like a good thief, looking for any entranceways. All around the facility is that stupid swamp, and I blasted my way through it and found no entrances.
Before I did that, though, I landed on K7 and kept walking wherever I could, following the rock wall. I had to fight some crabs, and it eventually led me to the mouth of a spider cave.
I thought to myself, "this looks like it may go beyond the north wall." If true, it might lead to native territory, where I didn't want to go (I had asked the Muties about where the various factions were).
I now understand that the spider cave leads (eventually) to the NoT. So if I had just kept going on my initial exploration, it would have led me right to the NoT as intended. (Instead, I went to the horticultural centre and did that quest).
That's kind of bad design. Because the way into the K7 facility is very protracted and unintuitive. I knew the spider cave would lead somewhere cool, but I wasn't sure it would be the facility.
Despite the awkward design, my intutition had told me to follow the caves, and I didn't listen. So now I'm going back to finish the job.
So I cased the joint like a good thief, looking for any entranceways. All around the facility is that stupid swamp, and I blasted my way through it and found no entrances.
Before I did that, though, I landed on K7 and kept walking wherever I could, following the rock wall. I had to fight some crabs, and it eventually led me to the mouth of a spider cave.
I thought to myself, "this looks like it may go beyond the north wall." If true, it might lead to native territory, where I didn't want to go (I had asked the Muties about where the various factions were).
I now understand that the spider cave leads (eventually) to the NoT. So if I had just kept going on my initial exploration, it would have led me right to the NoT as intended. (Instead, I went to the horticultural centre and did that quest).
That's kind of bad design. Because the way into the K7 facility is very protracted and unintuitive. I knew the spider cave would lead somewhere cool, but I wasn't sure it would be the facility.
Despite the awkward design, my intutition had told me to follow the caves, and I didn't listen. So now I'm going back to finish the job.
85
General / Re: Too bad the stats aren't what I need...
« on: August 03, 2019, 03:46:40 pm »
Do any of the new leather armours give bonuses to stealth?
I seem to remember crafting something in the new expansion, and there was an automatic bonus to stealth.
But maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.
I seem to remember crafting something in the new expansion, and there was an automatic bonus to stealth.
But maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.
86
Builds / Re: Specializations for SMG Character
« on: August 03, 2019, 03:14:44 pm »
Also, special grenades are incredibly useful during the island invasions, because my 7-round bursts are in danger of hitting the Naga Protector at times, which turns it against me. But the gas grenades can be launched right next to it, which hurts the enemies, but not the Naga or Turrets.
87
Builds / Re: Specializations for SMG Character
« on: August 03, 2019, 03:11:56 pm »
Thanks. My character is an old character, from before the expansion and related updates. [Before the nerfing of "Smart" devices giving extra burst damage].
So I am turning it from a "Smart Burst" build into a "Critical Build" like you describe. She already has the Critical Goggles and Focus Stims, and the infused rathound armour is next.
It's funny, the build is based on Wildan's / Nerd Commando's old build for the "Commando / Spec Ops" SMG character, back when the game was new. So it has inefficiences from back before builds were optimized: ballistics, three-pointer, no Full Auto.
Now, I'm turning the build into something more optimized for Underrail: Expedition.
New equipment is needed for new situations. The old Smart Compensated 5mm and 8.6mm SMGs that mowed down enemies with a single 5-round burst aren't cutting it in Expedition. I had to switch to Muzzled Tactical SMGs, spraying 7 bullets with a smaller accuracy bonus. If it doesn't hit who you're aiming at, there's usually plenty of other enemies! I swear, I am doing about 75% of the work during the island invasions. Setting fire to one LZ while rushing over to meet the wave on the opposite end.
In this context, the specialization reducing special grenade cooldown has been immensely helpful. I use about 10 toxic 'nades during each invasion, littering the map with them. I can spam one every turn or two. Finally have a use for the 40 or so Toxic Barrels I collected.
Anyway, yeah, the most helpful specializations for me right now are the grenade cooldown reduction, 9 more AP from kills, and reducing enemy AP via suppression. Since I'm going for a crit-focused build now, I'll be skipping buffs to Expertise.
So I am turning it from a "Smart Burst" build into a "Critical Build" like you describe. She already has the Critical Goggles and Focus Stims, and the infused rathound armour is next.
It's funny, the build is based on Wildan's / Nerd Commando's old build for the "Commando / Spec Ops" SMG character, back when the game was new. So it has inefficiences from back before builds were optimized: ballistics, three-pointer, no Full Auto.
Now, I'm turning the build into something more optimized for Underrail: Expedition.
New equipment is needed for new situations. The old Smart Compensated 5mm and 8.6mm SMGs that mowed down enemies with a single 5-round burst aren't cutting it in Expedition. I had to switch to Muzzled Tactical SMGs, spraying 7 bullets with a smaller accuracy bonus. If it doesn't hit who you're aiming at, there's usually plenty of other enemies! I swear, I am doing about 75% of the work during the island invasions. Setting fire to one LZ while rushing over to meet the wave on the opposite end.
In this context, the specialization reducing special grenade cooldown has been immensely helpful. I use about 10 toxic 'nades during each invasion, littering the map with them. I can spam one every turn or two. Finally have a use for the 40 or so Toxic Barrels I collected.
Anyway, yeah, the most helpful specializations for me right now are the grenade cooldown reduction, 9 more AP from kills, and reducing enemy AP via suppression. Since I'm going for a crit-focused build now, I'll be skipping buffs to Expertise.
88
Bugs / Re: 1.1.0.12 Naga Protector - mIrAcLe of black sea
« on: August 03, 2019, 02:54:52 pm »
NFT technology seems decadent in general. There was the log about the difficulty of maintaining the equipment, which necessitated moving heavy stone panels in order to access the parts. Form over function.
In fact, NFT facilities kind of remind me of the Apple headquarters: the new Apple headquarters ("spaceship campus") had problems with door installation. Apple had mandated to contractors that the doors must have extremely tight tolerances. No reason. Just Apple wanting its building to conform to the design specifications of its smartphones.
It turned out that contractors were having major problems installing the doors, and they were becoming immobile or trapping people or not allowing air to circulate. So that's what happens when some uppity company decides to implement unreasonable aesthetic and design standards in what is supposed to be a functioning facility.
NFT must have been spending way more on construction and maintenance than Biocorp. As they say in war, "the side with the best uniforms - loses." Biocorp designs around standarized, modular parts, and easy maintenance. Sure, their technology is not always pretty. But it appears to have become the standard for all of South Underrail, which has a low budget. Biocorp was probably able to mobilize and field greater military forces than NFT, which was placed on the defensive (and lost).
I haven't played all the campaign yet, but Biocorp appears to have a more mass, quantitative approach, emphasizing affordability and ease of construction / use. Those factors often prove decisive in wartime.
Back to the issue, yeah, the Nagas are whack. And its melee attack is far more devastating. I think I saw it do well over 400 damage, while most of its ranged attacks were doing about 150. The poor performance of some of its defensive equipment would help explain their loss to Biocorp!
In fact, NFT facilities kind of remind me of the Apple headquarters: the new Apple headquarters ("spaceship campus") had problems with door installation. Apple had mandated to contractors that the doors must have extremely tight tolerances. No reason. Just Apple wanting its building to conform to the design specifications of its smartphones.
It turned out that contractors were having major problems installing the doors, and they were becoming immobile or trapping people or not allowing air to circulate. So that's what happens when some uppity company decides to implement unreasonable aesthetic and design standards in what is supposed to be a functioning facility.
NFT must have been spending way more on construction and maintenance than Biocorp. As they say in war, "the side with the best uniforms - loses." Biocorp designs around standarized, modular parts, and easy maintenance. Sure, their technology is not always pretty. But it appears to have become the standard for all of South Underrail, which has a low budget. Biocorp was probably able to mobilize and field greater military forces than NFT, which was placed on the defensive (and lost).
I haven't played all the campaign yet, but Biocorp appears to have a more mass, quantitative approach, emphasizing affordability and ease of construction / use. Those factors often prove decisive in wartime.
Back to the issue, yeah, the Nagas are whack. And its melee attack is far more devastating. I think I saw it do well over 400 damage, while most of its ranged attacks were doing about 150. The poor performance of some of its defensive equipment would help explain their loss to Biocorp!
89
General / Graphite if you have "old" Junkyard?
« on: August 03, 2019, 12:18:54 am »
I recently installed Expedition, and am crafting W2C bullets. But I am low on graphite.
I understand that there is tons of graphite in the Depot in the new expansion. But I'm using an old map (old save). So I understand the depot won't have all that luscious graphite?
If so, where can I get it?
I understand that there is tons of graphite in the Depot in the new expansion. But I'm using an old map (old save). So I understand the depot won't have all that luscious graphite?
If so, where can I get it?
90
Bugs / Re: 1.1.0.12 Naga Protector - mIrAcLe of black sea
« on: August 03, 2019, 12:12:00 am »
I wish I had the answer. I've seen my Naga use ranged attacks at point blank range repeatedly. Only once have I seen it swipe an enemy with its claw.
Until the third invasion, I didn't even know it had a melee attack!
(Maybe I should have put a higher power core in it. I only put one with 112-116 in there, IIRC.]
Until the third invasion, I didn't even know it had a melee attack!
(Maybe I should have put a higher power core in it. I only put one with 112-116 in there, IIRC.]